UAW Negotiations

[ANTAUS]

I agree. IMO, would they rather have no job if the company crashes and burns because they're not competitive?

 

And honestly I've had people tell me just that, "If I'm going to sink, then the whole company will sink". I deal with unions in a NON union state in other matters and the only pattern I see is selfishness. Me, me me... And honestly if someone doesn't want to work, Don't. When I'm renovating I put things out there for bid, and I can tell you prices have dropped substantially, and I do point out "hey your competitor can do it for this much less, can you match that?"... Let's look around at some of these communities where these factories are at. Look around, there's no reinvestment in the community. Most if not all, are total dumps because of selfishness. They cashed in, lived high in the Hague, and at the end of the day, picked up and moved to retire in FL...I know them, they are my neighbors.

[lquidspine]

When was the last time? '82 & special concessions for Chrysler?

2009 when Ford UAW workers gave over 500 million in concessions before GM and Chrysler gave theirs, GM and Chrysler UAW workers gave more...pattern broke.

[FoMoCobra]

Pattern bargaining: you either believe in it or you don't. Am I to assume, then, that you don't?

 

Or are you going to equivocate and assert that, since GM has LESS debt and LOWER interest costs on that debt, they are MORE in need of concessions than Ford?

 

Or are you going to assert that GM should be given a competitive advantage over Ford for driving themselves into bankruptcy and blaming the union every step of the way?

 

Can you think of ONE juncture in this crisis, over the last ten years, when GM wasn't at the forefront of the "It's the UAW's FAULT!!!!!" brigade??

 

Which company leaked information on the amount of money spent on Viagra for UAW retirees? Ford or GM?

 

GM does not deserve to leverage its extorted wage concessions to weaken Ford's position.

 

This is well said Richard. History has shown Ford's sincere dedication to UAW workers.

 

I'm a little dissapointed that the union votes have gone against the concessions. I feel as though i have no choice but to sell my stock in the company. The option of bancruptcy still looms as the only way for Ford to get parity and reduce its debt. Or, they may consider another equity swap diluting value even further and making a recovery that much harder...

 

Even Ron Gettelfinger is pleading with the UAW to approve concessions: Union Votes Go Against Cuts At Ford

 

The U.A.W.’s president, Ron Gettelfinger, has been urging workers to approve changing their contract, arguing that Ford is still heavily in debt and that workers could end up worse off if they do not agree to the deal. If ratified, the deal gives all hourly workers a $1,000 bonus in March and assigns new products to some plants, in some cases adding jobs.

 

“This is a great agreement, and it protects our membership,” Mr. Gettelfinger said Tuesday on Detroit’s WJR-AM, a radio station. “In my heart, I know that for the men and women who work at Ford and their families that this was the right thing to bring before them at this point in time.”

Edited October 28, 2009 by FoMoCobra

[theoldwizard]

This without any equitable expression of sacrifice from upper management,

Better get all of you facts straight !

 

Check the white collar benefits compared to the UAW. Pretty poor, in comparison. White collar has not had COLA for many, many years. Also check what the pay raises and bonuses are for the past few years. And only a few white collar have any collective bargaining tool !

 

And absolutely no one is looking out for salaried retires. You have to be "healthy" (or are working on a plan to become healthier) in order to get "full" coverage for all of your health care. (No "plan", you pay extra for all deductibles).

 

 

 

Bottom line. Greed exists at all levels. Many Ford UAW workers feel like they have a advantage over their cross town brothers and want to keep it that way. So much for solidarity !

[lquidspine]

This is well said Richard. History has shown Ford's sincere dedication to UAW workers.

 

I'm a little dissapointed that the union votes have gone against the concessions. I feel as though i have no choice but to sell my stock in the company. The option of bancruptcy still looms as the only way for Ford to get parity and reduce its debt. Or, they may consider another equity swap diluting value even further and making a recovery that much harder...

The tentative contract saves no money except for the fact that they can hire an unlimited amount of new workers at entry level wages and benefits.

There are currently over two thousand workers still on indefinite lay-offs, how would this modifications failing be the cause of Ford claiming bankruptcy?

 

 

And absolutely no one is looking out for salaried retires. You have to be "healthy" (or are working on a plan to become healthier) in order to get "full" coverage for all of your health care. (No "plan", you pay extra for all deductibles).

 

 

 

Bottom line. Greed exists at all levels. Many Ford UAW workers feel like they have a advantage over their cross town brothers and want to keep it that way. So much for solidarity !

 

The salaried that are not unionized knew the risks or should have. I am not saying I do not realize how unfairly they are being treated but unfortunately you can not expect union protections in bad times while reaping salaried perks in good times.

 

I personally feel this must be voted down to help our fellow workers that gave up all their rights at GM and Chrysler, the company executives should not expect bankruptcy labor agreements when they are unwilling to accept bankruptcy pay and compensation to help ensure things turn around.

[RangerM]

I personally feel this must be voted down to help our fellow workers that gave up all their rights at GM and Chrysler, the company executives should not expect bankruptcy labor agreements when they are unwilling to accept bankruptcy pay and compensation to help ensure things turn around.

 

If you work for Ford, how are those at GM and Chrysler your fellow workers? Is your loyalty to your employer or your competitor?

[ausrutherford]

The winner of the losers is still loser. Why not compare with Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, or even Mitsubishi. Forget about fusion and milan, which were made by Mexican.

 

But still engineered and designed in Dearborn.

[Harley Lover]

Pattern bargaining: you either believe in it or you don't. Am I to assume, then, that you don't?

 

Or are you going to equivocate and assert that, since GM has LESS debt and LOWER interest costs on that debt, they are MORE in need of concessions than Ford?

 

Or are you going to assert that GM should be given a competitive advantage over Ford for driving themselves into bankruptcy and blaming the union every step of the way?

 

Can you think of ONE juncture in this crisis, over the last ten years, when GM wasn't at the forefront of the "It's the UAW's FAULT!!!!!" brigade??

 

Which company leaked information on the amount of money spent on Viagra for UAW retirees? Ford or GM?

 

GM does not deserve to leverage its extorted wage concessions to weaken Ford's position.

Excellent.

 

What union members need to realize is that there is palpable anger in the general public over this. It's at Tea Party levels, from what I can observe. Unfortunately, I think most of the union members with this mindset are far too wrapped up in their mentality to be able to objectively view the big picture.

 

Frankly, when I read the usual us vs. them class warfare stuff as posted earlier in the thread, along with the claims of Ford's profits from last quarter (it takes only just a little understanding of finance to realize the flaw of that thought process), I get very discouraged. The rank and file has been failed by its local leadership, because they don't realize how tenous Ford's position is, and they seem to have no cognition of how Ford is competitively hamstrung by the BK's of GM and Chrysler, who got to write off debt and bad assets. It's just a big bowl of bad right now.

 

The one hope is Mullaly, who has a very positive track record with unions going back to his Boeing days. I hope he can lead everyone to a solution.

[Pioneer]

Ford will go bankrupt next year. Seems that Obama will replace Alan Mulally very soon.

 

Then there will be parity between the three automakers.

[Pioneer]

I do think the workers at Ford deserve more money than GM and Chrysler

workers if the quality of the product remains higher.

 

The workers are not asking for more money.

[NickF1011]

The winner of the losers is still loser. Why not compare with Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, or even Mitsubishi. Forget about fusion and milan, which were made by Mexican.

 

Okay, forget the Fusion and Milan. Pick any of the other several dozen average-or-higher quality models Ford builds in the U.S. and Canada. :yup:

[Pioneer]

What union members need to realize is that there is palpable anger in the general public over this

 

And, what the general public needs to realise, is that there is anger in the UAW as well. Anger at executive pay. Anger at no product commitments. Anger that we have sacrificed raises, bonuses, and COLA to pay for healthcare and retirement while management is still getting theirs and driving around in free cars with insurance provided.

[NickF1011]

And, what the general public needs to realise, is that there is anger in the UAW as well. Anger at executive pay. Anger at no product commitments. Anger that we have sacrificed raises, bonuses, and COLA to pay for healthcare and retirement while management is still getting theirs and driving around in free cars with insurance provided.

 

Welcome to the American business model.

[FordBuyer]

The workers are not asking for more money.

 

I don't think this agreement not passing has to be a major setback for company where it leads to bankruptcy. I don't see where this agreement saves Ford significant money. The last concessions only saved Ford $500 million/year and this one much less. Where I think it could be a setback is if Ford managment gets vindictive and starts offshoring more product and doesn't uphold the promises it has made recently. Ford just needs to shrug its shoulders, and keep on with its laser focus as if nothing happened. Hopefully Ford will not let the setback take its eye off the ball. Just keep on doing what you are doing, and if anything try that much harder since your rivals have a small advantage now in some ways, but Ford has the big advantage in that they are INDEPENDENT and further along in their plan which has meant much better quality, transaction prices, and residual value all of which shows up in balance sheet. FORD DOESN'T NEED A DISGRUNTLED WORKFORCE RIGHT NOW. Treat the workers with respect no matter how they vote and keep on consistently.

[NickF1011]

Ford just needs to shrug its shoulders, and keep on with its laser focus

 

Okay, where is it?

[RangerM]

......while management is still getting theirs and driving around in free cars with insurance provided.

I suppose the company could take everything away, and end up like Bank of America who can't find a CEO willing to take the job.

 

Maybe they could get Rattner in there?

[NickF1011]

I suppose the company could take everything away, and end up like Bank of America who can't find a CEO willing to take the job.

 

Maybe they could get Rattner in there?

 

I hear Rick Wagoner is looking for a job.

[Pioneer]

I hear Rick Wagoner is looking for a job.

 

:lol:

[FordBuyer]

And, what the general public needs to realise, is that there is anger in the UAW as well. Anger at executive pay. Anger at no product commitments. Anger that we have sacrificed raises, bonuses, and COLA to pay for healthcare and retirement while management is still getting theirs and driving around in free cars with insurance provided.

 

Not all true. Ford operates a shuttle between the buildings in Dearborn as salaried workers can no longer just hop in company car. Those days are gone. Also no more B plan lots for salaried employees. Also no more healthcare once you go on Medicare. Further, the guys who drive those test mules work for Manpower and not Ford directly. They make $9/hour for driving tons of miles on those mules. They also have to write up reports on any results from their driving experiences. And the guys who drive Ford shuttles are paid not much more than minimum wage.

[Pioneer]

I suppose the company could take everything away, and end up like Bank of America who can't find a CEO willing to take the job.

 

 

You don't think a Superintendent making $150,000+ can't afford a car? Hell, two actually. They get two a year, one can be replaced after 6 months. Same with a Plant Manager making $200,000+. They get two vehicles also.

[NickF1011]

You don't think a Superintendent making $150,000+ can't afford a car? Hell, two actually. They get two a year, one can be replaced after 6 months. Same with a Plant Manager making $200,000+. They get two vehicles also.

 

It's called a perk. Would it make you feel better if they just gave them equivalent of a year's worth of car payments in salary instead? I don't complain about our CEO having a private jet to hop around the world in. It's a perk of his position. :shrug:

[Pioneer]

It's called a perk. Would it make you feel better if they just gave them equivalent of a year's worth of car payments in salary instead? I don't complain about our CEO having a private jet to hop around the world in. It's a perk of his position. :shrug:

 

The UAW has been asked to give up their perks as well. This is where parity comes into play.

[RangerM]

You don't think a Superintendent making $150,000+ can't afford a car? Hell, two actually. They get two a year, one can be replaced after 6 months. Same with a Plant Manager making $200,000+. They get two vehicles also.

I admit I don't know what a Superintendent does (in his work), or a Plant Manager for that matter, but I know the company would not be paying it unless the higher-ups believed that is what it takes to attract the kind of people that the company needs in those (presumably important) positions.

 

I'm not going to get into a class warfare argument save this......

 

One of the fringe benefits of being a "worker" (for lack of a better term) is that the moment your day ends, you can forget about work. Most upper-level management are on the job even when they're home. They don't get to forget about work, simply because the workday has ended.

 

I know that's true (for me) at my company, anyway.

[NickF1011]

The UAW has been asked to give up their perks as well. This is where parity comes into play.

 

There is no parity between upper management and the rank-and-file. Never has been, never will be. That's business.

[Eel]

The UAW is no longer an honest broker. Since they own parts of the competition (GM / Chrysler) they may well be hoping that Ford fails and has to take a government bailout. Then, they can take a part of Ford and screw the stockholder as they and the government did with the competition.

 

This irresponsible attitude will have a negative effect upon anyone thinking of buying either Ford stock or a Ford vehicle. Ford should ,as soon as contractually possible, move their production to the south, Mexico or some other place that would like to have some excellent jobs.