Comparison review: Minivans vs. crossovers

[Deanh]

I'll chime in with a problem I noticed with Stow 'n Go (having spent seat time in a current generation and last generation T&C)...

The seats were outrageously uncomfortable compared to most other "modern" minivans I've been in (Odyssey, Sienna, and Monterey/Freestar) [yes, the seats in the Freestar were MUCH nicer].

 

I get that for most families the second and third row seats will be for kids only, who aren't as concerned with comfort, but if you're taking friends or older family members out for a night, the ChryCo seats get very old very quick. Short seating surface, not nearly enough coushin on the bottom, and no lateral support.

meanwhile the NBA players in the middle row seats are taking a RECLINED nap.....

[aneekr]

DC Car Examiner has kids?

 

No?

 

Then why does his opinion on CUVs and minivans matter?

 

Sorry DC, that's my minimum requirement for anyone pontificating about family vehicles for money: they need to be used by families to be properly evaluated. Otherwise, you might as well ask me to evaluate the suitability of surgical tools for simple chores around the house. Or ask me to evaluate the suitability of a Ferrari for my occasional trip to the grocery store 4 blocks away.

So the only legitimate reviews of "family-friendly" vehicles are those like MotherProof's?

[RichardJensen]

So the only legitimate reviews of "family-friendly" vehicles are those like MotherProof's?

It's a darn sight better than most of the reviews of that thing.

[Deanh]

so here begs a question, what do Sean Kemp and Travis Henry drive?

[Anthony]

Jeez, lay off the guy and let him write his articles. Don't like them or think he can't write? Then don't waste your time reading them. There's plenty of armchair journalists on this site that I regularly skip over without the need to berate them on their supposedly lack of knowledge towards a product.

[RichardJensen]

He's getting paid for his work.

[Anthony]

He's getting paid for his work.

 

So you have to read it because he is getting paid? You must spend a lot in magazine subscriptions.

[RichardJensen]

So you have to read it because he is getting paid? You must spend a lot in magazine subscriptions.

Don't understand your point.

 

The guy is providing a service for which he gets paid. I don't happen to think that he's adequately qualified for all that he's bit off for himself.

 

How is that any different than criticism of, oh, say, Willie Randolph.

[Anthony]

Don't understand your point.

 

The guy is providing a service for which he gets paid. I don't happen to think that he's adequately qualified for all that he's bit off for himself.

 

How is that any different than criticism of, oh, say, Willie Randolph.

 

Does it really matter whether he gets paid or not, or is that just an excuse to belittle a him? (and trust me, I know how examiner.com does their freelance payscale....he very well might not be getting paid at all). How about cutting him a little slack and value his opinion just for what it is...an opinion based on his time behind the wheel of vehicles. Debate his findings, or just dismiss them without the drama.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Intrepidatious

[RichardJensen]

Does it really matter whether he gets paid or not, or is that just an excuse to belittle a him? (and trust me, I know how examiner.com does their freelance payscale....he very well might not be getting paid at all). How about cutting him a little slack and value his opinion just for what it is...an opinion based on his time behind the wheel of vehicles. Debate his findings, or just dismiss them without the drama.

Does it matter whether he gets paid?

 

Yes.

[DC Car Examiner]

Don't understand your point.

 

The guy is providing a service for which he gets paid. I don't happen to think that he's adequately qualified for all that he's bit off for himself.

 

How is that any different than criticism of, oh, say, Willie Randolph.

 

Actually, what you're saying is that I'm being paid (a fairly small amount) to work in a field that you already said you think shouldn't exist: someone who reviews more cars than the type they would actually own. So you don't consider anyone qualified.

[DC Car Examiner]

Fifth place: Ford Flex

 

 

Yesterday's review of the Chevrolet Traverse described it as the closest SUV to a minivan, for it beat out every other crossover's interior space. The Traverse certainly has much more room than this Ford Flex, which despite its name, size, and boxy shape has among the lowest cargo volumes of any midsize SUV.

 

Then why would the Flex, which isn't as good at being a minivan as the Traverse yet costs more, outrank it in this comparison?

 

Continued at link:

http://www.examiner.com/x-1017-DC-Car-Exam...ers-fifth-place

[PREMiERdrum]

With the group's highest price – around $32,000 out-the-door after generous discounts – and by far its lowest cargo capacity, it will not work for many minivan customers, which no doubt helps explain its consistently low sales. But for someone wanting a three-row family car that feels like something more, the Flex's strong points may well make up for reduced utility and extra cost.

 

So, with similar equipment, which of the Flex's alternatives are a better value?

[RichardJensen]

Actually, what you're saying is that I'm being paid (a fairly small amount) to work in a field that you already said you think shouldn't exist: someone who reviews more cars than the type they would actually own. So you don't consider anyone qualified.

Nah.

 

As I said, I like the guys at Road & Track.

 

But outside of that, yeah, the segment is about as useful as hip pockets on shirts.

 

I mean hey, I'm all for you making as much money as you can doing this, shoot, we let you post your articles here, right? But cripes. Don't act as though a week with a car and a copy of the Chicago Style Manual makes you someone to be taken seriously. -Especially- when it comes to a car as purpose-built as a minivan.

[chucky2]

DC Car Examiner- Liked the review, and the comparison you're doing between the two types of vehicles. I think it's very interesting to see how these non-minivan alternatives stack up against minivans.

 

Thanks for providing the info!

 

Chuck

[rmc523]

With the group's highest price – around $32,000 out-the-door after generous discounts – and by far its lowest cargo capacity, it will not work for many minivan customers, which no doubt helps explain its consistently low sales.

 

I've got no idea where you came up with that number - Flex starts in the mid $28K range.

 

 

 

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It seems to me like this comparison is asking "what's a better minivan: A minivan or a crossover?"

[DC Car Examiner]

I've got no idea where you came up with that number - Flex starts in the mid $28K range.

 

 

 

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It seems to me like this comparison is asking "what's a better minivan: A minivan or a crossover?"

 

That's exactly what it's saying, because too many people have the entirely mistaken impression that the competition is even close.

 

And there is nothing useful about comparing prices by just looking at base vs. base, though the Flex would still be high in that metric as well.

[DC Car Examiner]

So, with similar equipment, which of the Flex's alternatives are a better value?

 

With similar equipment, the estimated transaction prices came out as:

 

Chevrolet Traverse: $31.5k

Dodge Grand Caravan: $28k

Ford Flex: $32k

Honda Odyssey: $30k

Kia Sedona: $25k

Toyota Sienna: $27k

 

So, among these particular alternatives, all of them.

[fordmantpw]

...by far its lowest cargo capacity, it will not work for many minivan customers...

 

Look Pioneer, someone agrees with you!

 

But for someone wanting a three-row family car that feels like something more, the Flex's strong points may well make up for reduced utility and extra cost.

 

That is where Ford has gone with the Flex, which is why we own one. It works extremely well for us with our 3 kids (6.5, 4, 1), but we don't take a lot of extended trips with it. For the umpteenth time...it ain't no minivan folks!

[FordBuyer]

I've got no idea where you came up with that number - Flex starts in the mid $28K range.

 

 

 

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It seems to me like this comparison is asking "what's a better minivan: A minivan or a crossover?"

 

I just knew he was going to put the Flex into next to last place. I have a buddy with a Chrysler Town and Country and it is a nice minivan and it has lots of room and Stow and Go seats. But sitting in rear seats like I have done is horrible. The seats are very narrow, the seat restraints are clumsy, and you feel like you are going to tip over in seat. You get a very uncomfortable feeling. Many of the trim parts are poor quality plastic and fall off. Sitting in back is a nightmare. The sliding rear doors are nice but clumsy and you can tell minivans have lots of niggly problems with doors as they age. They need a lot of maintenance. IMO, if you have lots of kids and carry lots of bulky things often and need every squared inch of space, a minivan is nice. But if you don't carry lots of things often, then a Flex is so much more comfortable to ride in and more enjoybable to drive with far less maintenance and better quality.

[FordBuyer]

With similar equipment, the estimated transaction prices came out as:

 

Chevrolet Traverse: $31.5k

Dodge Grand Caravan: $28k

Ford Flex: $32k

Honda Odyssey: $30k

Kia Sedona: $25k

Toyota Sienna: $27k

 

So, among these particular alternatives, all of them.

 

I bet the Honda or Toyota minvan will be first and Sedona third with Caravan fourth. I bet you also that nothing will be said about the Sienna's quality issues. One issue after another. As far as gas mileage, my buddy has never gotten more than 22mpg highway on his with him now pushing 40,000 miles. He likes his van, but he has never sat in the back seat like I have. Again, it's a Chrysler Town and Country with most options and Stow and Go seats. Great if you are a florist delivering flowers, but for most people a lot of wasted space with plastic trim parts all over, big giant, clumsy doors, and tippy feeling, narrow rear seats inadequate for passenger comfort.

[FordBuyer]

That's exactly what it's saying, because too many people have the entirely mistaken impression that the competition is even close.

 

And there is nothing useful about comparing prices by just looking at base vs. base, though the Flex would still be high in that metric as well.

 

You are comparing apples and oranges. The CUV is meant to replace the SUV, not the minivan. Minivans are a completely different animal. If reviewer preferred CUV's and had no use for minivan, then CUV's would be rated higher. If reviewer loves minivans and has use for one, then a CUV is going to be sneered at in any comparison. If you are a big dog lover, a hatchback would probably appeal to you over a sedan as sedan would be rather useless. Personal preference.

[NickF1011]

You are comparing apples and oranges. The CUV is meant to replace the SUV, not the minivan. Minivans are a completely different animal. If reviewer preferred CUV's and had no use for minivan, then CUV's would be rated higher. If reviewer loves minivans and has use for one, then a CUV is going to be sneered at in any comparison. If you are a big dog lover, a hatchback would probably appeal to you over a sedan as sedan would be rather useless. Personal preference.

 

One way to look at it also: Minivans were designed as the alternate to the station wagon. SUV's became popular as the alternate to minivans. CUV's are now becoming popular as an alternate to SUV's. So, are CUV's better than station wagons?

[silvrsvt]

So, are CUV's better than station wagons?

 

I think we came full circle! LOL

[Ralph Greene]

I mostly agree with him. I closely evaluated the Flex for my use. REPEAT....for my use....and my kids are grown and gone.

 

It drove great, had all the qualities the DC Examiner noted. Was a great engineering achievement, etc. Very tight solid feeling.

 

However....It didn't seem to me to have much roon in it for hauling stuff....compared to it's external size and weight. If you don't need the internal room for hauling expensive bikes securely, camping stuff, weeks of stuff for long vacations, just want a big boxy sedan replacement....it's about perfect I think. But some people really need the space of a mini van. Some don't.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Ralph Greene