PREMiERdrum Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 (edited) In a rather bizarre instance, a driver reportedly began to experience unintended acceleration from his Toyota Avalon and was able to drive the car to a nearby dealer with the vehicle still displaying wide open throttle, despite having the floormat removed. Dealer techs witnessed the problem and have reportedly offered to repair the vehicle free of charge.This incident was apparently not the first for the driver, either, who had been to the dealer before about the problem. The first time the unintended acceleration occurred, the driver was able to slow the vehicle with the brakes and switch the vehicle into neutral – where the engine continued to hit maximum rpms. At the time of the first incident, dealer diagnostics revealed no problems in the computer. LINK - Left Lane News So it's not the floormat? It's a problem in the ECU? Man, I only said that 6 months ago... Edited January 16, 2010 by PREMiERdrum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtstakelin Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Gives a whole new meaning to "Moving Forward" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 "Dealer techs witnessed the problem and have reportedly offered to repair the vehicle free of charge." The techs are going to repair it for free? Is this the new Toyota? "you guys fix it on your own time." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 How do they fix it without knowing what causes it? Or does Toyota know and is not saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Gives a whole new meaning to "Moving Forward" I guess they were telling us the whole time! How do they fix it without knowing what causes it? Or does Toyota know and is not saying? I'd say the second question is true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateX Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 I believe that there are people at Toyota that know exactly what is happening with these runaway cars. Lets assume that there is a substantial design problem with the throttle assembly that requires a new throttle pedal assembly and perhaps as a knock on effect a new computer with an improved redundant interface to the throttle pedal assembly. First you have engineer these parts, manufacture 4 million of them and then schedule 4 million customers to have these parts replaced. This effort could easily take a year before they start replacing parts and several years before they have completed the process. Now imagine if they were to come clean on this bearing in mind that this probably affects all the cars currently sitting on Toyota lots and probably cars that will be manufactured for the next year. Every Toyota dealership in the country would become a ghost town and the only people who would dare enter them are the angry existing customers who are demanding a refund on their cars. This happened 40 years ago to Ford with the Pinto and exploding gas tank and it was not pretty. Compared to the Ford cruise control issue, this is huge. The solution for Ford was to install a fusible link in-line connector that took 5 minutes to install and cost probably about a dollar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 I believe that there are people at Toyota that know exactly what is happening with these runaway cars. Lets assume that there is a substantial design problem with the throttle assembly that requires a new throttle pedal assembly and perhaps as a knock on effect a new computer with an improved redundant interface to the throttle pedal assembly. First you have engineer these parts, manufacture 4 million of them and then schedule 4 million customers to have these parts replaced. This effort could easily take a year before they start replacing parts and several years before they have completed the process. Now imagine if they were to come clean on this bearing in mind that this probably affects all the cars currently sitting on Toyota lots and probably cars that will be manufactured for the next year. Every Toyota dealership in the country would become a ghost town and the only people who would dare enter them are the angry existing customers who are demanding a refund on their cars. This happened 40 years ago to Ford with the Pinto and exploding gas tank and it was not pretty. Compared to the Ford cruise control issue, this is huge. The solution for Ford was to install a fusible link in-line connector that took 5 minutes to install and cost probably about a dollar. I thought Pinto sales stayed strong through the end, even after repeated scandals? There was no significant movement away from the Explorer after Firestone, from the Honda CR-V after catching fire, or various other remembered and since-forgotten scandals. I don't foresee any appreciable reduction in Toyota sales that can be attributed to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggoodin Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Toyota isn't the only ones with drive by wire. Its a fairly new mainstream feature on cars, I'm sure we haven't heard the last of computer problems with drive by wire in all cars that utilize it. I've had the throttle stuck on a 2002 Lancer. On that I could pull up the pedal with the tip of my shoe and fix it without incident (the throttle cable was laying against the valve cover and got sticky inside because it was too hot). My old bike had dual throttle cables (Kawi ZX7) and the close cable decided to stick one day, but since it was mechanically connected all I had to do was twist the throttle back. Are we over engineered into dangerous situations without throttle cables? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) I believe that there are people at Toyota that know exactly what is happening with these runaway cars. Lets assume that there is a substantial design problem with the throttle assembly that requires a new throttle pedal assembly and perhaps as a knock on effect a new computer with an improved redundant interface to the throttle pedal assembly. First you have engineer these parts, manufacture 4 million of them and then schedule 4 million customers to have these parts replaced. This effort could easily take a year before they start replacing parts and several years before they have completed the process. Now imagine if they were to come clean on this bearing in mind that this probably affects all the cars currently sitting on Toyota lots and probably cars that will be manufactured for the next year. Every Toyota dealership in the country would become a ghost town and the only people who would dare enter them are the angry existing customers who are demanding a refund on their cars. This happened 40 years ago to Ford with the Pinto and exploding gas tank and it was not pretty. Compared to the Ford cruise control issue, this is huge. The solution for Ford was to install a fusible link in-line connector that took 5 minutes to install and cost probably about a dollar. Toyota has no intention of spending that much money on this defect. Their plan is to remove the existing accelerator pedals, saw the bottom off and reinstall them. Second step is to simply reflash the PCM to cut engine power if the driver hits the brake pedal while the throttle is (Theoreticaly) wide open. Edited January 17, 2010 by F250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 My Toyota Haiku: Moving you forward With a terrifying speed Oh what a feeling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToBeHuman Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 This story seems huge and you can only find it on a couple of websites. HAS TOYOTA PAID OFF ALL THE BIG NEWS OUTLETS REGARDING THIS SUDDEN UNINTENDED ACCELERATION ISSUE ALREADY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 This story seems huge and you can only find it on a couple of websites. HAS TOYOTA PAID OFF ALL THE BIG NEWS OUTLETS REGARDING THIS SUDDEN UNINTENDED ACCELERATION ISSUE ALREADY? Absolutely untrue. I googled "Toyota acceleration" and got several pages of results. It's been covered by ABC, Business Week and the LA Times to name a few. There will be more coverage when more is known, as a news story it's in limbo, I expect something to break eventually. Data point to Toyota's throttles, not floor matsAmid widening concern over acceleration events, Toyota has cited 'floor mat entrapment.' But reports point to another potential cause: the electronic throttles that have replaced mechanical systems. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyo...0,5254584.story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share Posted January 17, 2010 I thought Pinto sales stayed strong through the end, even after repeated scandals? There was no significant movement away from the Explorer after Firestone, from the Honda CR-V after catching fire, or various other remembered and since-forgotten scandals. I don't foresee any appreciable reduction in Toyota sales that can be attributed to this. Really? That marked the beginning-of-the-end for the Explorer. It was (and still is) the butt of many jokes thanks to the recall. This has been, and will continue to be, damaging to Toyota's reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToBeHuman Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Absolutely untrue. I googled "Toyota acceleration" and got several pages of results. It's been covered by ABC, Business Week and the LA Times to name a few. There will be more coverage when more is known, as a news story it's in limbo, I expect something to break eventually. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyo...0,5254584.story I'm talking about this latest development of the sudden acceleration not being caused by a floor mat. I know the California CHP death and the floor mat recall has been covered heavily. This confirmed case of unintended acceleration not being caused by a floor mat is not showing up on any of the big news sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 I'm talking about this latest development of the sudden acceleration not being caused by a floor mat. I know the California CHP death and the floor mat recall has been covered heavily. This confirmed case of unintended acceleration not being caused by a floor mat is not showing up on any of the big news sites. As I posted above........some people are already aware of what the problem probably is. But reports point to another potential cause: the electronic throttles that have replaced mechanical systems. You're talking about one case (that didn't have the floor mats).....so far. Give it some time, after similar problems show up it will be picked up in the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Really? That marked the beginning-of-the-end for the Explorer. It was (and still is) the butt of many jokes thanks to the recall. This has been, and will continue to be, damaging to Toyota's reputation. Firestone didn't kill the Explorer. The crossover killed the Explorer, and its truck-based competitors all fell with it. The Explorer had a better sales year right after the scandal than right before it -- 433,000 in 2002. People may have joked about the tires, but they didn't stop buying Explorers until the Honda Pilot ushered in a class of car that was more in line with what Explorer buyers actually wanted: cars, not trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97svtgoin05gt Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 I surely hope that not many more Toyota customer are injured or god forbid killed by this issue. This thing could really end up costing them huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Firestone didn't kill the Explorer. The crossover killed the Explorer, and its truck-based competitors all fell with it. The Explorer had a better sales year right after the scandal than right before it -- 433,000 in 2002. People may have joked about the tires, but they didn't stop buying Explorers until the Honda Pilot ushered in a class of car that was more in line with what Explorer buyers actually wanted: cars, not trucks. Actually the first mid size was the Toyota Highlander not the Honda Pilot , it had the same wheel base (size) and was far more popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Actually the first mid size was the Toyota Highlander not the Honda Pilot , it had the same wheel base (size) and was far more popular. But neither one of them have sold as well as the Explorer did in its heyday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 But neither one of them have sold as well as the Explorer did in its heyday... Far too many competitors on the market now for that to be possible. Had a vehicle like the Highlander or Pilot existed during the Explorer's heyday, it could have been given a run for its money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I surely hope that not many more Toyota customer are injured or god forbid killed by this issue. + 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Far too many competitors on the market now for that to be possible. Had a vehicle like the Highlander or Pilot existed during the Explorer's heyday, it could have been given a run for its money. The Explorer still sold 400K units in 2002 or so...I don't think either the Pilot or Highlander have broken 150K units sold in a year...ever...but I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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