So, what will the new Lincoln line-up look like?

[blazerdude20]

Thats because they don't want people to say...oh its a Hyundai! If you ever notice that people who buy these cars call them a BMW, Mercedes, Caddy etc..not 3 series, C series or CTS

 

 

im still sticking by my belief that hyundai plans to launch genesis as a seperate luxury brand similar to lexus, lincoln, etc.

[twintornados]

im still sticking by my belief that hyundai plans to launch genesis as a seperate luxury brand similar to lexus, lincoln, etc.

I don't believe that Kia/Hyundai will attempt that right now in the current market place in North America....they may actually try it in China first to gauge the reception....who'd thunk that China would be the new "proving grounds" for auto ideas.....

[PREMiERdrum]

I don't believe that Kia/Hyundai will attempt that right now in the current market place in North America....they may actually try it in China first to gauge the reception....who'd thunk that China would be the new "proving grounds" for auto ideas.....

 

It was considered, then it was paired down to a "showroom-within-a-showroom" concept, which eventually was watered down even further. I've heard, though, that once the Equus hits the dealers sometime next year, that there will be seperate areas just for the Genesis Sedan and Equus... I'm sure it will still be in eyeshot of the Accent though!

 

As an aside, this little rant points out to me again just how silly the naming of the Genesis Sedan and Genesis Coupe are. The cars, from a consumer standpoint, couldn't have less to do with eachother.

[rmc523]

im still sticking by my belief that hyundai plans to launch genesis as a seperate luxury brand similar to lexus, lincoln, etc.

 

If they want the vehicles to be taken seriously in the luxury marketplace, IMO they'd have to do that, or something like that, but as twintornadoes said, I don't think they'll do that just yet.

[2005Explorer]

If they want the vehicles to be taken seriously in the luxury marketplace, IMO they'd have to do that, or something like that, but as twintornadoes said, I don't think they'll do that just yet.

 

Ford has the same issue with Lincoln. No one takes Lincoln seriously in the luxury marketplace. Introducing all of these new Lincolns including compact re-badges will do nothing to help with Lincoln's current reputation problem. Sure you can go ahead and tell me that these little Lincolns will be completely unique vehicles, but we all know the volume and profit margins are not there to support the engineering cost. The little Lincolns will be vehicles that should have been Mercuries.

 

Lincoln is an old person's brand. Small sporty Lincolns that differ very slightly from their Ford counterparts other then a much higher price will fail miserably in the market place. Mercury could have had a place in the line and allowed Ford to push Lincoln higher, but instead we get a Lincoln that is going to try to cover the entire compact to full size car and utility range.

 

Maybe I am wrong, but it's not going to work and will just drive the Lincoln brand lower then it already is.

[nelsonlu]

It feels really tacked on. Its performance will be a step down from the base model, whereas the Fusion has the benefit of the 2.5 being more anemic (albeit, sufficient and competitive for a 4-cyl, and likely the engine I'd go for if I ever bought a midsize).

 

I have never driven (except on a one-day service rental of a Flex and a test drive of the Taurus) a vehicle with the MKZ's 3.5 V6, but when I had the 3.0 V6 Fusion SEL for a week for a trip last year, the Hybrid that I have seemed substantially more powerful due to the torque curve despite the lower raw HP numbers. I don't think that a MKZ Hybrid is going to be, in real terms, underpowered compared to the regular 3.5 V6.

[nelsonlu]

As an aside, this little rant points out to me again just how silly the naming of the Genesis Sedan and Genesis Coupe are. The cars, from a consumer standpoint, couldn't have less to do with eachother.

 

Well, no worse than the Accord and Accord Coupe...

 

In any case, the Genesis seems to be genius naming-wise when compared to the Equus... I still think the Equus brings unsavory images to mind...

[PREMiERdrum]

Well, no worse than the Accord and Accord Coupe...

 

What??? The Accord sedan and coupe share styling, interiors, and are targeted the the same market (albeit 1 has 4 doors, the other has 2).

 

The Genesis sedan is a large, entry-level luxury sedan aimed at Mercedes and BMW shoppers. The Genesis Coupe is a sports coupe with boy-racer styling aimed at the traditional pony cars. Your comparison doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[quote

In any case, the Genesis seems to be genius naming-wise when compared to the Equus... I still think the Equus brings unsavory images to mind...

 

I'll agree with you here. If I were to overhear someone saying "Equus" at the grocery store, I'd instinctively respond "God bless you" and offer them a tissue.

[rmc523]

Ford has the same issue with Lincoln. No one takes Lincoln seriously in the luxury marketplace. Introducing all of these new Lincolns including compact re-badges will do nothing to help with Lincoln's current reputation problem. Sure you can go ahead and tell me that these little Lincolns will be completely unique vehicles, but we all know the volume and profit margins are not there to support the engineering cost. The little Lincolns will be vehicles that should have been Mercuries.

 

Lincoln is an old person's brand. Small sporty Lincolns that differ very slightly from their Ford counterparts other then a much higher price will fail miserably in the market place. Mercury could have had a place in the line and allowed Ford to push Lincoln higher, but instead we get a Lincoln that is going to try to cover the entire compact to full size car and utility range.

 

Maybe I am wrong, but it's not going to work and will just drive the Lincoln brand lower then it already is.

 

Listen, I'm not completely sold on the idea of a compact Lincoln right now either - outside of perhaps a small CUV, I don't think the brand is ready for that, but that's what appears to be in the pipeline, so I/we can at least hope for a best case scenario.

[nelsonlu]

What??? The Accord sedan and coupe share styling, interiors, and are targeted the the same market (albeit 1 has 4 doors, the other has 2).

 

The Genesis sedan is a large, entry-level luxury sedan aimed at Mercedes and BMW shoppers. The Genesis Coupe is a sports coupe with boy-racer styling aimed at the traditional pony cars. Your comparison doesn't make any sense at all.

 

But utility-wise, there is little shared between the Accord sedan and coupe. The sedan, in fact, is classified as a large car by the EPA (at 106 cubic feet of interior space) and the coupe classified as a compact car (at 93 cubic feet). The difference is smaller than, but not much smaller than,t he difference between the Genesis sedan and coupe.

[PREMiERdrum]

Listen, I'm not completely sold on the idea of a compact Lincoln right now either - outside of perhaps a small CUV, I don't think the brand is ready for that, but that's what appears to be in the pipeline, so I/we can at least hope for a best case scenario.

 

I hated the idea at first, and I'm still not happy about it, but I keep thinking back to the original TT as an example of how something like this should be done. Around here, at least, Audis were pretty rare sights until the TT came along. I think that the spark that ignited Audi's growth in the last 10 years or so may have been that little C-segment Beetle-based coupe and convertible. A Focus based coupe and/or convertible with memorable styling could be a sleeper hit.

 

Lincoln may benefit here by their weak brand image. They are kind of a blank slate right now, and once the product is there it shouldn't be too hard for the marketing wizards to get a new image out there.

[PREMiERdrum]

But utility-wise, there is little shared between the Accord sedan and coupe. The sedan, in fact, is classified as a large car by the EPA (at 106 cubic feet of interior space) and the coupe classified as a compact car (at 93 cubic feet). The difference is smaller than, but not much smaller than,t he difference between the Genesis sedan and coupe.

 

From an engineering standpoint you're 100% correct. From a customer's perspective, though, it's a different situation. Park an Accord sedan and coupe next to each other, and most consumers would tell you that they're closely related. Park a Genesis sedan and coupe next to eachother and I wouldn't expect your average consumer to know that they're related at all.

[2b2]

I hated the idea at first, and I'm still not happy about it, but I keep thinking back to the original TT as an example of how something like this should be done. Around here, at least, Audis were pretty rare sights until the TT came along. I think that the spark that ignited Audi's growth in the last 10 years or so may have been that little C-segment Beetle-based coupe and convertible. A Focus based coupe and/or convertible with memorable styling could be a sleeper hit.

 

Lincoln may benefit here by their weak brand image. They are kind of a blank slate right now, and once the product is there it shouldn't be too hard for the marketing wizards to get a new image out there.

guess I posted this in the wrong thread

...& a contrarian thought I posted elsewhere semi-seriously(?)

(partly cuz another Wescoent post mentioned the Focus-RS drivetrain for the Lincoln)

 

kinda thinking with the MKG/KuGa to handle the need for more space,

a mini-hotrod might not be a bad idea - even tho the the bottomline might not support that

[630land]

"Lincoln needs to go downmarket to cover loss of Mercury"

 

Umm, I think Ford will cover the 0.8% market share just fine. Anyone who still thinks Fords needs "a brand for [certain people] to buy so they can't say they have a Ford"' is utterly stupid.

[atvman]

Lincoln doesn't have to have unique platforms if the cars are differentiated enough. The suspension pieces on each platform can be different from their Ford siblings, which would give the cars a different feel. Below is what I would do if I were in charge.

 

Cars:

Compact Sedan/Hatch - Based on new Focus platform, 1.6L EB standard, 2.0L EB, hybrid, and AWD all optional.

Midsize Sedan - Based on new Fusion/Mondeo platform. 2.0L EB standard, 3.5L EB, AWD, and hybrid optional.

Sports Sedan/Coupe - Shared RWD architecture with Mustang and AUS Falcon. 2.0L EB standard, 3.5L EB optional, 5.0L TT in SVT model. 6spd manuals standard, DCTs optional.

Fullsize Sedan - Based on stretched Mondeo/Fusion platform. 2.0L EB Standard, 3.5L EB and AWD optional.

 

SUVS:

Compact - Based on Kuga/Escape, 1.6L EB standard, 2.0L EB and Hybrid optional.

Midsize - Midsize sedan based, 2.0L EB Standard and 3.5L EB Optional.

Fullsize - Explorer based, 3.5L EB Standard.

Navigator - More shared components with F150 so that it can be built on the same assembly line, 3.5L EB and 6.2L V8 available, needs to be brought upmarket with class leading dynamics, features, and quality.

[bzcat]

MB is bringing the B-Class here...

 

Which is a C-segment car. The B-segment Mercedes is the A-Class.

 

In the short term, this is what Lincoln should offer:

C-segment

MKC (Focus based sedan)

MKG (Escape based SUV)

 

C/D-segment

MKZ (Fusion based sedan)

MKX (Edge based SUV)

 

D-segment

MKS (Taurus based sedan)

MKT (Flex/Explore based SUV)

 

Large SUV

Navigator

Navigator L

 

In the long term, Lincoln needs some RWD cars

 

C-semgnet

MKC/MKG can stay FWD C platform (with AWD optional obviously) - 2.0T should be the standard engine across the board.

 

C/D-segment

MKZ --> replace with something RWD based on the next Mustang platform. Target (size/price/performance) should be Infiniti G. 2.0T base engine, maybe 2.5T, and 3.5T.

MKR --> 2 door coupe/4 door fastback version of MKZ... ("Lincoln Mustang" if you will... aimed directly at G37/335i/S5 etc)

MKX can stay FWD C/D platform (Edge)

 

D-segment

MKS --> replace with LWB version of the Mustang platform (possibily shared chassis with Ford Falcon). Target should be Infiniti M. 3.5T in various boost level from 300 hp to 400 hp.

MKT can stay FWD (Taurus/Flex/Explorer)

 

"Flagship"

Continental --> takes over from MKS as the "twin" to Taurus (assuming it stays FWD on enlarged EUCD platform). This will be Lincoln's answer to Cadillac XTS and will be a large limo. Having a name for the "flagship" car also creates some symmetry to the Navigator name as it has been serving as Lincoln's flagship for sometime now.

Continental L --> if there is a demand for such a beast...

Navigator --> new Navigator should be slightly smaller (as would the Expedition now that Explorer is more of a crossover). Based engine should be 3.5T. V8 5.0 optional.

Navigator L --> splits the difference between current Navigator and Navigator L

 

And needless to say specifically but hybrid option should be available throughout the range.

Edited June 7, 2010 by bzcat

[rmc523]

"Flagship"

Continental --> takes over from MKS as the "twin" to Taurus (assuming it stays FWD on enlarged EUCD platform). This will be Lincoln's answer to Cadillac XTS and will be a large limo. Having a name for the "flagship" car also creates some symmetry to the Navigator name as it has been serving as Lincoln's flagship for sometime now.

 

Why would you not just continue the MKS as the Taurus sibling and have the new RWD sedan be a Continental?

[bzcat]

Why would you not just continue the MKS as the Taurus sibling and have the new RWD sedan be a Continental?

 

Because the MKS market segment (i.e. BMW 5 series etc) will demand more driver oriented chassis, which a RWD platform would provide. In the long (maybe very long?) run, the volume Lincoln models (MKZ and MKS) should be RWD to better compete globally.

 

The flagship vehicle could be FWD for livery customers (e.g. upcoming Audi A8 and Cadillac XTS will both come with standard FWD in the US) and AWD optional for private buyers. You could make it RWD too but I suspect that in the US market, it won't matter too much.

[rmc523]

Because the MKS market segment (i.e. BMW 5 series etc) will demand more driver oriented chassis, which a RWD platform would provide. In the long (maybe very long?) run, the volume Lincoln models (MKZ and MKS) should be RWD to better compete globally.

 

The flagship vehicle could be FWD for livery customers (e.g. upcoming Audi A8 and Cadillac XTS will both come with standard FWD in the US) and AWD optional for private buyers. You could make it RWD too but I suspect that in the US market, it won't matter too much.

 

I see.

[one2gamble]

It doesnt need to be RWD, they need a elite AWD chassis. If tuned right it would be fine.

[Edstock]

The flagship vehicle could be FWD for livery customers

I sure hope not. A 120" white stretch limo does nothing to add lustre to the brand, unless you live in a trailer park. Leave the livery biz to the Chrysler 300 or whatever.