Am I Getting Hosed by my FORD dealer?

[DUCKRACER]

I am the kind of person that likes to over-maintain my Fords. I ALWAYS have our 09 V6 AWD Escape serviced by my local Ford Dealer. I have them service it and change the motor oil every 3kmi. So when it came time for my 30k mi. service I asked the sevice writer to have the transmission flushed by one of those macines that forces the new tranny fluid through the torque converter as well as the gear box and put in a new transmission fluid filter if there was one. A few hours later they called me and said that they would not do it. He told me that it had something to do with the fact that the technician had to get the transmission fluid at a different temperature for each gear (WTF?). Basically, I got the impression that they just did not want to go to all the trouble. He said it would be fine to do it at 60k mi. I pointed out to him that I did not want to do that because, by then, my warranty would be long gone.

 

They also were the only ones to service my 04 F250 PSD (every 3k mi) that I bought there new until I sold it last year.

 

I am baffled and angry all at the same time. I have purchased 4 new for vehicles from this dealer over the last 10 years. When we bought the Escape, I was informed by the sales person that they make very little profit on the purchase of vehicles and most of the profit comes from service.

 

Why then would they not jump at the chance to service my transmission?

 

What should I do???

Edited August 22, 2010 by DUCKRACER

[NLPRacing]

When does the owner's manual say when it should be changed?

[DUCKRACER]

When does the owner's manual say when it should be changed?

 

I don't care what the owner manual says. As I clearly stated, I like to over-maintain my vehicles.

 

I am sure that the owners manual recommends a lot more than 3k mi b/w oil changes, but my Ford dealer was more than happy to change the oil on my PSD and my escape every 3k.

 

As to owners manuals, I view them as mere suggestions. Some say change the oil every 4.500 mi, but if you look at the fine print they say under normal conditions. Any thing other starting the car once, driving it for 4,500mi, without stopping, on level ground through cool, clean air is "adverse conditions".

 

I feel the same way about transmission oil.

 

Is FOMOCO under some sort of pressure from eco-nazis to create less waste oil?

[FordBuyer]

Take it to another Ford dealer. I got my auto trans fluid flushed at 35,000 miles which is recommended interval on 2002 Taurus. All my service work is also done at my local Ford dealer and they not only did it, but recommended it. They used the system you described and I believe the price was around $100.

[twintornados]

I just had the Aisin 6 speed in my Fusion flushed at 100K (recommended interval) and my Ford dealer used the pressure system that you speak of...the fluid was expensive as all heck....the job cost me $188.00, but the trans shifts fine...all is well....

[FordBuyer]

I just had the Aisin 6 speed in my Fusion flushed at 100K (recommended interval) and my Ford dealer used the pressure system that you speak of...the fluid was expensive as all heck....the job cost me $188.00, but the trans shifts fine...all is well....

 

My 4 speed auto started getting a little balky shifting into OD,but after trans flush it shifted into OD like it did before fluid got dirty. Mine wasn't so much the miles as the age of the fluid. $100-$200 is a lot cheaper than new trans.

[NLPRacing]

I don't care what the owner manual says. As I clearly stated, I like to over-maintain my vehicles.

 

I am sure that the owners manual recommends a lot more than 3k mi b/w oil changes, but my Ford dealer was more than happy to change the oil on my PSD and my escape every 3k.

 

As to owners manuals, I view them as mere suggestions. Some say change the oil every 4.500 mi, but if you look at the fine print they say under normal conditions. Any thing other starting the car once, driving it for 4,500mi, without stopping, on level ground through cool, clean air is "adverse conditions".

 

I feel the same way about transmission oil.

 

Is FOMOCO under some sort of pressure from eco-nazis to create less waste oil?

 

I was just wondering. It is weird that they wouldn't do it. Personally, I never change my transmission fluid. My truck is 10 years old with over 100,000 miles and it still shifts like new. Some new cars coming out have "sealed" transmissions that never need changing. Maybe the dealer was trying to not screw you. Just a thought.

[aneekr]

DUCKRACER, try an independent shop for the tranny flush. If you are satisfied otherwise with the service at your Ford dealer, certainly there's no reason not to do other maintenance/repair work there.

[DUCKRACER]

DUCKRACER, try an independent shop for the tranny flush. If you are satisfied otherwise with the service at your Ford dealer, certainly there's no reason not to do other maintenance/repair work there.

 

aneekr, thanks for the response. I think I will just call another Ford dealer and see what they say. I got an up date from my wife. She saying that the dealer said something about screwing up some kind of seal, like NLPRacing said. I just find it disappointing that Ford has adopted this "factory sealed" mentality for trannys. I don't believe in the tooth fairy or "no maintenance" anything.

 

If an independent shop does it and the tranny has problems, the Ford dealer probably will say I voided the warranty.

 

I may have to just wait till 60k mi are up, but I just don't like the idea.

 

I will post here what I find out.....

[Marginal Economist]

aneekr, thanks for the response. I think I will just call another Ford dealer and see what they say. I got an up date from my wife. She saying that the dealer said something about screwing up some kind of seal, like NLPRacing said. I just find it disappointing that Ford has adopted this "factory sealed" mentality for trannys. I don't believe in the tooth fairy or "no maintenance" anything.

 

If an independent shop does it and the tranny has problems, the Ford dealer probably will say I voided the warranty.

 

I may have to just wait till 60k mi are up, but I just don't like the idea.

 

I will post here what I find out.....

 

Don't quote me, but I think the interval for service is 150K miles.

[akirby]

aneekr, thanks for the response. I think I will just call another Ford dealer and see what they say. I got an up date from my wife. She saying that the dealer said something about screwing up some kind of seal, like NLPRacing said. I just find it disappointing that Ford has adopted this "factory sealed" mentality for trannys. I don't believe in the tooth fairy or "no maintenance" anything.

 

If an independent shop does it and the tranny has problems, the Ford dealer probably will say I voided the warranty.

 

I may have to just wait till 60k mi are up, but I just don't like the idea.

 

I will post here what I find out.....

 

They're not "factory sealed" and they're not meant to be totally maintenance free. It started with the 5R55 in the Lincoln LS because it did not come with a dipstick to check fluid levels. Everybody thought that meant it didn't require fluid changes and that started the whole "factory sealed" theory. But one of the engineers told us that the reason it came without a dipstick is they couldn't find room for it in the engine bay of the V8. Had nothing to do with the transmission itself. The same trans in the explorer did have a dipstick.

 

Find another dealer.

[NickF1011]

Why would anyone change their oil every 3000 miles, unless all you drive on is dirt roads?

[RangerM]

Why would anyone change their oil every 3000 miles, unless all you drive on is dirt roads?

I can do that, if 6 months comes first.

[NickF1011]

I can do that, if 6 months comes first.

 

The oil in my Cobra usually sits in there for well over a year. :shrug:

[NLPRacing]

Why would anyone change their oil every 3000 miles, unless all you drive on is dirt roads?

 

There's no way I would change the oil that often. Even conventional oil is good enough to go at least as long as the owner's manual says to do it.

 

The oil in my Cobra usually sits in there for well over a year. :shrug:

 

I put about 4500 miles a year on my Mustang and I will change it yearly. But I do use Royal Purple 5W20. No leaks and no oil burning. I also do the same on the motorhome (averages about 5000 miles a year). For the last 50,000 miles or so in my truck I've been using Mobil 5W30 and Fram's so called 10,000 mile filters and don't change it for at least 10,000 miles. I always check the oil level before I change it and it's never any lower that the last change and there's still no leaks. Even after 10 years it still runs great. I have had to replace 2 parts on it, the air-idle bypass regulator & the throttle position sensor. I don't think that's too bad.

 

As far as automatic tranny's go, I would NEVER change the fluid. I never have and probably never will. I think my ratio to miles driven versus money saved on transmission services has me way ahead, even if a tranny goes bad on me.

 

BTW - We have a 2005 Dodge Magnum at work that they decided to change the tranny fluid on after it already had 100,000 miles on it. That tranny had to be rebuilt about 100 miles after a fluid change. The shop said the new fluid "washed" away all the seals.

[DUCKRACER]

They're not "factory sealed" and they're not meant to be totally maintenance free. It started with the 5R55 in the Lincoln LS because it did not come with a dipstick to check fluid levels. Everybody thought that meant it didn't require fluid changes and that started the whole "factory sealed" theory. But one of the engineers told us that the reason it came without a dipstick is they couldn't find room for it in the engine bay of the V8. Had nothing to do with the transmission itself. The same trans in the explorer did have a dipstick.

 

Find another dealer.

 

Thanks, akirby I will and I will let you know the results.

[DUCKRACER]

Why would anyone change their oil every 3000 miles, unless all you drive on is dirt roads?

 

Because I like to keep my vehicles for many many years. Oil is cheap compared to engine repair/replace. If you read owner manuals, you wil find "exceptions" to the recommended oil change intervals and alot of those exceptions occur in every day useage. Short trips. Stop and go traffic. Agressive driving. Humidity, Starting a cold engine. The list goes on and on.

 

Why change oil so close to its limits??? Why not change it when it is virtually new?

Edited August 27, 2010 by DUCKRACER

[DUCKRACER]

There's no way I would change the oil that often. Even conventional oil is good enough to go at least as long as the owner's manual says to do it.

 

 

 

I put about 4500 miles a year on my Mustang and I will change it yearly. But I do use Royal Purple 5W20. No leaks and no oil burning. I also do the same on the motorhome (averages about 5000 miles a year). For the last 50,000 miles or so in my truck I've been using Mobil 5W30 and Fram's so called 10,000 mile filters and don't change it for at least 10,000 miles. I always check the oil level before I change it and it's never any lower that the last change and there's still no leaks. Even after 10 years it still runs great. I have had to replace 2 parts on it, the air-idle bypass regulator & the throttle position sensor. I don't think that's too bad.

 

As far as automatic tranny's go, I would NEVER change the fluid. I never have and probably never will. I think my ratio to miles driven versus money saved on transmission services has me way ahead, even if a tranny goes bad on me.

 

BTW - We have a 2005 Dodge Magnum at work that they decided to change the tranny fluid on after it already had 100,000 miles on it. That tranny had to be rebuilt about 100 miles after a fluid change. The shop said the new fluid "washed" away all the seals.

Maybe keeping the fluid fresh would have helped the seals stay good.

[BrewfanGRB]

Because I like to keep my vehicles for many many years. Oil is cheap compared to engine repair/replace. If you read owner manuals, you wil find "exceptions" to the recommended oil change intervals and alot of those exceptions occur in every day useage. Short trips. Stop and go traffic. Agressive driving. Humidity, Starting a cold engine. The list goes on and on.

 

Why change oil so close to its limits??? Why not change it when it is virtually new?

 

Hmm. You're free to do whatever you want. I won't criticize that. But look at the last line of what you've writen: "Why not change it when it is virtually new?" Because it's virtually new!! And "starting a cold engine"? Doesn't everyone do that at least twice a day? I mean, come on. But like I said, it's your time and your money. You can do whatever you want with it.

 

It's just my opinion that I believe in being efficient. I don't think for one second that chaning my oil every 3000 miles is proven to have efficacy over changing it every 7500 miles. So changing it every 3000 miles is inefficient--in both a use of my time and my money and in a use of resources.

 

But then, nothing anyone says here is going to change your mind anyway. You've got an idea of what you like and that's cool. What you do doesn't really affect me.

[NLPRacing]

Maybe keeping the fluid fresh would have helped the seals stay good.

 

Possibly, but it also may have gone another 100,000 miles on the fluid it had. The world may never know.

 

Quick story, my Dad bought a 94 Grand Marquis back in 98 from a guy that was a traveling salesman that had over 200,000 miles on it. My Dad then put another 150,000 miles on it. Then my sister drove it a while and put another 50,000 miles on it. Then they sold it to a guy my brother in law works with and he put another 100,000 miles on it. The last I heard, it had over 400,000 miles on it, with the original transmission & original transmission fluid. Nothing ever went wrong with the engine either. Just semi regular oil changes.

 

Like Brewfan said, nothing stated here will change your mind (nor should it), but I do agree that changing fluid too early is inefficient, and I believe it's wasteful. I still believe your dealer was trying to not hose you by not changing your tranny fluid.

[NickF1011]

Because I like to keep my vehicles for many many years. Oil is cheap compared to engine repair/replace. If you read owner manuals, you wil find "exceptions" to the recommended oil change intervals and alot of those exceptions occur in every day useage. Short trips. Stop and go traffic. Agressive driving. Humidity, Starting a cold engine. The list goes on and on.

 

Why change oil so close to its limits??? Why not change it when it is virtually new?

 

I've had my Cobra for 13 years and have never done 3000 mile oil change intervals. My Mazda's engine is still running fine after 5 years of stop-and-go and 7000+ mile oil change intervals. :shrug:

[silvrsvt]

I'll throw a couple facts into the mix here:

 

What does oil do in a engine? It primarily lubricates the engine and carries away wastes it encounters while doing this.

 

Anyways...oil doesn't break down..it stays the same, but it collects contaminates, which if build up too long can cause all nasty things to happen.

 

The Military uses Oil sample analysis on its engine every six months to a year...only time it gets changed is if it comes back with an issue...like contamination from water etc.

 

Another thing, using mileage as a indication of wear is pretty bad...you can have an engine idle for hours on end and put no mileage on it, and it does just as much wear as driving it 50K miles, but its far easier to use mileage as a indication for maintenance since we dont have engine runtime gauges in our cars.

 

Synthetic oils are sort of a waste for most applications in autos...they are best suited for extreme temp conditions, like in Turbine engine or areas where normal oil servicing is a PIA due to location etc...esp when cost is factored in.

[danglin]

 

Well on the 2008 Police Interceptor I drive, My Department (Indiana State Police) requires 5000 mile oil change intervals. That does not include hours, which we get plenty of with the extensive idling. (Ford put an our meter on it, for idle time only). This interval has existed since I started back in 1996. We drive these cars until the have over well over 100.000 miles, and we do not have problems with engines blowing. Also, we use recycled Safety Kleen oil!!!

 

Transmissions are serviced at 60,000 miles. We do lose a tranny now and then. Don't know what that means... :shades:

[DUCKRACER]

 

Well on the 2008 Police Interceptor I drive, My Department (Indiana State Police) requires 5000 mile oil change intervals. That does not include hours, which we get plenty of with the extensive idling. (Ford put an our meter on it, for idle time only). This interval has existed since I started back in 1996. We drive these cars until the have over well over 100.000 miles, and we do not have problems with engines blowing. Also, we use recycled Safety Kleen oil!!!

 

Transmissions are serviced at 60,000 miles. We do lose a tranny now and then. Don't know what that means... :shades:

 

 

Oil Threads ALWAYS get lots of opinions.....

 

BTW danglin, thanks for your service. Police have one of the most thankless and dangerous jobs in the world.

[06mariner]

None of the Ford dealers in my area (4 all together) will flush ANY Escape, Mariner,Fusion, or Milan Transmissions regardless of year. They will just drain the fluid and refill. My 06 Mariner has 70,000 miles on it and I just had it drained for the 3rd time. It drives me CRAZY that they won't flush it as I too am a little anal with maintenance as well (fuel filters every 15K, oil and tire rotation every 3K, coolant flush every 60K etc.) but I haven't had a single issue with the tranny doing just the drain and refill and they only charge me $70 to do it.

 

It is a little odd to me that they won't flush it as they have no problem doing flushes on my other cars and cars I've had in the past. They must know something I/ We don't !?