Tundra Caters To “Sophisticated” Buyers?

[V8-X]

First off, we all know how much TTAC loves Toyota, and how much BS and fluff comes from this site. But check these out. I'd love to know how they came to these conclusions.

 

http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2010/10/11/tundra-caters-to-sophisticated-buyers/

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-toyota-tundra-the-quiche-truck/

[PREMiERdrum]

Tundra Caters To “Sophisticated” Ignorant Buyers?

 

Fixed it for you, TTAC.

[92merc]

I can say there is nothing sophisticated about the Tundra. Have they even put adjustable pedals in them yet? Never mind all the other techno additions the F150 has received the past couple of years.

[Mr. Gumby]

And that pretty much sums up my non-scientific, completely subjective observations of Tundra owners, and truck owners in general.

My observations about the majority of full size pick-up truck owners:

1) Male

2) 21+ years old

3) brand loyal

4) generally speaking, know more about the mechanical side of their vehicle than the average car owner

 

My observations of Tundra owners:

1) Male

2) 35+ years old (edit: removed personal observation)

3) Toyota loyal

4) know diddly-squat about the mechanical side of their vehicle but think they do.

 

And in response to that wonderful article on Tundra Headquarters:

HOWEVER, despite this series of events, the Tundra is gaining market share and may even beat Chrysler-Fiat sales of the Ram 1500…how is any sort of growth in these circumstances considered a failure?

 

Um, what the crap is this guy smoking?

YTD sales of RAM Pickups: 140,889

YTD sales of Tundra trucks: 68,645

and for more laughs,

YTD Silverado: 267,715

YTD Ford F-Series: 385,879

Heck, the Toyota has only sold 21,000 more Tundras than Ford sold F-series in September alone.

 

Yep, the Tundra is just eating up the domestic market share!

 

One of the analysts quoted in the TTAC article stated that “We had expected Toyota would do what they did with cars and take over the (truck) market.” This was a commonly shared expectation – a lot of people at Toyota assumed the same thing – but the reality is that truck sales are won one owner at a time. Toyota’s “frustratingly slow” share growth is the norm, not the exception.

 

Translation: "We expected Toyota to take over the market because they are Toyota and nobody knows how to build vehicles like they do. (Sees the disastrous sales results 3 years later) However, we never expected Toyota to take over the market that quickly. Yeah... it um, takes time or something. The Tundra is great, Toyota didn't fail, it's just that.... um,.... well, you see, people who don't buy Toyotas are ignorant. Yep, THAT'S why it's taking time. I love you Toyota. Have my child."

 

Toyota’s buyers may be more sophisticated than domestic buyers

 

Yes, because the crux of sophistication is to endlessly flap your mouth about how fast your truck is. EVERYBODY knows sophisticated people try to race anybody at every red light. :rolleyes:

Edited October 19, 2010 by Mr. Gumby

[RichardJensen]

It's funny that they don't give you any of the numbers, they just say 'more and less likely to....'

 

Translation: You can't draw meaningful conclusions.

[jpd80]

Thank goodness Ford's idea of Flex is completely different to Toyota's.

[aneekr]

It's funny that they don't give you any of the numbers, they just say 'more and less likely to....'

 

Translation: You can't draw meaningful conclusions.

Anyone here know how much it costs to get the Claritas market research data mentioned in the TTAC post (and in turn, the BusinessWeek article that it referenced)?

 

"Sophisticated" in this case describes pickup truck buyers, not the trucks themselves.

[V8-X]

Um, what the crap is this guy smoking?

YTD sales of RAM Pickups: 140,889

YTD sales of Tundra trucks: 68,645

and for more laughs,

YTD Silverado: 267,715

YTD Ford F-Series: 385,879

Heck, the Toyota has only sold 21,000 more Tundras than Ford sold F-series in September alone.

 

Yep, the Tundra is just eating up the domestic market share!

I agree with you 100%. But re-read the article, they are being a little misleading. They compare the Tundra to the Ram 1500, not the entire Ram lineup. They wrote an article earlier this year about this topic (see below link). It was all based on truck sales from Jan-Apr 2010. This article is just as much fluff in my opinion.

 

http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2010/06/02/tundra-ram-sales/

 

And in the article, they try to blame fleet sales, brand loyalty and dealership locations as to why the domestics are doing better. No mention that just maybe, Ford or another domestic truck is better than the Tundra.

 

Translation: "We expected Toyota to take over the market because they are Toyota and nobody knows how to build vehicles like they do. (Sees the disastrous sales results 3 years later) However, we never expected Toyota to take over the market that quickly. Yeah... it um, takes time or something. The Tundra is great, Toyota didn't fail, it's just that.... um,.... well, you see, people who don't buy Toyotas are ignorant. Yep, THAT'S why it's taking time. I love you Toyota. Have my child."

Sounds about right!

 

 

Yes, because the crux of sophistication is to endlessly flap your mouth about how fast your truck is. EVERYBODY knows sophisticated people try to race anybody at every red light. :rolleyes:

And that is my experience as well.

Edited October 12, 2010 by V8-X

[630land]

"My observations of Tundra owners:"

1) Male

2) 35+ years old and balding (seriously, it's true)

 

What does 'balding' have to do with a man's character? 40% of men don't have full heads of hair by 40-50, get the F over it smart-ass.

 

 

Anyway, TTAC sux and Tundra is a pig that isn't selling. "Sophisticated" buyers? What year is this 1979?

[97svtgoin05gt]

I'd say most Tundra owners are non-truck guys. The ones who know wont buy them and the sales numbers indicate this fact.

[J-150]

I'd say most Tundra owners are non-truck guys. The ones who know wont buy them and the sales numbers indicate this fact.

 

 

It appears that most Tundras are sold as fully loaded models.

 

How many buyers of fully loaded F150s, Silerados, Rams and Titans are non-truck people?

 

 

I think Toyota is happy selling so many profit laden trucks, versus a lot of slim margined work trucks. Alan Mullaly would probably give his left testicle if 80% of F150 sales were Lariat trim.

Edited October 12, 2010 by J-150

[V8-X]

It appears that most Tundras are sold as fully loaded models.

 

How many buyers of fully loaded F150s, Silerados, Rams and Titans are non-truck people?

 

 

I think Toyota is happy selling so many profit laden trucks, versus a lot of slim margined work trucks. Alan Mullaly would probably give his left testicle if 80% of F150 sales were Lariat trim.

How do we know that? At least in CO, the Tundra's I've seen are typically SR5, with a few here and there the Limited model. Where as based on what I see around here in CO, at least 50%-70% of these F150s are FX4, Lariat or KR editions. Of course this is a snap shot and may not be true of all markets. And I rarely see many XL work trucks driving the streets, they must be at the sites. I'd just like to know where you got the fully loaded piece at.

 

But as a company, I like the Ford position for 2010. They have sold 385K+ F-Series compared to 68K+ Tundras. If only a 3rd of that 385K+ is F150s (which I'm sure the figure is higher), then that's still 128K+ F150s, which is 59K+ more F150s sold this year alone.

 

Toyota has still never met their goal of 200K trucks per year and they continue to have many odd and end issues. So I don't think Toyota is totally happy with their sales based on that sole factor of fully loaded or not.

Edited October 12, 2010 by V8-X

[rmc523]

It appears that most Tundras are sold as fully loaded models.

 

How many buyers of fully loaded F150s, Silerados, Rams and Titans are non-truck people?

 

 

I think Toyota is happy selling so many profit laden trucks, versus a lot of slim margined work trucks. Alan Mullaly would probably give his left testicle if 80% of F150 sales were Lariat trim.

 

Well, until recently, there was no super stripped model, but as V8-X said, most of them I see are mid-level Tundras.

 

How do we know that? At least in CO, the Tundra's I've seen are typically SR5, with a few here and there the Limited model. Where as based on what I see around here in CO, at least 50%-70% of these F150s are FX4, Lariat or KR editions. Of course this is a snap shot and may not be true of all markets. And I rarely see many XL work trucks driving the streets, they must be at the sites. I'd just like to know where you got the fully loaded piece at.

 

Same situation here.

[PREMiERdrum]

How do we know that? At least in CO, the Tundra's I've seen are typically SR5, with a few here and there the Limited model. Where as based on what I see around here in CO, at least 50%-70% of these F150s are FX4, Lariat or KR editions. Of course this is a snap shot and may not be true of all markets. And I rarely see many XL work trucks driving the streets, they must be at the sites. I'd just like to know where you got the fully loaded piece at.

 

But as a company, I like the Ford position for 2010. They have sold 385K+ F-Series compared to 68K+ Tundras. If only a 3rd of that 385K+ is F150s (which I'm sure the figure is higher), then that's still 128K+ F150s, which is 59K+ more F150s sold this year alone.

 

Toyota has still never met their goal of 200K trucks per year and they continue to have many odd and end issues. So I don't think Toyota is totally happy with their sales based on that sole factor of fully loaded or not.

 

 

Well, until recently, there was no super stripped model, but as V8-X said, most of them I see are mid-level Tundras.

 

 

 

Same situation here.

 

I'm impressed that you all can stare at those turds long enough to tell which trimlevel they are. As soon as I recognize that half-aborted face and chubby body I instinctively look away to prevent further damage. Oddly, I have the same reaction to Rosie O'Donnell.

Edited October 13, 2010 by PREMiERdrum

[rmc523]

I'm impressed that you call can stare at those turds long enough to tell which trimlevel they are. As soon as I recognize that half-aborted face and chubby body I instinctively look away to prevent further damage. Oddly, I have the same reaction to Rosie O'Donnell.

 

LOL - I don't necessarily know what trimlevel they are, but I know what the base stripper model looks like and I know what the top-of-the-line model looks like, and a good portion of them aren't either of those, so they must be the middle trim.....

[Mr. Gumby]

"My observations of Tundra owners:"

1) Male

2) 35+ years old and balding (seriously, it's true)

 

What does 'balding' have to do with a man's character? 40% of men don't have full heads of hair by 40-50, get the F over it smart-ass.

 

 

Anyway, TTAC sux and Tundra is a pig that isn't selling. "Sophisticated" buyers? What year is this 1979?

 

Exactly where did I mention balding has anything to do with character? Oh, that's right, no where. "My observations of Tundra owners." <-- that's what I said and I stand by my first-hand observation. Not trying to be a smartass.

 

As for trim levels: I notice a healthy level of higher trim F150s around here, and this isn't exactly a rich area.

[ANTAUS]

So yesterday I drive to a friends house to drop something off to my accountant (his wife), and he's putting that "TRD" sticker on his truck and he's done, and he's like, "What do you think?" I'm like "Hm, TuRD? Why would you put "TuRD on your truck?"...then suddenly he just looks down and starts peeling it off...Opps...I'm like "What, didnt you think about it?"...and this on his '97 4Runner, which he claims is very reliable, yet he's always working on it when I pass by...

[V8-X]

I'm impressed that you all can stare at those turds long enough to tell which trimlevel they are. As soon as I recognize that half-aborted face and chubby body I instinctively look away to prevent further damage. Oddly, I have the same reaction to Rosie O'Donnell.

My mother in law's neighbor has a blue 2007 Tundra CrewMax 5.7L TRD and is how I know quite a bit about the basic ins/outs of the truck. We chat about our trucks and former trucks a lot, and take them for rides or up the hill once in a while. I dislike the Tundra style, but have come to accept the design, as I have with all other Toyota's.

 

Glad I'm not the only one with the Rosie O'Donnell complex though.

[97svtgoin05gt]

Regardless of trim levels, Toyota is almost certainly not happy with their sales figures at all. Even if every single one is a fully loaded up unit, they're still falling far short of their targets. Then you factor in things like replacing FRAMES at the dealer level and the other assorted goodies that have come up and I feel the "Truck that changes everything" has actually not changed all that much.

[RangerM]

Well, until recently, there was no super stripped model, but as V8-X said, most of them I see are mid-level Tundras.

 

Do they make a "working man's" model, at all?

 

I've seen lots of T-100s being used by contractors, but I'm not sure I've seen any using the previous-gen Tundras, and I know I haven't seen any using a new one.

Edited October 14, 2010 by RangerM

[jpd80]

So Toyota's plans for Tundra dominating the US truck market have been put on hold while is searches for buyers...

[V8-X]

Regardless of trim levels, Toyota is almost certainly not happy with their sales figures at all. Even if every single one is a fully loaded up unit, they're still falling far short of their targets. Then you factor in things like replacing FRAMES at the dealer level and the other assorted goodies that have come up and I feel the "Truck that changes everything" has actually not changed all that much.

Well, the frame replacements on the Tundra, are for the Gen I model, not the Gen II that was supposed to change it all. Either way, the frame replacements, from what I've seen by owners who've had theirs replaced, are costing Toyota roughly $13K-$14K each. Whether it is the Gen I or Gen II, this is a big black eye for Toyota and the Tundra.

 

I've seen lots of T-100s being used by contractors, but I'm not sure I've seen any using the previous-gen Tundras, and I know I haven't seen any using a new one.

I rarely see any Tundra's as a "work" truck, typically just a toy hauler. When a Gen I or Gen II Tundra is seen as a supposed "work" truck, they've usually been part runners for dealers, or something like a roof inspectors truck or glass repair service truck, or such items that the Tundra isn't put through a great deal of stress.

[F250]

It appears that most Tundras are sold as fully loaded models.

 

How many buyers of fully loaded F150s, Silerados, Rams and Titans are non-truck people?

 

 

I think Toyota is happy selling so many profit laden trucks, versus a lot of slim margined work trucks. Alan Mullaly would probably give his left testicle if 80% of F150 sales were Lariat trim.

 

A F150 sample. source:2006 order guide

 

XL : 16%

STX : 8%

XLT : 35%

FX4 : 15%

LARIAT : 26%

 

Ford doesn't do bad moving mid-high line F150s

[jpd80]

A F150 sample. source:2006 order guide

 

XL : 16%

STX : 8%

XLT : 35%

FX4 : 15%

LARIAT : 26%

 

Ford doesn't do bad moving mid-high line F150s

 

Remember, those 2006 percentages changed dramatically when gas prices soared up

and people fled the lifestyle truck market. Those buyers still haven't fully returned to F trucks

[F250]

"My observations of Tundra owners:"

1) Male

2) 35+ years old and balding (seriously, it's true)

 

What does 'balding' have to do with a man's character? 40% of men don't have full heads of hair by 40-50, get the F over it smart-ass.

 

You're bald aren't you?

 

That's ok, most Corvette owners are 45+ and wear a toupe.

 

:D

 

(joking)