Catalepsy Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703818204576206362498919014.html?mod=googlenews_wsj Top 5: Lincoln, Lexus, Jaguar, Porsche and Toyota Bottom 5: Dodge and Chrysler, Land Rover, Jeep, and of course...Mini I never understood why Mini sells so well... but it just proves that no one cares about these dependability surveys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Well, at least Lincoln is doing one thing right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcthorne Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Congrats Lincoln! Good to see ANY american make at the top again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Bu...Bu...Bu...but Lincoln is a damaged brand.... Bu...bu...bu...but Lincoln is only a tarted up Ford... Bu...bu...bu...but Lincoln doesn't sell well.... Bu...bu...bu...but Lincoln is a has been.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Bu...Bu...Bu...but Lincoln is a damaged brand.... Bu...bu...bu...but Lincoln is only a tarted up Ford... Bu...bu...bu...but Lincoln doesn't sell well.... Bu...bu...bu...but Lincoln is a has been.... These results really do nothing to dispute those claims. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Jag, M-B, and Hyundai are better than Ford? Not sure what I think of the data now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Keep in mind these are 3 yr old 2008 models, not 2011 models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 From what I understand, the JD Power Dependability survey is downright retarted to a point...a big reason Mini ranks so low is that people complain about the size of cup holders etc etc..its not really a good indicatior IMO of car relaitibltiy. Also the results seemed skqued against smaller makes that only have a couple cars they produce, which normally rate at the bottom (like Hummer when they where around) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arniect Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 This is great to see. BUT: The JD Powers surveys are a joke. if you have filled them out you know why i say that: 1. The vast majority that fill these surveys out have no basic understanding of what is a real problem, versus what is not. 2. To properly fill these surveys out takes a lot of time, very few will spend an hour filling out a form like this. To adress this Powers sends you $1 an an incentive to fill it out. Having said that Ford has made major strides and things like this do nothing but help the cause. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 people complain about the size of cup holders etc etc. 1. The vast majority that fill these surveys out have no basic understanding of what is a real problem, versus what is not. If the customer thinks there's a problem, there's a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) If the customer thinks there's a problem, there's a problem. Yes. In many cases there is a problem...with the customer. And no, the customer isn't always right. Edited March 17, 2011 by NickF1011 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 2. To properly fill these surveys out takes a lot of time, very few will spend an hour filling out a form like this. To adress this Powers sends you $1 an an incentive to fill it out. A fresh, crisp $1 bill at that! Yes, the consumers who receive JD Power IQS and VDS forms will have to devote some time and effort to fill it out properly (it took me about 35 minutes for the IQS I received last year). But the methodologies employed by both surveys are sound overall. If they weren't, OEMs wouldn't spend the substantial sums they do to purchase survey results, and The McGraw-Hill Companies would not have acquired JD Power back in 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Yes. In many cases there is a problem...with the customer. And no, the customer isn't always right. Rule #1: The customer is always right. Rule #2: If the customer is ever wrong, re-read Rule #1. Rule #3 (according to Seth Godin): If the customer is wrong, they're not your customer any more. Edited March 17, 2011 by aneekr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 It's my understanding that the J.D. Power's surveys are now much more focused. No more lumping an ill-fitting carpet with a transmission failure. But what Jensen says is true, if the customer says it's a problem, it's a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Yes. In many cases there is a problem...with the customer. And no, the customer isn't always right. This man needs to be assigned to the Board at General Motors immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Rule #1: The customer is always right. Rule #2: If the customer is ever wrong, re-read Rule #1. Rule #3 (according to Seth Godin): If the customer is wrong, they're not your customer any more. So I would be right to complain that my Edge doesn't get 40 MPG? No. Of course, you don't tell the customer he/she is wrong, but that doesn't mean they aren't. Edited March 17, 2011 by NickF1011 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 So I would be right to complain that my Edge doesn't get 40 MPG? You would be right, and it's definitely your right to express that particular complaint. If Ford Motor Company or the seller of your Ford Edge treat you - the customer - as if you were wrong, the outcomes would be: * You will refuse to do business with FoMoCo or the seller of Ford products, and probably tell others to do the same; * FoMoCo or the seller will "fire" you as a customer if it's not worth it to them to make you right. Godin explains this concept here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Yes. In many cases there is a problem...with the customer. And no, the customer isn't always right. That's why you work with computers, right? It's like this: If the customer thinks there's a problem, there's a problem. The question is whether it's practical to solve that problem. In your example, 'I wish my Edge got 40mpg' is a problem, but it's not one that Ford can practically solve. Therefore, that problem is ignored. Or if addressing a customer complaint would lead to a significant increase in complaints from other customers: "I think the console cupholders should be replaced with a storage bin. I don't drink in my car, and I don't think anyone else should either." That problem can't be practically solved, because it would create problems for many many more customers. The customer may not always be right, but you definitely need to know what your customers' problems are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Bu...Bu...Bu...but Lincoln is a damaged brand.... Bu...bu...bu...but Lincoln is only a tarted up Ford... Bu...bu...bu...but Lincoln doesn't sell well.... Bu...bu...bu...but Lincoln is a has been.... One conclusion that can be drawn from this survey with Lincoln at least.....there is no correlation between dependability score and sales. if you like light traffic and no wait time, visit a Lincoln dealer showroom. No wonder they get better score than Ford which is a busy place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 The customer may not always be right, but you definitely need to know what your customers' problems are. That I can agree with. You need to know what the customer is complaining about, but only so far as to either address the complaint as a legitimate problem or to file it under "go sit on a pole"... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 if you like light traffic and no wait time, visit a Lincoln dealer showroom. No wonder they get better score than Ford which is a busy place. I doubt there is any correlation there either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 That's why you work with computers, right? It's like this: If the customer thinks there's a problem, there's a problem. The question is whether it's practical to solve that problem. In your example, 'I wish my Edge got 40mpg' is a problem, but it's not one that Ford can practically solve. Therefore, that problem is ignored. Or if addressing a customer complaint would lead to a significant increase in complaints from other customers: "I think the console cupholders should be replaced with a storage bin. I don't drink in my car, and I don't think anyone else should either." That problem can't be practically solved, because it would create problems for many many more customers. The customer may not always be right, but you definitely need to know what your customers' problems are. Reminds me of the M.D. Doc who returned his Durango to local Dodge dealer on lease with a "thrashy" engine. Service checked it out, and found oil way down and very dirty as in no oil changes in 30,000 miles of driving. Service informed him that he would have to pay for new engine. The Doc went ballistic and threatened to sue over what he called a "defective" engine. Oh, it's so fun to deal with the public. I see so many abused vehicles on road...must be lots of fun when they come in with their complaints. I know I have leased a couple Tauruses in past and my salesman used to tell me the horror stories of leased vehicles returned and how customers went ballistic when they were informed they would have to pay extra out of pocket. Many were returned looking like garbage cans inside and outside not much better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I doubt there is any correlation there either. :yup: In the JD Power 2011 CSI survey for dealer service experience, Lincoln was outranked by some brands that sold more vehicles (and that presumably have busier dealer service departments), and others that sold fewer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 file it under "go sit on a pole"... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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