twintornados Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 At my local Ford/Lincoln dealer right now having an oil change in my '06 Fusion with 120K miles on her (damn reliable car) As I sit on their complementary computer in the waiting area with leather lounge chairs, fresh coffee, and various daily newspapers, I decided to look at the new Lincoln MKZ hybrid in front of the showroom.....you can say what you want, but it is so much nicer than the Fusion sitting next to it....of course that is my opinion. Several things come to mind.... 1.) dealership is going the extra mile to make me want to return 2.) Lincoln is going to be fine with ongoing development and.... 3.) my Ford is as reliable as they come...I am 1000% pleased with my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 That's why you work with computers, right? The customer may not always be right, but you definitely need to know what your customers' problems are. My computer guy calls these ID-10-T errors. I make them all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 It's pretty easy to take care of your customers and make a solid car when you only sell a few thousand vehicles a year.......... I kid I kid........sort of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 If the customer thinks there's a problem, there's a problem. Apparently bad cup holder sizes or lack of them doesn't seem to be hurting Mini sales.....either.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weiweishen Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Jag, M-B, and Hyundai are better than Ford? Not sure what I think of the data now. These are 2009 model year car and truck, means that they sold on 2008. I wonder the result to 2010 model year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 These are 2009 model year car and truck, means that they sold on 2008. I wonder the result to 2010 model year Nope. 2008 model year vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I decided to look at the new Lincoln MKZ hybrid in front of the showroom.....you can say what you want, but it is so much nicer than the Fusion sitting next to it....of course that is my opinion. You do realize they are the same car? I could find a better place for the $6,265 premium of the MKZ Hybrid over the Fusion Hybrid. $6,265 is a lot for some extra chrome, a little more sound insulation, leather and a strip of real wood across the dash. As it stands right now, the Ford brand is more respected by the average consumer then the Lincoln brand so I don't think you can value brand into the pricing equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 You do realize they are the same car? I could find a better place for the $6,265 premium of the MKZ Hybrid over the Fusion Hybrid. $6,265 is a lot for some extra chrome, a little more sound insulation, leather and a strip of real wood across the dash. As it stands right now, the Ford brand is more respected by the average consumer then the Lincoln brand so I don't think you can value brand into the pricing equation. Does the Fusion offer cooled front seats? What about complimentary maintenance? A completely different interior? What about driving dynamics? They're quite different. Plus, in many areas, the dealer experience is also quite different as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 You do realize they are the same car? I could find a better place for the $6,265 premium of the MKZ Hybrid over the Fusion Hybrid. $6,265 is a lot for some extra chrome, a little more sound insulation, leather and a strip of real wood across the dash. As it stands right now, the Ford brand is more respected by the average consumer then the Lincoln brand so I don't think you can value brand into the pricing equation. Yes I do....I know that they share the same platform and the basic shell is the same, but the appointments, the fit and finish, the interior attention to detail is much more upscale. I am not taking anything away from Fusion....hell, I own one. But seriously, the MKZ is a way nicer car and when you start to outfit a Fusion with all the upscale goodies....you end up with a......Fusion. I just really like the execution of detail on MKZ and the "split bow" grille actually looks good on this car..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Does the Fusion offer cooled front seats? What about complimentary maintenance? A completely different interior? What about driving dynamics? They're quite different. Plus, in many areas, the dealer experience is also quite different as well. Ok you win on count 1 and 2, but how many oil changes does it take to make up the difference? A completely different interior? Yes different styling, but plenty of parts bin items like the gauge cluster itself. Technology offering seems to be the same between these 2 cars. Both have SYNC and available touchscreen navigation from what I can tell. Maybe the Lincoln has some other "gee whiz" technology, but I haven't seen it. Driving dynamics are quite different? You are going to have to explain that one fully to me. The only way that Ford could make the 2 differ is playing around with tire sizes, springs and shock valving. There is no other way to make these cars drive and ride completely different. I suppose Ford could soften the Lincoln up to make it float a little more, but I don't see how that would help make it the better car. I bet almost all suspension and steering parts are interchangeable between the Fusion and MKZ. The dealer experience is different? Sure if you are lucky enough to live near a few of the stand alone Lincoln dealers left. The majority of Lincoln dealers today are Ford-Lincoln dealers so I don't see how the dealer experience could be that much different. Over the past couple of years I have had a couple people that I know ask me for a little advice before buying a new vehicle. One of those people were thinking about an MKZ, but I talked them into getting a very nicely equipped Fusion in the end. To this day they are very happy with their Fusion and are glad they didn't blow the extra cash for the Lincoln. If anyone ever asks my opinion between the MKZ and Fusion, MKX and Edge or MKS and Taurus, I will always tell them that the Ford models offer the best value for their money and unless money is no object, don't waste your money on the Lincoln version. If someone can argue that Lincoln offers more value for the money then Ford on vehicles that are quite similarthen I am ready to listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Driving dynamics are quite different? You are going to have to explain that one fully to me. The only way that Ford could make the 2 differ is playing around with tire sizes, springs and shock valving. There is no other way to make these cars drive and ride completely different. I suppose Ford could soften the Lincoln up to make it float a little more, but I don't see how that would help make it the better car. I bet almost all suspension and steering parts are interchangeable between the Fusion and MKZ. I'd recommend you drive both. There are obvious similarities, but they both drive quite differently. Both have a different feel from behind the wheel. The dealer experience is different? Sure if you are lucky enough to live near a few of the stand alone Lincoln dealers left. The majority of Lincoln dealers today are Ford-Lincoln dealers so I don't see how the dealer experience could be that much different. I do live very close to a freestanding (and very nice) Lincoln dealer. The requirements that have been released so far require conjoined Ford/Lincoln dealers to have separate sales staffs, showrooms, and all sorts of other things. The experience will still be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I'd recommend you drive both. There are obvious similarities, but they both drive quite differently. Both have a different feel from behind the wheel. I do live very close to a freestanding (and very nice) Lincoln dealer. The requirements that have been released so far require conjoined Ford/Lincoln dealers to have separate sales staffs, showrooms, and all sorts of other things. The experience will still be different. If they do in fact drive quite differently I'd like to know where Ford got its magic wand because to be quite different there has to be different parts and I doubt there are any different parts. I have never spent time driving an MKZ so maybe your right and it is a much better driving car then a Fusion, but I'm not sold on that idea by looking at the specs. of the 2 cars. Those dealership requirements will also mean that a lot of small, rural dealerships will be soon dropping the Lincoln brand. That is probably another good reason not to buy a Lincoln over a Ford unless you live in a larger Metro area. If you live in a small state like I do it is likely your closest Lincoln dealer may be hundreds of miles away once all of the new requirements are put into effect. It is a very rare thing to see a new Volvo, Mercedes, BMW or Lexus where I live because there are no dealerships. It is pretty hard to recommend a Lincoln to someone (at least where I live) if I feel there is a big chance that most of the dealerships will be going away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 While, overall, the Lincoln service experience will consist of several exclusive features, I believe you will see the overall dealer experience from the "Ford side" move up as well....I will say that ever since my local Ford / Lincoln store was bought from the previous owners, they have poured some big $$$ into the place. New showroom, new service waiting area, new parts department, the garage has been updated, A "Quick Lanes" service department has been added and it is showing in more and more customers coming in.....the dealership was on the brink of going under until the new owners took it over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Question on this. Do they take the different models and then find the average of the brand based on an equal average of each nameplate? Say, there are 5 nameplates, to they add up the results and divide by 5? Or, do they base it upon the number of each vehicle sold? Say, 400k F-series, 200k fusion, etc and then divide by the total number of vehicles sold? Just wondering, because trucks usually don't score as well in these types of surveys from what I can remember, so Ford selling a large amount of trucks would likely bring the results for the brand down, though I think the larger vehicles have been improving lately (maybe?). Not that it should be an excuse, just curious because it seems Ford cars have been doing doing really well lately in these types of surveys. :yup: In the JD Power 2011 CSI survey for dealer service experience, Lincoln was outranked by some brands that sold more vehicles (and that presumably have busier dealer service departments), and others that sold fewer. As for this, out of curiousity, I would like to see a breakdown of standalone Lincoln dealers compared to to Ford/Lincoln dealers. I have a feeling the standalone dealers would score much higher. Also on that note, I wonder if the Ford/Lincoln dealers manage to pull the Ford numbers up at all for the ones that are combined. Given that a large number of Lincoln dealers are Ford/Lincoln dealers, I'd venture to guess that Lincoln being that high up on the list is saying a lot more about Ford dealers than it is about Lincoln (in a positive way). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Ok you win on count 1 and 2, but how many oil changes does it take to make up the difference? A completely different interior? Yes different styling, but plenty of parts bin items like the gauge cluster itself. Technology offering seems to be the same between these 2 cars. Both have SYNC and available touchscreen navigation from what I can tell. Maybe the Lincoln has some other "gee whiz" technology, but I haven't seen it. Driving dynamics are quite different? You are going to have to explain that one fully to me. The only way that Ford could make the 2 differ is playing around with tire sizes, springs and shock valving. There is no other way to make these cars drive and ride completely different. I suppose Ford could soften the Lincoln up to make it float a little more, but I don't see how that would help make it the better car. I bet almost all suspension and steering parts are interchangeable between the Fusion and MKZ. The dealer experience is different? Sure if you are lucky enough to live near a few of the stand alone Lincoln dealers left. The majority of Lincoln dealers today are Ford-Lincoln dealers so I don't see how the dealer experience could be that much different. Over the past couple of years I have had a couple people that I know ask me for a little advice before buying a new vehicle. One of those people were thinking about an MKZ, but I talked them into getting a very nicely equipped Fusion in the end. To this day they are very happy with their Fusion and are glad they didn't blow the extra cash for the Lincoln. If anyone ever asks my opinion between the MKZ and Fusion, MKX and Edge or MKS and Taurus, I will always tell them that the Ford models offer the best value for their money and unless money is no object, don't waste your money on the Lincoln version. If someone can argue that Lincoln offers more value for the money then Ford on vehicles that are quite similarthen I am ready to listen. The best value for the money that Ford has is the Fiesta. Anything more is a reduction in value.:shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 My computer guy calls these ID-10-T errors. I make them all the time. Ha! I use that all the time with our end users. Per usual, they reply with "Huh?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 "Problems per 100 vehicles" doesn't differentiate between, say, a rattling piece of trim vs. a blown transmission. Lincolns shouldn't be any more or less reliable (major component failures/breakdowns) than their Ford cousins, since they use identical drivetrains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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