6.0 Diesel Trouble

[Bluecon]

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=103776

[J-150]

they put a second mortgage on their house to buy a truck?

 

Anyone else see something wrong with that?

 

 

 

As far as Ford screwing people on the Powerstroke... that really puts the F-Series in long term trouble. Yes it still holds the record but expect the new Toyotas (3/4 ton with Hino diesel) to take a bite out of that.

 

And it wont be long before Nissan has a 3/4ton diesel ttruck.

 

 

Now is not the time for Ford to be pissing off consumers.

[01FOCI]

"As for the Schraders, three days before they were to appear before a Lemon Law arbitration panel in November, Ford offered to buy back their old truck, waive mileage costs and put them in a 2006 model."

 

Sounds like they got screwed to me! I mean common if Ford caved in everytime some hothead bitched about his truck they would be giving well according to the article "The company also has fielded more than 12,000 consumer complaints, according to Ford's internal warranty data." be giving away 12,000 new trucks. I'm not saying there are not problems with the intertrashinal engine but 12K complaints out of the 100,000 of thousands of trucks they sell is hardley pandemic. But at the same time due to this attention it has received Ford should dump intertrashinal as there supplier either design there own or use a caterpiller engine or something.

 

Ford only has a few years left before the crapanese (japanese) get into the market, here in the NW the dodge cummins has taken a big chunk out of Fords customer base judging from the amount of dodges now on the road . The erosion had begun its up to Ford to make it unprofitable for others to enter the market.

 

FORD GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER! DROP INTERTRASHINAL AND USE A BETTER ENGINE!

[PolarBear]

"As for the Schraders, three days before they were to appear before a Lemon Law arbitration panel in November, Ford offered to buy back their old truck, waive mileage costs and put them in a 2006 model."

 

Sounds like they got screwed to me! I mean common if Ford caved in everytime some hothead bitched about his truck they would be giving well according to the article "The company also has fielded more than 12,000 consumer complaints, according to Ford's internal warranty data." be giving away 12,000 new trucks. I'm not saying there are not problems with the intertrashinal engine but 12K complaints out of the 100,000 of thousands of trucks they sell is hardley pandemic. But at the same time due to this attention it has received Ford should dump intertrashinal as there supplier either design there own or use a caterpiller engine or something.

 

Ford only has a few years left before the crapanese (japanese) get into the market, here in the NW the dodge cummins has taken a big chunk out of Fords customer base judging from the amount of dodges now on the road . The erosion had begun its up to Ford to make it unprofitable for others to enter the market.

 

FORD GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER! DROP INTERTRASHINAL AND USE A BETTER ENGINE!

 

Just to set a few items straight:

1) The 6.0 was introduced in late '03 in response to new emissions regulations, not '02 as the article stated.

2) The "slightly unrefined" 7.3 is still being sold in various overseas markets, and is much prized for it's power, durability, and reliability.

3) The problems experienced in the PSD were endemic of "Big Rig" diesels in '04 and '04 as well. Most of the issues relate to a uniquely American problem- we have the most stringent diesel emissions regulations in the world, coupled with the lowest quality diesel fuel avalable in any first-world country.

4) According to JD powers, the odds of having issues with a Dodge are better than a Chevy (1st place) or a Ford (2nd place). Dodge has a great engine- it's the truck that comes standard equipment along with it that could stand some improvement.

 

All that being said, Ford could do a better job of addressing customer concerns when they do happen, IMO. Every manufacturer has problems- it's how you address them that determines customer satisfaction.

 

 

 

"As for the Schraders, three days before they were to appear before a Lemon Law arbitration panel in November, Ford offered to buy back their old truck, waive mileage costs and put them in a 2006 model."

 

Sounds like they got screwed to me! I mean common if Ford caved in everytime some hothead bitched about his truck they would be giving well according to the article "The company also has fielded more than 12,000 consumer complaints, according to Ford's internal warranty data." be giving away 12,000 new trucks. I'm not saying there are not problems with the intertrashinal engine but 12K complaints out of the 100,000 of thousands of trucks they sell is hardley pandemic. But at the same time due to this attention it has received Ford should dump intertrashinal as there supplier either design there own or use a caterpiller engine or something.

 

Ford only has a few years left before the crapanese (japanese) get into the market, here in the NW the dodge cummins has taken a big chunk out of Fords customer base judging from the amount of dodges now on the road . The erosion had begun its up to Ford to make it unprofitable for others to enter the market.

 

FORD GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER! DROP INTERTRASHINAL AND USE A BETTER ENGINE!

 

Just to set a few items straight:

1) The 6.0 was introduced in late '03 in response to new emissions regulations, not '02 as the article stated.

2) The "slightly unrefined" 7.3 is still being sold in various overseas markets, and is much prized for it's power, durability, and reliability.

3) The problems experienced in the PSD were endemic of "Big Rig" diesels in '04 and '04 as well. Most of the issues relate to a uniquely American problem- we have the most stringent diesel emissions regulations in the world, coupled with the lowest quality diesel fuel avalable in any first-world country.

4) According to JD powers, the odds of having issues with a dodge are better than a Chevy (1st place) or a Ford (2nd place).

 

All that being said, Ford could do a better job of addressing customer concerns when they do happen, IMO. Every manufacturer has problems- it's how you address them that determines customer satisfaction.

[JAAF150]

All that being said, Ford could do a better job of addressing customer concerns when they do happen, IMO. Every manufacturer has problems- it's how you address them that determines customer satisfaction.

Just to set a few items straight:

1) The 6.0 was introduced in late '03 in response to new emissions regulations, not '02 as the article stated.

2) The "slightly unrefined" 7.3 is still being sold in various overseas markets, and is much prized for it's power, durability, and reliability.

3) The problems experienced in the PSD were endemic of "Big Rig" diesels in '04 and '04 as well. Most of the issues relate to a uniquely American problem- we have the most stringent diesel emissions regulations in the world, coupled with the lowest quality diesel fuel avalable in any first-world country.

4) According to JD powers, the odds of having issues with a dodge are better than a Chevy (1st place) or a Ford (2nd place).

 

All that being said, Ford could do a better job of addressing customer concerns when they do happen, IMO. Every manufacturer has problems- it's how you address them that determines customer satisfaction.

 

 

 

Being a fleet manager of a large US corporation and give the fact that I talk to other fleet managers I will add my prospective.

 

1. The 6.0 WAS introduced in late 2002 in the 2003 MY. The 7.3 was sold for a few months of the MY, but production stopped on this engine for domestic use on October 31 2002. Engines built before that date could be shipped to Ford but no longer produced. This was due to the "Consent Decree" agreement that IH and the other diesel manufactures signed with the EPA. Cummins and GM also updated their emissions packages at the same time. What's more, this same engine was out even earlier in an International chassis as the VT365. I have some in IH chassis and it has been fairly trouble free.

 

2. The 7.3 was a great engine but it needed some upgrades and updates. It was getting a bit long in the tooth.

 

3. The issues in class 8 trucks with post October 2002 engines (called "10/02 engines" in the industry) have been mild when compared to the 6.0 PSD. Even then, Cummins has had fewer issues than the competition. Few of the issues with the PSD related to fuel quality. What more, the Cummins and the Duramax are burning the same stuff with far fewer problems. Neither company has had to abandon pilot injection as Ford has had to do with the 6.0.

 

4. It's great if the JD Power numbers make you feel better. However, my experiences with the Cummins and the Dodge have been very good. This includes the truck as well as the engine. I would say that the third generation Ram (post 2003) has been every bit as good as the competition. We held off on buying any of the PSD's in 2003 and 04. For two years we only bought Dodges in this vehicle type. We have some 2005 PSD's. They have been better than what I hear from others with the earlier engines, but they have not been as good as the Cummins. The out of service time is enough alone to tip the scale in favor of the Dodge. Six months ago we bought our first Duramax’s. So far the engines have been fine but we have had a few minor issues with the trucks. This is not to say that the Dodges have been issue free but, they are certainly able to hold their own.

 

I think that the problems of the 6.0 can be solved. I hope the market will be patient with Ford until they have all of the issues solved. The IH/Ford relationship has been a good one and I have generally been happy with the product that is a result of this arrangement. However, in retrospect, it is sad to see how ill prepared this engine was when it was released to the market.

[PolarBear]

All that being said, Ford could do a better job of addressing customer concerns when they do happen, IMO. Every manufacturer has problems- it's how you address them that determines customer satisfaction.

Just to set a few items straight:

1) The 6.0 was introduced in late '03 in response to new emissions regulations, not '02 as the article stated.

2) The "slightly unrefined" 7.3 is still being sold in various overseas markets, and is much prized for it's power, durability, and reliability.

3) The problems experienced in the PSD were endemic of "Big Rig" diesels in '04 and '04 as well. Most of the issues relate to a uniquely American problem- we have the most stringent diesel emissions regulations in the world, coupled with the lowest quality diesel fuel avalable in any first-world country.

4) According to JD powers, the odds of having issues with a dodge are better than a Chevy (1st place) or a Ford (2nd place).

 

All that being said, Ford could do a better job of addressing customer concerns when they do happen, IMO. Every manufacturer has problems- it's how you address them that determines customer satisfaction.

Being a fleet manager of a large US corporation and give the fact that I talk to other fleet managers I will add my prospective.

 

1. The 6.0 WAS introduced in late 2002 in the 2003 MY.

We never saw 6.0's until early spring of '03, which in my end of the biz is "late" in the model year.

The 7.3 was sold for a few months of the MY, but production stopped on this engine for domestic use on October 31 2002. Engines built before that date could be shipped to Ford but no longer produced. This was due to the "Consent Decree" agreement that IH and the other diesel manufactures signed with the EPA. Cummins and GM also updated their emissions packages at the same time. What's more, this same engine was out even earlier in an International chassis as the VT365. I have some in IH chassis and it has been fairly trouble free.

 

2. The 7.3 was a great engine but it needed some upgrades and updates. It was getting a bit long in the tooth.

 

3. The issues in class 8 trucks with post October 2002 engines (called "10/02 engines" in the industry) have been mild when compared to the 6.0 PSD. Even then, Cummins has had fewer issues than the competition. Few of the issues with the PSD related to fuel quality. What more, the Cummins and the Duramax are burning the same stuff with far fewer problems. Neither company has had to abandon pilot injection as Ford has had to do with the 6.0.

 

4. It's great if the JD Power numbers make you feel better. However, my experiences with the Cummins and the Dodge have been very good. This includes the truck as well as the engine. I would say that the third generation Ram (post 2003) has been every bit as good as the competition. We held off on buying any of the PSD's in 2003 and 04. For two years we only bought Dodges in this vehicle type. We have some 2005 PSD's. They have been better than what I hear from others with the earlier engines, but they have not been as good as the Cummins. The out of service time is enough alone to tip the scale in favor of the Dodge. Six months ago we bought our first Duramax’s. So far the engines have been fine but we have had a few minor issues with the trucks. This is not to say that the Dodges have been issue free but, they are certainly able to hold their own.

 

I think that the problems of the 6.0 can be solved. I hope the market will be patient with Ford until they have all of the issues solved. The IH/Ford relationship has been a good one and I have generally been happy with the product that is a result of this arrangement. However, in retrospect, it is sad to see how ill prepared this engine was when it was released to the market.

 

I appreciate that post- you sound to be in a good position to see these motors in service. I do have a few customers running Class 8's in fleets (I'm not in that biz, so this is anecdotal), and their experience hasn't been quite as sanguine as yours- to put it mildly. We rarely see Dodge in the commercial arena out here because they don't do cab-chassis trucks in the same wheelbases as Ford or Chevy, so commercial/farm equipment is pretty much a choice of GM vs. Ford, and to a lesser extent Freightliner. The consensus I get is that Ford's chassis is superior in HD usage, but GM's powertrain is superior.

 

I'm also reasonably certain that '06 is the last year of the 6.0- ironic, since it seems to be pretty well worked out by now.

[01FOCI]

I'm also reasonably certain that '06 is the last year of the 6.0- ironic, since it seems to be pretty well worked out by now.

 

 

Oh really? What is going to replace it? Another version of it or a whole new design?

[JAAF150]

I appreciate that post- you sound to be in a good position to see these motors in service. I do have a few customers running Class 8's in fleets (I'm not in that biz, so this is anecdotal), and their experience hasn't been quite as sanguine as yours- to put it mildly. We rarely see Dodge in the commercial arena out here because they don't do cab-chassis trucks in the same wheelbases as Ford or Chevy, so commercial/farm equipment is pretty much a choice of GM vs. Ford, and to a lesser extent Freightliner. The consensus I get is that Ford's chassis is superior in HD usage, but GM's powertrain is superior.

 

I'm also reasonably certain that '06 is the last year of the 6.0- ironic, since it seems to be pretty well worked out by now.

 

PolarBear,

 

 

I was not trying to say that there were no issues with Class 8 truck engines. However, even some of the more serious issues have been easier to address than what was found with the PSD. I would guess that this is due to the fact that while the 6.0 PSD was based on the fairly new VT365 (and the ratings were completely new), the class 8 engines were all proven designs that had additional hardware added. No new designs or rating to deal with.

 

One issue that both have seemed to have in common is trouble with the vanes in the variable geometry turbo. Cummins has avoided this by developing a very simple and yet effective turbo that uses a sliding ring. Even if it malfunctions, the ring merely sticks in one place and you can limp home. When a vane lets loose, you can experience a great deal of engine damage and the loss of the turbo. In addition to IH/Ford, Detroit Diesel and Mack have had a number of issues with this. Detroit plans to buy turbo's from Cummins (Holset) starting in the fall of 2006 and Mack/Volvo are either buy turbo's from Cummins or have bought the rights to the design.

 

To accomplish the same thing, Cat went to an expensive twin turbo setup. I understand that IH/Ford will be using this as well in once the 6.4 is introduced.

 

The 6.4 will not be all new. It will be a vastly redesigned/upgraded 6.0. Let’s hope this drives the nail in the coffin of the "6.0 experience".

Edited December 15, 2005 by JAAF150

[KYSkipper]

Meanwhile those of us with an 04 6.0 POS that nobody wants to trade for feel like we've been screwed.

 

Skip

[KYSkipper]

they put a second mortgage on their house to buy a truck?

 

Anyone else see something wrong with that?

 

Not really, it's called tax deductible interest.

 

Skipper

[jimmy k7]

hi all, im a newbie here. i currently own a '03 6.0 and has been in the shop more than i want to say. this is my first ford and first truck. awesome truck, horrible motor. im now, as i speak, in the process of deciding what to do for my newest truck. ford has contacted me to "refund" my truck for an '06 model, or take the money and run. im leaning on the '06, but if i "run" what would i get? if i could have it my way, i'd get the ford with a cummins. that would be reliable. my main problem with the '03 6.0 is oil leaks. already had the motor replaced with a shortblock and its now leaking puddles! no kidding, the dealer has givin' up on fixing it probably cause the truck now cost $80,000.00. (all the servicing including labor and parts) so..... what gives. i dont like the chevy, and does dodge really know how to build a "real" truck?

 

 

 

pissed off & confused

[PolarBear]

hi all, im a newbie here. i currently own a '03 6.0 and has been in the shop more than i want to say. this is my first ford and first truck. awesome truck, horrible motor. im now, as i speak, in the process of deciding what to do for my newest truck. ford has contacted me to "refund" my truck for an '06 model, or take the money and run. im leaning on the '06, but if i "run" what would i get? if i could have it my way, i'd get the ford with a cummins. that would be reliable. my main problem with the '03 6.0 is oil leaks. already had the motor replaced with a shortblock and its now leaking puddles! no kidding, the dealer has givin' up on fixing it probably cause the truck now cost $80,000.00. (all the servicing including labor and parts) so..... what gives. i dont like the chevy, and does dodge really know how to build a "real" truck?

 

 

 

Just take the '06, IMO- they've been as reliable as the '03's were troublesome.

[mesg]

well welcome to the club..... got an 05 350 crew 4x4..just rolled over 5000kms.... and right now, today...my $61500 list cdn truck is back at the dealer again..for loss of power, smokin blue and white when starting hot and cold, another (most likely) defective turbo, and wtf else. As a 28 year ford employee, i have supported this company with the purchase of over 60 !!!!!!!!! new for vehicles for the family. I have owned 19 new trucks, 150, 250, 350`s in various forms, and NEVER had to be towed back to the dealer, or had so much service /warranty work done on my vehicles as i have in the last 5 years. My current truck has more than soured my opinion of my employer..

 

There is an old saying to which this company should take note of and engrain it into their thick (share holder equity driven heads) : a satisfied customer will tell anyone who asks, an unhappy/pissed off customer will tell anyone who will listen. guess which one i am???????

 

When you drop this much coin on a vehivle, you expect quailty and reliability. Bar None!!!

After driving and owning this truck i am amazed as to how much of the non-value items that have been ommitted from my previous trucks . Inner wheel skirts on the box, sound hood deadner, curtousy lights from the doors, footwell lights from the ip, door bracing from all 4 doors, ( t first i thought it was funny watching the door skin vibrate every time i closed it). the rear bumper is only 18 the thickness, and there is no topside to it, (you step through the plastic shielding if you don`t have a tailgate attached), no underpadding/sound deadner under the carpet, no lighted window/lockswitches, single poorly lit sun visors.. and the list goes on...

 

But that aside. according to all 3 local dealers, the 6.0 troubles have only gotten worse for the 05`s and 06`s.. Yeah, maybe, just maybe.... they get the problems ironed out for later 06`s... but wtf are they doin for the past and current owners of these head ache mired lemons??? nada squat zip zero.. just patchem up.. some times... if they can, or...as the AREA service rep has instructed the dealers to ell the customer......

THEY ARE ALL LIKE THAT!! and send the unit back to the customer... >I WAS TOLD THIS DIRECTLY<

and at present they (QUOTE) could not explain why i have a 40-50% power loss.

 

When i bought this unit ..new i july 05, i thought i had a new toy. the tourque on this truck was incredible.. did one hell of a hole shot, and pullin my 20.000 lb fifth wheel, i got almost 20 mpg @ 100kms/60 mph!!!

no runnin empty, no tail gate, i get 15-16 mpg @ 100kms. and the dealer cannot explain why..

 

 

so much for the rant, but this is typicle of many owners that i have run into at THE DEALER SERVICE DESKS

at what point would this company realize that ahem...maybe you did get the sale of this current vehicle but as for future sales to the same customer??? guess again... kiss your share holder equity and market share good buy....

 

replace the motors...with a drop in NEW!!! (complete) (not the warranty re-manned ones that you pawn off under warranty) and maybe quit snowin the public!!!!!!!

 

i got a few hours till the dealer is supposedly going to call me, ....or i call him, because they forgot again.. and i will keep you posted as to the diagnoses of these repeating problems.

[mesg]

:angry:

 

Well, its 11 pm here, had another non conclusive chat with the local dealer, yup theyknow its not running right, and sympathize, but with no codes, no failed parts, everything with in specs... all they could do is another re-program of the pcm.. ( 15 software updates so far for this pcm) everytime they change the software to correct one problem the software engineers change something that actually makes the truck run good, to another thing to upset the customer. Noted again, is the blue smoke billowing out the tail pipe, the lack of power and the hesitation upon acceleration, but a flat out NO from the area (oakville) regional rep to swap the motor, or to do un-necessary repairs when it still runs "in-spec". hmmm maybe the designers of this trouble plagued 6.0 and the customers who have purchased defective trucks should sit down and have a fist to fist to get the point across to those penny pinching controllers who give the final build go-aheads.

If this style of design and repair tactics keep going in the direction it is, there might not be any chance of recovery for the brand name, let alone market share increase. This company used to build GREAT!!!

products, quit skiming the nickles and dimes out of the products, and build tough trucks again...

 

i do not ask for nor give second chances... a lot of the american and canadian buyer have proven that point already.(market share). As a side note, another 05 was towed in while i was there, the guys 3rd.. turbo

in 6 months..it took the intercooler out with it when it blew. This is not a good pr situation. Time to step up to the plate and fix the current units on the road. Re-design/build better drive trains. I hope that the dual in-line

(small then large) turbo design doesn`t make it to market as planned. That design has more than proven to bet faulty. Ask mercedes, fiat and volkswagen about it.

[KYSkipper]

:angry:

 

Well, its 11 pm here, had another non conclusive chat with the local dealer, yup theyknow its not running right, and sympathize, but with no codes, no failed parts, everything with in specs... all they could do is another re-program of the pcm.. ( 15 software updates so far for this pcm) everytime they change the software to correct one problem the software engineers change something that actually makes the truck run good, to another thing to upset the customer. Noted again, is the blue smoke billowing out the tail pipe, the lack of power and the hesitation upon acceleration, but a flat out NO from the area (oakville) regional rep to swap the motor, or to do un-necessary repairs when it still runs "in-spec". hmmm maybe the designers of this trouble plagued 6.0 and the customers who have purchased defective trucks should sit down and have a fist to fist to get the point across to those penny pinching controllers who give the final build go-aheads.

If this style of design and repair tactics keep going in the direction it is, there might not be any chance of recovery for the brand name, let alone market share increase. This company used to build GREAT!!!

products, quit skiming the nickles and dimes out of the products, and build tough trucks again...

 

i do not ask for nor give second chances... a lot of the american and canadian buyer have proven that point already.(market share). As a side note, another 05 was towed in while i was there, the guys 3rd.. turbo

in 6 months..it took the intercooler out with it when it blew. This is not a good pr situation. Time to step up to the plate and fix the current units on the road. Re-design/build better drive trains. I hope that the dual in-line

(small then large) turbo design doesn`t make it to market as planned. That design has more than proven to bet faulty. Ask mercedes, fiat and volkswagen about it.

 

As far as I'm concerned, there's 2 possible cures for my 04 6.0.

 

Cure #1: Pull the 6.0 POJ and put in a 7.3 Powerstroke.

 

Cure #2: Pull the 6.0 POJ and put in a Cummins.

 

The engineer that came to look at mine said "It's running perfect." If perfect for a 6.0 means it can't pull a greasy string out of a cat's ass, Ford is in sad shape.

 

Skipper

[mesg]

well, i`m back.. no fixes to my lemon..and it`s past the time to refer to this truck as anything else..

rep says he`s done till it sets codes, or gets towed in... even though HE !!! drove it and couldn`t get past the 90 kmhr mark while the pedal was buried!!!!!!!! kinda makes you want to go buy a new honda right quick.

I`m un willing to go the camvap route as it is a joke, ya get three reps from ford/gm/chrysler to reccommend repairs that ford can`t get right the first time, or even diagnose.... so here`s the final pitch.....

 

I put out a request through a family acquaintance, and have gotten a financial backer... time to get legal.

didn`t want to go this route, but i`m left with no option, not to mention they`ve down right pissed me off.

we are gettin all pertinent data together, from tsb`s and recall, hopefully get some certification for class action/recall/replacement/re-purchase of ALL defective units.. currently have had a few conversations with

2 different litagators, and 1 automotive specialist in this area. I will keep this board updated when I have new information.. i do not ask for nor do i give second chances....

[bec5150]

Big point needs to be made here. No one is "really" upset that their truck is giving trouble, but they are EXTREMELY pissed that Ford isn't stepping up to fix the issues.

 

GM and Ford, read this. The treatment of the customer after the sale will be your undoing. Products break, issues get overlooked, and it's the service after the sale that will address these issues. Give each of these folks a truck to drive while you fix their truck and you will have a customer for life. Come clean, tell them that the engine is a piece of crap, and buy the trucks back. MAKE IT RIGHT.

 

This has been the experience of my Ranger vs CR-V, which the Honda has had MORE problems than the Ford, but the dealer reaction to problems has me looking towards Honda for my next car.

[jimmy k7]

i'm gonna be picking up my new '06 truck on wed night. all i have to pay is about $3500.00 plus what i owe.(and that isn't much) not too bad for a brand new truck, eh? i just hope i don't have any more oil leaks!

[ha paschold]

well, i`m back.. no fixes to my lemon..and it`s past the time to refer to this truck as anything else..

rep says he`s done till it sets codes, or gets towed in... even though HE !!! drove it and couldn`t get past the 90 kmhr mark while the pedal was buried!!!!!!!! kinda makes you want to go buy a new honda right quick.

I`m un willing to go the camvap route as it is a joke, ya get three reps from ford/gm/chrysler to reccommend repairs that ford can`t get right the first time, or even diagnose.... so here`s the final pitch.....

 

I put out a request through a family acquaintance, and have gotten a financial backer... time to get legal.

didn`t want to go this route, but i`m left with no option, not to mention they`ve down right pissed me off.

we are gettin all pertinent data together, from tsb`s and recall, hopefully get some certification for class action/recall/replacement/re-purchase of ALL defective units.. currently have had a few conversations with

2 different litagators, and 1 automotive specialist in this area. I will keep this board updated when I have new information.. i do not ask for nor do i give second chances....

 

had the same problems with my 60 van, ran like shit, no power, 35mph at most at times with pedal floored..

gave up and finally took to another dealer today, they found codes a plenty, replacing turbo, and turbo down pipe..... also had aweful exhaust fumes in the van..... lets see how things turn out......

 

i see other post s here regarding resale / trade values, went looking at gm s, 2 dealers low balled trade value, 1 dealer said, ferd 6.0, no thanks...... didnt want trade even if losing sale...

 

me buy another ford diesel? probally not until the 6.4 is out for at least 5 years....... i m not going to be a beta tester again

Edited February 21, 2006 by ha paschold

[2004 F250 King Lemon]

I own a 2004 F250 King Ranch with the 6.0 PSD with 18,204 miles on it. I am just wondering if every one that owns these trucks are having as much trouble as I am. I am getting the 4th turbo put on this week and the truck has been in the shop 21 times in the last year and a half. I get between 100 to 500 miles before the the EGR Valve, VGT Actuator, or the the turbo goes out. I am so dissatisfied with this truck. Ford has the nicest looking trucks around but the gremlins in this one are really getting to me. If I wouldn't loose my a** on trade in, it would have gone today. What is a person to do. The Ford Rep. wont do anything to help. I have gone through the arbitration board with the BBB. Who said that ford gets another 30 days to fix the vehicle. When they didnt get it fixed I called the BBB back and they said that was a miss print about the 30 days. Talk about a slap in the face. So not the attorney general has my paperwork and hopefully he will be able to help me out with this. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

[kevinb120]

Funny, I've sold about 100 of them and have never had a major complaint or any major mechanical issue with one. I think the worst was one who's inlet pipe came loose(5 minute fix). :shrug: Even the techs(who hate everything) have upgraded to 6.0 trucks. Personally I hate when I get stuck with a 7.3 to drive around.

 

And the dodge? It feels and sounds like it was designed around the time of the Korean war.

Edited February 23, 2006 by kevinb120

[cheri/ck]

I continue to find it interesting to read about this diesel disaster that Ford has on their hands. Started reading the posts several years ago when the 6.0 was first introduced on dieselstop.com and continue to monitor that sight. I'm not interested in buying a diesel, but I am interested in watching how Ford is responding to the problem. And, as a long-time Ford truck (gas) owner, I also feel skeptical about my next Ford truck purchase due to all the quality problems of late including the 5.4 VVT engine.

 

Anyway, it does seem that the 6.0 engines have been greatly improved since some point in 2005 from what I have been reading. There will of course always be those with problems and from what I gather, this is a very complicated engine to properly diagnose and repair. I agree that when a customer has continued problems and the dealer can't diagnose it or repair it - the customer deserves a new factory engine.

 

Ford has lost a lot of confidence in the minds of many long-time Ford customers. They should step up and resolve these types of issues. It's not that Toyota builds perfect products, but they tend to fix their problems and by so doing, they keep this sort of thing from being broadcast all over the internet. Even Nissan with all the design problems inherent in the Titan has customers that appreciate the effort that the company has displayed to try to fix their trucks.

[YT90SC]

What's wrong with the 5.4???

 

As far as the 6.0 is concerned, it is NOT difficult to diagnose or repair. The problem is few want to learn how. It really is simple. Same basic functions as the 7.3 with EGR and the VGT added. There is nothing complex or hard to fix about it at all. Too many blame driveability issues on programming, rather than fixing the truck.

The biggest lesson that most DON'T learn when learning to repair them is when there are repeat repairs of the same systems, there must be some other root cause. One truck I know had 13 injectors put in it by the same dealership. 13!!!! They just kept putting in injectors that were failing, not fixing the root cause, which was a HPOP having pups slowly puking metal into the injectors and killing them. Had the owner not changed dealerships, he would have just kept taking it back, and they wouldn't have fixed it, just fixed the symptom, furthering the 'they are all junk' B.S. that is so very rampant on boards like this.

Most of the problems arise from fuel issues including pump/pickup (45 psi minimum is CRITICAL), too long of oil chage intervals with wrong oil (remember oil fires the injectors), or customers using them as they weren't designed to. (tuners, lots of idling, etc)

As for fuel, The EPA gave the oil co's a waiver after the hurricanes down south for how much they have to refine the fuel, and it is very noticeable. Combine that with record fuel prices that have distributors feeding anything that will burn into the mix and the increased use of biodiesel, and you have fuel that is absolute sheet. Biodiesel will not actualy damage the engine, but it will damage the tanks and lines leading to fuel supply issues. (GM and Dodge are having troubles with this too) 5% biodiesel MAX!!!!!!!!! Moreover some aftermarkets sell the fuel filters seperately. The HFCM's primary filter is more important than the engine mounted secondary, yet because people see it as harder, they rarely change it.

Some complain about the lack of throttle response on the low end. You can thank the EPA for that. Since California declared particulate a carcinogen (sp?) the EPA has cracked down on that and all other diesel tailpipe emissions, leading to less fuel injected out of the hole because there is less boost available at idle. Less boost is less air. Less air must have less fuel injected to not cause higher emissions.

To say that the other makers don't have troubles is hooey too. They have issues too due to the fuel and emissions standards.

[danglin]

Funny, I've sold about 100 of them and have never had a major complaint or any major mechanical issue with one. I think the worst was one who's inlet pipe came loose(5 minute fix). :shrug: Even the techs(who hate everything) have upgraded to 6.0 trucks. Personally I hate when I get stuck with a 7.3 to drive around.

 

And the dodge? It feels and sounds like it was designed around the time of the Korean war.

 

My 2004 6.0 built in januay 04 has been pretty much trouble free. I had a romping problem which did not start until I changed the oil and put Rotella in it. A reflash solved that. I had two recalls performed on it. I have been very happy with mine.

 

I have two buddys one that had a 2003 6.0 Excursion, He had nothing but problems (driveability, turbo, oil leaks) with it, and ended up getting rid of it for a dodge truck with a cummins. Before he got rid of it, he told me not to buy a 6.0.

 

The other buddy bought a 2004 dodge cummins and has had driveability problems, oil leak, poor fuel mileage and had to have all of the injectors replaced within the first year of ownership. His dealer experience was'nt the best either. Had to take it back several times.

[rbrodder]

:angry: I Purchased a New 03 Excursion that was built early May 03. I Had a free oil change for the first service at 5000 miles. On the Second Oil Change I performed myself and the vehicle had just 9xxx some odd miles on it. To my surprise I captured 4 1/2 gallons of oil, as that was all my drain pan held. I took this and the filing from the drain plug and the filter that had flakes of copper and aluminum in it to the purchasing dealer. There response was thats normal...I surely did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday and now it has been since May of 04 dealing with this mess off a problem.

 

Three dealers and seven or eight trips to the dealerships with the oil level at various levels of 1 to 2 inches overfull. I even went as far as to have the oil analyzed on my dollar to prove the extent of the problem(greater than 10% Fuel dilution safter 3500 miles).

Do you think they would have changed the Injectors? I have tried the DSB route and was awarded a new engine and the Dealers response was a rebuilt engine will be just as good as a new engine.... That might be fine on their $49,900.00 rig but not on my hard earned dollar. My case is set for a Court hearing next week and after this long I will be damned if I am going to back off now. I really liked the Truck except for I was let down on satisfaction for repairs and after the sale fixes to major problems(I forgot to mention the slop in the torqueshift planetary gears, I was told that was normal also) If customer satisfaction is the last thing on Ford's Mind than maybe Ford should be tha last thing on my mind when I purchase a replacement vehicle.

 

I have driven Fords since the late 70's and have been purchasing new ones since 1988. My 1996 F-250 7.3l PSD was a damned good truck and unfortunately I sold it last fall.

 

My 64000 dollar quesation to Ford is why the heck did they not just change the darned defective injectors to begin with?