silvrsvt Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Explaining why its selling so crappy? According to Modica, a Chicago dealer selling a Volt with 10 miles on the odometer flat-out admitted that it would be seeking the credit for itself: "When I asked if I was eligible for the $7,500 tax credit, I was told that I probably wasn't, since the dealership was applying for the subsidy." Even stranger, a Kia dealer in California was selling a Volt that had just 30 miles on it, and Modica was told that "the Volts offered at that dealership were rental cars with higher mileage on them." http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/31/are-chevy-dealers-gaming-the-system-to-keep-volts-7-500-consum/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Keep in mind Modica is an ex-Saturn dealer, possibly with an ax to grind. In any event, it wouldn't be a surprise if a crooked multi-make dealership chain would resort to selling Volts between franchises to collect the $7500 rebate. The Volt is selling, at least where I am. And if it wasn't selling, GM would not be increasing production. And, all you performance car/light truck fans better hope the Volt and cars like to do sell, because without their effect on CAFE you could just about kiss anything larger and more powerful than a Focus goodbye in a few very short years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 The Volt is selling, at least where I am. And if it wasn't selling, GM would not be increasing production. Going from miniscule-scle production to small-scale production doesn't exactly signal a resounding success. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 larger and more powerful than a Focus Pretty sure the Fusion 4 cylinder is 2016 CAFE compliant, which means that everything under that is also 2016 CAFE compliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 The Volt is selling, at least where I am. And if it wasn't selling, GM would not be increasing production. And, all you performance car/light truck fans better hope the Volt and cars like to do sell, because without their effect on CAFE you could just about kiss anything larger and more powerful than a Focus goodbye in a few very short years. I don't recall seeing one on the road yet...and this coming from someone who has seen tons of 2012 Foci and Explorers on the road. I don't think there is a huge market for a 40K car anyways..even with a 7500 rebate on it. Not to mention a SFE Focus only costs about $1750 for the year for gas and a Volt is $594 electric only (at .11 cents a kwH) and $1661 for gas only operation, thus putting the total amount somewhere in the middle of those two numbers depending on driving conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Pretty sure the Fusion 4 cylinder is 2016 CAFE compliant, which means that everything under that is also 2016 CAFE compliant. It is not necessarily a question of if a particular vehicle is under the CAFE requirement, but a question of what is the average fuel economy of all subject vehicles sold by a particular manufacturer. I too am sure the current Fusion 4 cylinder meets the 2016 standard, but the F-150 Raptor for instance does not. The number of Raptors Ford will be allowed to sell under CAFE in 2016 will depend on how many cars like the 4 cylinder Fusion Ford is able to sell, thus influencing the average. Plug-in hybrids and full electrics really help here. The Volt is a first step. I think plug-ins will eventually constitute the majority of passenger cars sold in the U.S. within 10 years, unless bio-fuel really takes off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I don't recall seeing one on the road yet...and this coming from someone who has seen tons of 2012 Foci and Explorers on the road. I don't think there is a huge market for a 40K car anyways..even with a 7500 rebate on it. Not to mention a SFE Focus only costs about $1750 for the year for gas and a Volt is $594 electric only (at .11 cents a kwH) and $1661 for gas only operation, thus putting the total amount somewhere in the middle of those two numbers depending on driving conditions. Is the Volt available in your area yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) It is not necessarily a question of if a particular vehicle is under the CAFE requirement, but a question of what is the average fuel economy of all subject vehicles sold by a particular manufacturer. I too am sure the current Fusion 4 cylinder meets the 2016 standard, but the F-150 Raptor for instance does not. The number of Raptors Ford will be allowed to sell under CAFE in 2016 will depend on how many cars like the 4 cylinder Fusion Ford is able to sell, thus influencing the average. Plug-in hybrids and full electrics really help here. The Volt is a first step. I think plug-ins will eventually constitute the majority of passenger cars sold in the U.S. within 10 years, unless bio-fuel really takes off. A vehicle that sells in volumes as low as the Raptor has very, very minimal impact to a manufacturer's overall CAFE. Although it is probably raising Ford's CAFE more than the Volt is currently lowering GM's. Edited May 31, 2011 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) A vehicle that sells in volumes as low as the Raptor has very, very minimal impact to a manufacturer's overall CAFE. Although it is probably raising Ford's CAFE more than the Volt is currently lowering GM's. True, I was using the Raptor as an extreme example. But, by 2016 it looks like NONE of the current F-150's, Ecoboost included, would meet the CAFE average by themselves. So, if Ford wants to sell F-150's in decent numbers, they have to move large numbers of cars like the Fiesta, Focus, and 4 cylinder Fusion. And naturally a hybrid that the EPA THINKS gets 95 m.p.g. (regardless if it actually does!) will mean the opportunity to sell a lot more (high profit) F-150's. Of course, it isn't just Ford. Edited May 31, 2011 by 7Mary3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Fiesta, Focus, and 4 cylinder Fusion. Those vehicles together are already selling in volumes relatively similar to the F-series. Add in the relatively efficient Escape (and other upcoming vehicles like the C-Max) and this CAFE "problem" is already pretty much resolved for the foreseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 Is the Volt available in your area yet? Yep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 My understanding is that Ford is already very close to meeting all 2016 CAFE requirements. We have to remember that the numbers are based off of the old EPA numbers, not the current ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 This scam could turn out to be more of an outrage than the Clunkers and the same turkey is behind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 This scam could turn out to be more of an outrage than the Clunkers and the same turkey is behind it. This scam (if there is one) has nothing to do with C4C or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) This scam (if there is one) has nothing to do with C4C or the other. Obama signed into law the "cash for clunkers" program which was supposed to be a subsidary for us but really was a subsidary for Obama Motors companies, and the $7,500 federal tax credit was passed to sell Obama's Chevy Volts that nobody wants and GM is now pocketing the money. These scams are exactly alike. Edited June 1, 2011 by Bryan1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 GM Admits that Dealerships are Taking Chevy Volt Tax Credits Automobilemag.com reports that General Motors has responded to my report questioning whether dealerships are gaming Chevy Volt tax credits. Chevy Volt spokesperson, Rob Peterson, states that "NLPC is confused." He then goes on to confirm that the dealerships purchasing Chevy Volts and reselling them as used vehicles are entitled to the $7,500 tax credit. Clearly, it is GM that is confused, considering that this was the main point of my report. GM does not deny that Chevy dealerships are selling Chevy Volts to other dealerships, including a KIA dealership, for resale. At the same time, Peterson also touts the high demand for Volts claiming, "we don't sell Volts at the moment - it's almost like we deliver them." By this statement, you wouldn't know that sales for the Volt averaged a dismally low 425 per month for the first four months of the year. GM recently stated that they had the capacity to build at a pace of 17,000 per year. So, here's a question for GM and Mr. Peterson: If demand is so high for the Chevy Volt, why would a Chevy dealership sell the vehicle to other dealerships, particularly when there are supposedly customers lined up to pay full price? The answer seems clear to me. GM is exaggerating the "high demand" for the Volt. And allowing dealerships to take the tax credit intended for consumers is just wrong. Our tax dollars at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weiweishen Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Explaining why its selling so crappy? [/color][/size][/font] http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/31/are-chevy-dealers-gaming-the-system-to-keep-volts-7-500-consum/ Fox news also reported that GM dealers sold Volt to each other to claim the government incentive credit. I still have not see any Volt on the road except one with a manufacture tag during last Christmas. I did see 3 leaf so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Fox news "news-ertainment" also reported that GM dealers sold Volt to each other to claim the government incentive credit. I still have not see any Volt on the road except one with a manufacture tag during last Christmas. I did see 3 leaf so far. fixed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 How can they do this? The rules clearly state: The vehicle is acquired for use or lease by the taxpayer, and not for resale. (The credit is only available to the original purchaser of a new, qualifying vehicle. If a qualifying vehicle is leased to a consumer, the leasing company may claim the credit.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 fixed.... Let's not drag this crap out of the off-topic section please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Let's not drag this crap out of the off-topic section please. I agree. Keep the political pot-shots where they belong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Governments should not use taxpayers money $7,500 to bribe buyers to buy Chevy's Volt in the first place they should sell themselves on merit, and now Chevy want to muscle in on your rebates its all perverted. These cars like the Prius use some of the most filthy manufacturing process of an car they should be banned. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk UK taxpayers have to bailout electric cars because nobody wants to buy them to the tune of $8,200, despite the massive bribe electric car sales are close to "ZERO" because no one wants them. UK will be starting to get hit with power cuts big time in a few years time as they start to decommission a lot of its old power stations with nothing new in the pipe line for at least 10 years, Germany already said last week that it will close decommission every nuclear power station in Germany ASAP and they will not be replacing them with nuclear power ever again, l think Japan will also go the same way. Places like Britain, Germany & Japan will be facing lots of blackouts electrical power supply shortages which will make electric vehicles very unpopular as folk have to sit at home with candles in the dark, owners of electric cars will be left with flat batteries every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 This scam could turn out to be more of an outrage than the Clunkers and the same turkey is behind it. That tax credit dates back to either the Bush administration or the Clinton administration. It's not a new program. And there will be no more political posturing on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) NONE of the current F-150's the 2WD 3.7L gets roughly 26MPG combined on the CAFE cycle. By 2016 the average for *all* light trucks (including the Explorer, Escape, Flex and Edge) must be 28.8MPG. While it's true that no F150 meets the CAFE standard for light trucks, it's also true that they don't *need* to meet the CAFE. They just need to be close enough. Edited June 3, 2011 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 But "Bush and Clinton" - that was a waste of tax dollars, too. The credit for Obama's Volt is more than double. Governments should not use taxpayers money $7,500 to bribe buyers to buy Chevy's Volt in the first place they should sell themselves on merit, and now Chevy want to muscle in on your rebates its all perverted. You are absolutely correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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