DC Car Examiner Posted September 17, 2011 Author Share Posted September 17, 2011 Now posted: 10th place (Toyota Corolla): http://www.examiner.com/cars-in-national/comparison-review-ten-compact-sedans-10th-place 9th place (Kia Forte): http://www.examiner.com/cars-in-national/comparison-review-ten-compact-sedans-9th-place And a sidebar review of the Forte SX five-door: http://www.examiner.com/cars-in-national/review-2011-kia-forte-sx-hatchback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 The two cars I had for a week out of this comparison were the Civic (eighth place) and Elantra (fourth place). More time offers more of a chance to find both strengths and flaws. And reviews state opinions. That's what they are. Reviews that don't take a stance don't say anything, or at the very least don't say anything different from any other review. A useful review isn't naming a bunch of specs and describing feature content. To state whether a car is good at something is, for the most part, someone's opinion. If one car was factually better than another, everyone would just buy that one. That's why many reviews state what the review's objective is. Like "Best Economy Sedan Under $17K, for a someone with size 14 feet who really wants a 66 Bonneville with 40 MPGs" (my best guess to your point) They need not be biases, rather they are realistic limitations that most people face. The closest to a mission statement is: Over the coming days, this comparison will seek to separate the great models from the poor, to identify which car best suits which driver, and to ultimately crown the king of today's crowd of new and improved compact sedans. Here you could have had a meaningful review without picking a "King".....again, for a type of driver you don't state. I understand the need for an ultimate award, it's expected. Clearly the Focus would be for the person who appreciates driving. A useful review isn't naming a bunch of specs and describing feature content. Alone, no. But it is necessary, and it's what your reviews lack. It's not just filling in the background, it's VERY important information. http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/original/application/885057c7884d97ed3451c1910b11662d.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 ...seats the same as the drivers, yet less comfortable....maybe its the footwell?. As for the drivers seat, damn comfy, maybe one of the best contoured seats Ford has made, and the steering wheel on the Titanium I drove yesterday is EXCELLENT. I also found the Mk3 Focus' driver's seat to be very supportive, and the steering wheel nicely positioned and "meaty". Not having experienced the front passenger seat in this car, I decided to give it a test sit yesterday following the Minnesota Ford Enthusiasts 2011 Fall Car Show (the show was fantastic, as always :happy feet:). Surprisingly to me, the front passenger position was significantly less comfortable. It's not the seat itself, but the design of the center console and footwell (just as you mention) which leaves scant room for positioning one's legs comfortably. To both DC Car Examiner and Deanh, thank you! I learned something that I hadn't thought about previously. Not surprising, unfortunately, was the atrocious build quality of the Focus I sat in. In addition to the flaws pictured below (note- the rear passenger door in the second picture is fully closed :o), the hood was misaligned as well. Since this particular Focus was at a different dealership than those I photographed previously, it definitely points to the U.S. assembly plant for the Focus as the culprit. Quality control at this plant seems to be a lost cause. Unless Ford decides to produce the U.S. market Focus at one of their better North American assembly plants like Hermosillo or Cuautitlán, or import the car from Germany, I'm not recommending the Focus to family or friends in the States. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Thanks for the pics, aneeker. It's astounding that 1. These cars leave the factory, 2. These cars pass "inspection" at the dealership as they're delivered, and 3. They make it through lot prep and out to the sales floor without anything being done! Here comes a HUGE favor to those of you who work at Ford lots: Can you check your most recent deliveries of 2012 Focus and see if these issues persist in newer builds? I'm considering putting a piece together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I also found the Mk3 Focus' driver's seat to be very supportive, and the steering wheel nicely positioned and "meaty". Not having experienced the front passenger seat in this car, I decided to give it a test sit yesterday following the Minnesota Ford Enthusiasts 2011 Fall Car Show (the show was fantastic, as always :happy feet:). Surprisingly to me, the front passenger position was significantly less comfortable. It's not the seat itself, but the design of the center console and footwell (just as you mention) which leaves scant room for positioning one's legs comfortably. To both DC Car Examiner and Deanh, thank you! I learned something that I hadn't thought about previously. Not surprising, unfortunately, was the atrocious build quality of the Focus I sat in. In addition to the flaws pictured below (note- the rear passenger door in the second picture is fully closed :o), the hood was misaligned as well. Since this particular Focus was at a different dealership than those I photographed previously, it definitely points to the U.S. assembly plant for the Focus as the culprit. Quality control at this plant seems to be a lost cause. Unless Ford decides to produce the U.S. market Focus at one of their better North American assembly plants like Hermosillo or Cuautitlán, or import the car from Germany, I'm not recommending the Focus to family or friends in the States. eeek, that door looks like its ajar....shouldnt have even gotten to the dealer in that state, and shame on the guys that check the vehicles off the transporter....at least at our dealer, faults are noticed and they go right back to the body shop. That said Ive noticed NO issues on any of the Focii coming in here, and we have had a bunch...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 Now posted: 8th place: Honda Civic http://www.examiner.com/cars-in-national/comparison-review-ten-compact-sedans-8th-place 7th place: Mazda3 http://www.examiner.com/cars-in-national/comparison-review-ten-compact-sedans-7th-place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 eeek, that door looks like its ajar....shouldnt have even gotten to the dealer in that state, and shame on the guys that check the vehicles off the transporter....at least at our dealer, faults are noticed and they go right back to the body shop. That said Ive noticed NO issues on any of the Focii coming in here, and we have had a bunch...... That is late 70's early 80's style build quality there. I can't believe vehicles like that ever made it through final inspection at the factory. The old Focus wasn't much to brag about, but I never saw fit and finish issues like that. Granted it is a new car line in a new factory so I assume it is going to take some time to work out the kinks. If things like this are showing up after a few more months though I'd say Ford better look deeper into the issue. You certainly don't want to make a first impression to a Corolla or Civic owner thinking about trying Ford for the first time with a Focus built like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 That is late 70's early 80's style build quality there. I can't believe vehicles like that ever made it through final inspection at the factory. The old Focus wasn't much to brag about, but I never saw fit and finish issues like that. Granted it is a new car line in a new factory so I assume it is going to take some time to work out the kinks. If things like this are showing up after a few more months though I'd say Ford better look deeper into the issue. You certainly don't want to make a first impression to a Corolla or Civic owner thinking about trying Ford for the first time with a Focus built like this. The curious part is Dean says he's never seen a problem like that, so at the very least it doesn't seem to be a pervasive problem. I wonder if shipping has anything to do with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 The curious part is Dean says he's never seen a problem like that, so at the very least it doesn't seem to be a pervasive problem. I wonder if shipping has anything to do with it? either that or our delivery checkers are on the ball and they get to the bodyshop before they are seen by the general public...I will ask my guys today what they have observed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I'm shocked how many on here have bought first year 2012 Focus. What happened to the old new car axiom of never buying a first year all new vehicle? It usually takes the factory a year to solve first year glitches, and sometimes longer. A buddy of mine bought the 2012 Focus after owning three previous Foci, and he is not happy with this 2012 Focus SEL. The dual clutch trans is a pain in the ass. He told me that when he comes up to red light and it turns green before full stop, there is huge hesitation before vehicle gets going again which is very disconcerting. After a couple thousand miles, the trans has not improved much. As for fit and finish problems, I have not noticed many problems on new Focus I have seen on lot, but then again it's not like Ford dealers have much of an inventory of them as it is. From, what I have heard, I would not touch a 2012 Focus. Maybe a 2013 or 2014 if and when MAP gets its act together. Current Drives: 2002 Matador Red Taurus SES Sport 2001 Orient Red Metallic Porsche Boxster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 (edited) I'm shocked how many on here have bought first year 2012 Focus. What happened to the old new car axiom of never buying a first year all new vehicle? It usually takes the factory a year to solve first year glitches, and sometimes longer. A buddy of mine bought the 2012 Focus after owning three previous Foci, and he is not happy with this 2012 Focus SEL. The dual clutch trans is a pain in the ass. He told me that when he comes up to red light and it turns green before full stop, there is huge hesitation before vehicle gets going again which is very disconcerting. After a couple thousand miles, the trans has not improved much. As for fit and finish problems, I have not noticed many problems on new Focus I have seen on lot, but then again it's not like Ford dealers have much of an inventory of them as it is. From, what I have heard, I would not touch a 2012 Focus. Maybe a 2013 or 2014 if and when MAP gets its act together. As DC Car Examiner's comparison test indicates, the Mk3 Focus does have some appealing characteristics, particularly in the realm of driving dynamics. Additionally, one can avoid the horribly flawed MyFordTouch infotainment system and PowerShift transmission by specifying an SE Sport 5MT model. I was initially keen on recommending this particular configuration to friends and family. But the numerous sample defects I've seen on new Foci supposedly prepped for retail sale dampened my enthusiasm for the U.S. made Mk3 Focus. In light of the design and manufacturing defects that affect the U.S. market 2012 Focus, it certainly seems prudent to avoid this model for now. I guess BON members who did buy one have acknowledged and accepted the risk associated with their purchase. 2012 Mazda3, despite earning only a 7th place finish in this comparison, is my other favorite. I'm particularly looking forward to test driving the new SKYACTIV version. Edited September 30, 2011 by aneekr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I've been in Albany, NY for the last week driving a Ford Focus Hatchback. My impressions....... Handles almost as well as my fomer Miata. Ride better than I expected from a small car. Acceleration better than I'd expected. Transmission seems to lurch without brakes applied. Probably explained by lack of torque converter slip. Shifting from the auto-tranny can be harsher than I could achieve on my own with a 5-speed, particularly at low speeds. This transmission appears happier when you're flooring the accelerator. (also, too easy to pass "D" and go to "S") The car I'm driving is an SEL. Many features that I'd probably come to appreciate if I owned the car, but there are so many buttons, I've had a hard time figuring out the basics. Small, but mildly annoying wind noise that appears to come from door window pillar for back seat. Window/door seals appear intact, so not sure of the reason. Seat is comfortable for me (at 5'10" and ~180 lbs). I doubt I'd be comfortable if I were more than 6' or 30 lbs heavier. Mileage is about 28-29 overall in mixed driving. Took me awhile to figure out how to reset trip odometer so I could get this. No noticeable flaws in manufacture. Trim is solid. Doors not misaligned at all. No obvious flaws in paint. Rear hatch is something I haven't had since '78 Honda I had in high school. Decent amount of space, but not huge (it IS a small car after all) Backing up can be a little tough at times. Rear window is a bit small. Large side mirrors are a help, and don't hinder side/forward view. No overwhelming sense of being in a cocoon while driving. Those are just impressions, coming from a guy in a rental for one week. I'd never driven a Focus before and was looking forward to it. Overall it seems decent, but it would not keep me from looking at the competition (or the Focus sedan) were I in the market for a small car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 As DC Car Examiner's comparison test indicates, the Mk3 Focus does have some appealing characteristics, particularly in the realm of driving dynamics. Additionally, one can avoid the horribly flawed MyFordTouch infotainment system and PowerShift transmission by specifying an SE Sport 5MT model. I was initially keen on recommending this particular configuration to friends and family. But the numerous sample defects I've seen on new Foci supposedly prepped for retail sale dampened my enthusiasm for the U.S. made Mk3 Focus. In light of the design and manufacturing defects that affect the U.S. market 2012 Focus, it certainly seems prudent to avoid this model for now. I guess BON members who did buy one have acknowledged and accepted the risk associated with their purchase. 2012 Mazda3, despite earning only a 7th place finish in this comparison, is my other favorite. I'm particularly looking forward to test driving the new SKYACTIV version. I've been meaning to ask - what does Mk3 mean? Why on Earth would you not recommend a vehicle based strictly on a few cosmetic problems that would be easily fixed before taking delivery - if they haven't already been fixed before you see them? These aren't recurring problems or long term issues - they're one time fixes at worst. Is it disappointing? Sure. Is it a deal breaker? I don't see how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianinswfla Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Why on Earth would you not recommend a vehicle based strictly on a few cosmetic problems that would be easily fixed before taking delivery - if they haven't already been fixed before you see them? These aren't recurring problems or long term issues - they're one time fixes at worst. Is it disappointing? Sure. Is it a deal breaker? I don't see how. I can't speak for anyone else but seeing some of the cosmetic issues that is shown in these pictures would lead me to wonder what else was wrong that I can't see. Cosmetic issues are not recurring problems but it would certainly raise a red flag with me about the quality of the vehicle. Only time will tell if that is the case with the new Focus. It is disappointing to me because we had considered moving from our current Mazda 3 to a new Focus. Now I think we will wait a bit longer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I can't speak for anyone else but seeing some of the cosmetic issues that is shown in these pictures would lead me to wonder what else was wrong that I can't see. Cosmetic issues are not recurring problems but it would certainly raise a red flag with me about the quality of the vehicle. Only time will tell if that is the case with the new Focus. It is disappointing to me because we had considered moving from our current Mazda 3 to a new Focus. Now I think we will wait a bit longer. If the dealer prep guys were doing their job you would never even see these problems and I'm sure they happen on all cars from time to time. My daughter's is 3 months old and we haven't had or seen a single problem (including the transmission). I just don't understand the paranoia over a few isolated cosmetic issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 If the dealer prep guys were doing their job you would never even see these problems and I'm sure they happen on all cars from time to time. My daughter's is 3 months old and we haven't had or seen a single problem (including the transmission). I just don't understand the paranoia over a few isolated cosmetic issues. I must say, I remember seeing a lot of terribly misaligned trunk lids on first year Fusions back in 2006 or so. Again, first year all new vehicles are not going to be anywhere near as good as they will be when factory finally sorts its problems out. Add in dual clutch, clunky trans and problematic MFT, and Ford hopefully is getting good handle on these problems. Ford does have its hands full though with all new Escape and Fusion not that far away. Lots of new product not that far away. Should keep the Ford quality control experts busy for an extended length of time. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Current Drives: 2002 Matador Red Ford Taurus SES Sport 2001 Orient Red Metallic Boxster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Why on Earth would you not recommend a vehicle based strictly on a few cosmetic problems that would be easily fixed before taking delivery - if they haven't already been fixed before you see them? These aren't recurring problems or long term issues - they're one time fixes at worst. Is it disappointing? Sure. Is it a deal breaker? I don't see how. Because if there are glaring issues you can actually see, it is a logical assumption there may be more you cannot see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 (edited) Because if there are glaring issues you can actually see, it is a logical assumption there may be more you cannot see. The same reason it's best to marry a drop-dead gorgeous blonde. Judge a book by the cover! Yes, I am being a little fecetious here. Edited September 30, 2011 by fordmantpw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Because if there are glaring issues you can actually see, it is a logical assumption there may be more you cannot see. May be logical to you - it's not logical to me given the history of other Ford vehicles and the fact that stuff like this happens with any product - it's just normally fixed before you ever see it. It certainly doesn't look good to prospective customers - I'll agree with that. But I wouldn't let something like that deter me from buying a vehicle I otherwise liked. I could understand some reluctance based on the transmission complaints - at least that's not a cosmetic issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Because if there are glaring issues you can actually see, it is a logical assumption there may be more you cannot see. and like Ive said, Ive yet to see ANY.....i think theres more to this story than we know..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 The same reason it's best to marry a drop-dead gorgeous blonde. Judge a book by the cover! Yes, I am being a little fecetious here. the extrerior only lasts so long then BAM, 1/2 your house is gone........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 The same reason it's best to marry a drop-dead gorgeous blonde. Judge a book by the cover! Like someone once said - no matter how drop dead gorgeous she may be, somewhere there's a man that's tired of her sh*t! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I can't speak for anyone else but seeing some of the cosmetic issues that is shown in these pictures would lead me to wonder what else was wrong that I can't see. Cosmetic issues are not recurring problems but it would certainly raise a red flag with me about the quality of the vehicle. Only time will tell if that is the case with the new Focus. It is disappointing to me because we had considered moving from our current Mazda 3 to a new Focus. Now I think we will wait a bit longer. aneekr has done a good job of overstating a problem IMHO. I've searched around and have not found anything (other than the dual-clutch automatic) that people are complaining about. Nothing about fit/finish issues. Saying he wouldn't recommend it "Unless Ford decides to produce the U.S. market Focus at one of their better North American assembly plants like Hermosillo or Cuautitlán, or import the car from Germany (???)." is overkill. I'm guessing a couple of lazy dealerships that would rather sell as is, since the demand is high. A marginal Dealer Prep.....and out the door they go. This is definitely a warranty issue, easy enough to fix before going on the dealer lot. It probably shouldn't have gotten there in the first place, from the assembly plant, like that. I doubt it is the norm and will only get better in a few months. I looked at few (with the 5 speed manual) and I didn't notice any fitment issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianinswfla Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 It probably shouldn't have gotten there in the first place, from the assembly plant, like that. This is my point. If they missed something that obvious at the plant then what else did they miss? Not that I think it means the end of the world either. Just something that would concern me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I've been meaning to ask - what does Mk3 mean? It's shorthand for "third generation" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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