RichardJensen Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 And I'll add it to my "American consumers are idiots" book. You'll never lose money by selling the American public short, but you'll never make money telling them that 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I think a lot of it has to do with software and/or manufacturing tolerances. As I reported before my daughter's new 2012 Focus has no shudder at all, even at low speeds. And that's with 120 miles on the odo. I think in another year or so there won't be any complaints about the dry clutch DCT. Maybe the Powershift supplier has been under pressure by Ford to improve the manuafacturing tolerances and software package on it and has done so already so that Focus now being shipped will be much improved. ANOTHER REASON to not buy first year all new vehicle. Second year Focus buyers are probably going to have much better owner experience. Only downside is that there will be over 125,000 on road before they join them. First year buyers will be at dealership more getting stuff fixed. Second year buyers will be on road more enjoying their new Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackintire Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Fuel economy increase, weight savings. Ding Ding Ding...we have a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Maybe the Powershift supplier has been under pressure by Ford to improve the manufacturing tolerances and software package on it and has done so already so that Focus now being shipped will be much improved. ANOTHER REASON to not buy first year all new vehicle. Second year Focus buyers are probably going to have much better owner experience. Only downside is that there will be over 125,000 on road before they join them. First year buyers will be at dealership more getting stuff fixed. Second year buyers will be on road more enjoying their new Focus. Only downside? Here on BON... we have demonstrated where the American consumer goes when they are dissatisfied with a Big 3 product. They buy imports... and may never return to a Big 3 product. I just about left the Ford family when my 2010 Fusion had transmission issues and just about killed us on the Interstate.. and that is added to the long list of problems we had with our '05 F-350. I gave Ford " one more chance".... so far.. so good with our '11 Fusion that has 36700 miles on it. And I might add that my wife is still waiting to say, "I told you so."... I'm guessing that nearly 50% of the Toyota, Honda, Mazda USA consumers are because they had poor experiences with American Big 3 products. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackintire Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Only downside? Here on BON... we have demonstrated where the American consumer goes when they are dissatisfied with a Big 3 product. They buy imports... and may never return to a Big 3 product. I just about left the Ford family when my 2010 Fusion had transmission issues and just about killed us on the Interstate.. and that is added to the long list of problems we had with our '05 F-350. I gave Ford " one more chance".... so far.. so good with our '11 Fusion that has 36700 miles on it. And I might add that my wife is still waiting to say, "I told you so."... I'm guessing that nearly 50% of the Toyota, Honda, Mazda USA consumers are because they had poor experiences with American Big 3 products. Yep, our 2006 Fusion's PCM took a dump in the middle of the intersection on a busy highway. I was not happy about it. That would be my first and only break down ever. I don't expect thing like that to occur at 60,000 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 I think www.truedelta.com/ and Consumer Reports have shown that the DCT had a lot of issues in the Fiesta and the Focus. Fiesta issues where mostly a grounding strap issue..not a performance/grinding issue.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 That's the thing, who has the wet clutch version? I would love to have both in back to back driving plus the Mazda version. In addition to the EU market Fords that jpd80 mentioned, several Volvo cars use the hydraulically actuated, wet clutch PowerShift transmission. (LINK) Fiesta issues where mostly a grounding strap issue..not a performance/grinding issue.. Apart from the faulty ground strap, TrueDelta still reported a higher than average incidence of transmission failure for U.S. market, PowerShift equipped 2011 Ford Fiestas, as did Consumer Reports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Transmission failure or transmission issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss444 Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Do you bother to read compact comparo tests at all? Or better yet, did you go out and test drive about 10 compacts or so? He O-W-N-E-D a new Focus and had such a bad experience with it, he bought something else. It doesn't matter what the review said from the rags (<-- BON term, not mine). I'm no fan of the Corolla, but to continue to rail on him because his Ford was riddled with problems seems a tad ignorant. If he didn't have such a bad experience with the Focus, he wouldn't be in a Corolla. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 He O-W-N-E-D a new Focus and had such a bad experience with it, he bought something else. It doesn't matter what the review said from the rags (<-- BON term, not mine). I'm no fan of the Corolla, but to continue to rail on him because his Ford was riddled with problems seems a tad ignorant. If he didn't have such a bad experience with the Focus, he wouldn't be in a Corolla. This But its all good Boss444. I'm not paying attention to his little rants anyway. The Corolla is a good car and regardless of what FordBuyer or any other detractors about the car here want to believe I am really enjoying it. It has a very smooth powertrian. Far smoother than the Focus was to be sure. I'm getting better mpg in the Corolla on my daily commute than I was in the Focus. (So much for the DCT improving mpg) It has a nice ride, handles well, and the cabin is quiet even at highway speed. But I've made all of these points already. This notion that I bought a compact car for it's excitement value is actually laughable to me. Who does that? It's a compact car. It's primary purpose is to be reliable, fuel efficient and deliver a good ride. The only car I can think of in this segment that has any real "excitment" value is the Subaru WRX, possibly the Lancer EVO, maybe the the Focus ST when it comes out but I think we all know I'm not going to buy one of those. lol You want to be mister excitment in your car? The Focus isn't it. It's just a commuter car with some nice features. Yes it has a decent body design but there's nothing there that gets me all hot and bothered. Not the Focus nor any car in this segement. You want excitment I suggest something with 2 doors, rear wheel drive and a lot more horsepower. I'm glad that compact cars have improved in their feature content and interior materials and the Focus is clear evidence of that. But frankly there is nothing wrong with the fit and finish and interior of the Corolla either and with the Corolla I have the added bonus of not having to drive a rattling, shudder machine that feels like a cheap piece of junk while Ford tells me its normal and fanboys on here claim its got to be the customers fault for just not being hip enough to understand how great it is. Whatever. You guys need to listen to Richard on that line of thought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 As I have said again, and something I constantly tell people when doing politics.. "if your explaining yourself, your losing"... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 As I have said again, and something I constantly tell people when doing politics.. "if your explaining yourself, your losing"... Thanks for that pearl of wisdom from the School of Epic Fail but I think if you really want to pass yourself off as some sort of sage of wisdom you might want to say it like this. "if you're explaining yourself, you're losing" Kind of changes the whole saying doesn't it? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss444 Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I am really enjoying it. And that's all that matters. That is the beauty of choice... Some people aren't content with people being happy. They are so closed minded that they cannot fathom a person liking something that they don't like. It's so much easier to not be a fanboy and just like automobiles. I like everything from a Smart Car to a Veyron. There are varying degrees of my 'like'...but hey...even a Smart car is better than walking! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpatrick90 Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 This But its all good Boss444. I'm not paying attention to his little rants anyway. The Corolla is a good car and regardless of what FordBuyer or any other detractors about the car here want to believe I am really enjoying it. It has a very smooth powertrian. Far smoother than the Focus was to be sure. I'm getting better mpg in the Corolla on my daily commute than I was in the Focus. (So much for the DCT improving mpg) It has a nice ride, handles well, and the cabin is quiet even at highway speed. But I've made all of these points already. This notion that I bought a compact car for it's excitement value is actually laughable to me. Who does that? It's a compact car. It's primary purpose is to be reliable, fuel efficient and deliver a good ride. The only car I can think of in this segment that has any real "excitment" value is the Subaru WRX, possibly the Lancer EVO, maybe the the Focus ST when it comes out but I think we all know I'm not going to buy one of those. lol You want to be mister excitment in your car? The Focus isn't it. It's just a commuter car with some nice features. Yes it has a decent body design but there's nothing there that gets me all hot and bothered. Not the Focus nor any car in this segement. You want excitment I suggest something with 2 doors, rear wheel drive and a lot more horsepower. I'm glad that compact cars have improved in their feature content and interior materials and the Focus is clear evidence of that. But frankly there is nothing wrong with the fit and finish and interior of the Corolla either and with the Corolla I have the added bonus of not having to drive a rattling, shudder machine that feels like a cheap piece of junk while Ford tells me its normal and fanboys on here claim its got to be the customers fault for just not being hip enough to understand how great it is. Whatever. You guys need to listen to Richard on that line of thought. The Corolla is akin to a kitchen appliance, sure it does its task of being an item of going from point a to point b, but it lacks personality that other cars in this class manage to have while still fulfilling the basic task of being transportation that you desire. I fully understand while you decided to get rid of your Focus, given your resistance to use another service department or talk to a regional manager, your only remaining option was to get rid of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 The Corolla is akin to a kitchen appliance, sure it does its task of being an item of going from point a to point b, but it lacks personality that other cars in this class manage to have while still fulfilling the basic task of being transportation that you desire. I fully understand while you decided to get rid of your Focus, given your resistance to use another service department or talk to a regional manager, your only remaining option was to get rid of it. You haven't read what I've posted at all. I did have the Regional Engineer come out and test drive the car. He proclaimed that everything it was doing was "normal" and instructed the dealership to make no further attempts to remedy the problem. The Corolla is no more a "kitchen appliance" than the Focus is. Your opinion about what does and does not constitute "personality" in a car is strictly your opinion and in the greater scheme of things that means less than nothing to me. The Corolla is a better car, of that there is no doubt in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpatrick90 Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 You haven't read what I've posted at all. I did have the Regional Engineer come out and test drive the car. He proclaimed that everything it was doing was "normal" and instructed the dealership to make no further attempts to remedy the problem. The Corolla is no more a "kitchen appliance" than the Focus is. Your opinion about what does and does not constitute "personality" in a car is strictly your opinion and in the greater scheme of things that means less than nothing to me. The Corolla is a better car, of that there is no doubt in my mind. I am sorry I couldn't keep track of all your endless ramblings. I still maintain that the way you have handled this situation is questionable at best. I mean you got absolutely hosed on your trade in for the Corolla, that Toyota Dealership should be ashamed of itself. If you look online at 2012 Focii with 8000-12000 miles one them they are still going for well over $20000 in most cases. I am not saying that Ford didn't mess up, they certainly did but I would have handled this situation in a much more sensible manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Everything in the compact class is a bit appliance like once you get past the fancy wheels, styling, electronic gizmo's ect..... Its basic transportation and none of the compacts inspire me. Its all about bang for the buck and reliability. The Corolla would not be my first choice but if the price was right I would consider one. I would think by now the bugs are worked out. I noticed the new Dart was using the DCT also so it will be interesting to see if they can get it right. I put the Ford koolaid jug down quite a while ago. Hopefully, they will try to improve instead of putting out videos about how something strange is normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 You'll never lose money by selling the American public short, but you'll never make money telling them that Good thing that's not my business... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Good thing that's not my business... "Oh yeah, much better to work with soulless computers and unambiguous programming languages." he said facetiously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 You haven't read what I've posted at all. I did have the Regional Engineer come out and test drive the car. He proclaimed that everything it was doing was "normal" and instructed the dealership to make no further attempts to remedy the problem. I do wish you could have recorded it or something, to get a more direct opinion of what you experienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 He O-W-N-E-D a new Focus and had such a bad experience with it, he bought something else. It doesn't matter what the review said from the rags (<-- BON term, not mine). I'm no fan of the Corolla, but to continue to rail on him because his Ford was riddled with problems seems a tad ignorant. If he didn't have such a bad experience with the Focus, he wouldn't be in a Corolla. And you were not even on this board when Blackhorse was bragging up his uber Wrangler. He was going to trick it out and show everyone here what a real machine was. Suddenly it became a POS. Now we have the same thing with the Focus. Look! It's the boy who keeps crying wolf! Get ready for the "My Corolla sucks" post in 5,4,3,2.... Hey BlackWhore, remember when you disappeared after your whole Wrangler chest thumping BS? Feel free to take another vacation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) And you were not even on this board when Blackhorse was bragging up his uber Wrangler. He was going to trick it out and show everyone here what a real machine was. Suddenly it became a POS. Now we have the same thing with the Focus. Look! It's the boy who keeps crying wolf! Get ready for the "My Corolla sucks" post in 5,4,3,2.... Hey BlackWhore, remember when you disappeared after your whole Wrangler chest thumping BS? Feel free to take another vacation. Oh yes, I should have kept the Wrangler that was burning 3 quarts of oil between oil changes. Whatever. It's not my fault if domestic car companies can't seem to make a vehicle that is worth a crap. My only problem was that I kept giving them chances. But rest assured that's over now. Edited December 14, 2011 by BlackHorse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 Oh yes, I should have kept the Wrangler that was burning 3 quarts of oil between oil changes. Whatever. It's not my fault if domestic car companies can't seem to make a vehicle that is worth a crap. My only problem was that I kept giving them chances. But rest assured that's over now. Sounds like you got impeccable luck in picking out crappy cars.... My 02 SVT Focus was a giant POS, but my 98 Mustang GT and my 2006 Mustang GT had/have been outstanding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Good thing that's not my business... "Oh yeah, much better to work with soulless computers and unambiguous programming languages." he said facetiously. If you guys start going back and forth again about GUIs in Linux environments and the benefits of Perl over COBOL, I'm writing somebody a strongly worded letter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 You haven't read what I've posted at all. I did have the Regional Engineer come out and test drive the car. He proclaimed that everything it was doing was "normal" and instructed the dealership to make no further attempts to remedy the problem. The Corolla is no more a "kitchen appliance" than the Focus is. Your opinion about what does and does not constitute "personality" in a car is strictly your opinion and in the greater scheme of things that means less than nothing to me. The Corolla is a better car, of that there is no doubt in my mind. In you mind only just as that "rattle" in your Focus trans seemed to be in your mind only. No one elses as Toyota seems to care less about keeping the Corolla competitive and Focus wins comparo tests and makes Top 10 lists. You lost your credibility with that rattle BS. Rattle implies something loose, and Ford customer rep would have gone to bat for you if you could prove existence of rattle. Trans don't rattle anyway. You need to do better job of articulating your problems to service personnel. They can't fix phantom rattles that exist in your mind only. As for your $13,000 2012 Focus hatch, someone will be buying it for about $19,000-20,000 and enjoying the hell out of it. And someone will be enjoying a $6,000 profit and a modern hatch with road presence, not a boring looking, dated sedan with the road presence of a generic taxi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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