theoldwizard Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 In School Bus Fleet mag, there's a Bluebird Vision bus ad with the Ford oval and Roush Cleantech logos touting the propane technology. First Student Bus Co. in Portland OR took delivery of 86 of these Bluebird propane-powered Visions. I'm just wondering that if Bluebird has the sole rights to the Ford/Roush propane engines in their Vision bus chassis, will we see a Ford cowl/chassis ever again? Thomas (Daimler) uses Freightliner (Daimler) conventional cowl/chassis and International uses their own cowl/chassis for their bus bodies. Ford's attitude seems to be, we will provide the basis, (chassis and engine capable of running gaseous fuel) and someone else wil handle it from there. Personally, I don't know why Bluebird went with the Roush popane conversion. One person in the know at Roush told me, "We only sell those to propane delivery companies." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) Westport has a diesel pilot injection CNG engine under development. Our new Freightliners at work use the Cummins/Westport ISL-G which does have spark plugs: Thanks for straightening me out ! I thought the diesel pilot injection was in production and I did not even know about the ISL-G system. Personally, I think diesel pilot injection is a very expensive set of spark plugs and makes it more complicated to control ignition timing. And, judging by the size of the diesel fuel tank on trucks so equipped and the fact that the injectors are sized for starting the engine and not much else, I think the 'limp-home' claims are somewhat dubious. I think the logic behind pilot injection is 1) more power per cubic inch, 2) fewer changes to the base fuel system. I concur with your comments on "limp home". You certainly won't be hauling anything and even empty, top speed would be below highway speed. Edited September 10, 2012 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 Thanks for straightening me out ! I tought the diesel pilot injection was in production and I did not even know about the ISL-G system. I think the logic behind pilot injection is 1) more power per cubic inch, 2) fewer changes to the base fuel system. I concur with your comments on "limp home". You certainly won't be hauling anything and even empty, top speed would be below highway speed. You could be right about more power per cubic inch. I was also thinking maybe pilot injection would allow a leaner CNG mix. Guess we will have to wait and see if anything comes of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Ya know, I found an interesting engine in the Ford Industrial line. 4.0L I6 with four valves per cylinder and CNG capable... http://test.ai-engines.com/dd-files/GSG640_Spec.pdf Wondering if and/or how this motor can be optimized for medium duty use.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Ya know, I found an interesting engine in the Ford Industrial line. 4.0L I6 with four valves per cylinder and CNG capable... http://test.ai-engin...GSG640_Spec.pdf Wondering if and/or how this motor can be optimized for medium duty use.... Maybe for something the size of the Transit of an Isuzu NPR. For a class 6 or 7 medium? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Ya know, I found an interesting engine in the Ford Industrial line. 4.0L I6 with four valves per cylinder and CNG capable... I thought the Ford Industrial line was defunct... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I thought the Ford Industrial line was defunct... From what I read, not in the slightest..... https://www.fordpowerproducts.com/publicpower/home.do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 From what I read, not in the slightest..... https://www.fordpowe...icpower/home.do I've checked this out before- a shell of what Ford Industrial Engines was in the old days. I get the feeling this is something that was set up to placate some dealers when they pulled the plug. IMO. if ever there was a Hollywood movie set with nothing behind the door, this is it. Hope I'm wrong. By the way-if you go to the NJ dealers website-they appear to be the key player and the only engine they mention is the V-10. As for the 4 liter 4V DOHC six kind of strange that it would pop out of the woodwork and no one has a clue? Or is this the 4.0 that we read about in Australia??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 Ford is selling the 4.6L and 6.8L to Generac, but that is currently the only application for Ford industrail engines that I am aware of. That 4.0L looks like the Australian 'Barra' in-line 6. Very strange Ford is 'marketing' that as an industrial engine. If Ford does pull out of Australia, I would imagine that would put a quick end to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 August sales, 500, 19% over 8/11. YTD 7% over YTD 11. Lousy numbers in the grand scheme of things but at least in the right direction. On another note, i was looking at a 2011 650/750 brochure that wasn't bad- at least it covered features other than "cupholders". But, under a description for one of the exhaust options that described an under cab muffler with a verticle pipe, it said---"just like the big rigs". Cute huh? says that truck people are disconnected from this effort-just like when they were printing brochures with a 750 dump and the tailgate release was on the curb side! Anybody look at this stuff? Anyone pay attention to detail? This brochure by the way is 1619229-08915-11F67CAT-just in case someone from Commercial truck reads these posts. Just trying to be helpful boys snd girls. Oh, had another brochure for a "750 Tractor". No GCW rating given. ??????????? Brochure vertually the same as "chassis cab" brochure-ther than word "tractor". Remember when Ford was a big dog in P & D business. The 750 has the specs to cover this market-perhaps not to the degree that F'liner or Paccar or Navistar can but it could sell- I've never seen one pulling a 27' pup! Agaion- no effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 says that truck people are disconnected from this effort-just like when they were printing brochures with a 750 dump and the tailgate release was on the curb side! I will profess a profound ignorance in this area--what's the significance of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I will profess a profound ignorance in this area--what's the significance of that? Well the tailgate release lever is on the Driver's side. I'm sure this "reverse image" somehow occurred in the ad layout process but someone -other than a customer -should be catching this stuff. Now some would say- "picky- picky". Again I say its attention to detail that counts-if the steering wheel was in a reversed image, would that matter?-sure-but probably none of these marketers have the sense to recognize what they are looking at. Many years ago I took a lot of heat for buying big Fords. Not a problem-I was convinced they were the most bang for the buck. But in the big truck world you always had to defend your position. the Louisville was a good truck-when specced -properly- and Ford had some truck people in the old days. Today, I scratch my head. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Well the tailgate release lever is on the Driver's side. I'm sure this "reverse image" somehow occurred in the ad layout process but someone -other than a customer -should be catching this stuff. Now some would say- "picky- picky". Again I say its attention to detail that counts-if the steering wheel was in a reversed image, would that matter?-sure-but probably none of these marketers have the sense to recognize what they are looking at. Ahh, that makes sense. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 August sales, 500, 19% over 8/11. YTD 7% over YTD 11. Lousy numbers in the grand scheme of things but at least in the right direction. On another note, i was looking at a 2011 650/750 brochure that wasn't bad- at least it covered features other than "cupholders". But, under a description for one of the exhaust options that described an under cab muffler with a verticle pipe, it said---"just like the big rigs". Cute huh? says that truck people are disconnected from this effort-just like when they were printing brochures with a 750 dump and the tailgate release was on the curb side! Anybody look at this stuff? Anyone pay attention to detail? This brochure by the way is 1619229-08915-11F67CAT-just in case someone from Commercial truck reads these posts. Just trying to be helpful boys snd girls. Oh, had another brochure for a "750 Tractor". No GCW rating given. ??????????? Brochure vertually the same as "chassis cab" brochure-ther than word "tractor". Remember when Ford was a big dog in P & D business. The 750 has the specs to cover this market-perhaps not to the degree that F'liner or Paccar or Navistar can but it could sell- I've never seen one pulling a 27' pup! Agaion- no effort. I wouldn't be too concerned over Ford's efforts (or lack thereof) in class 6 and 7 at the moment. The current models are definately 'lame duck'. We will have to wait and see what Ford does when those models are back 'in house'. In other news, Dodge (or is it Ram now?) is really pulling ahead of Ford in class 3 through 7 by almost 11,000 units for the year so far. And remember Dodge isn't even active in class 6 and 7. At least not yet, anyway. Over the next 2 years, class 4 and 5 could get a lot more crowded. I hear a certain someone will be back in it, and a new kid will show up too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I wouldn't be too concerned over Ford's efforts (or lack thereof) in class 6 and 7 at the moment. The current models are definately 'lame duck'. We will have to wait and see what Ford does when those models are back 'in house'. In other news, Dodge (or is it Ram now?) is really pulling ahead of Ford in class 3 through 7 by almost 11,000 units for the year so far. And remember Dodge isn't even active in class 6 and 7. At least not yet, anyway. Over the next 2 years, class 4 and 5 could get a lot more crowded. I hear a certain someone will be back in it, and a new kid will show up too. 10-4 on the Rams- a lot of ramp trucks in this area plus a lot of heavy fleet mechanic trucks. The Cummins has a comfortr level that I don't think the Duramax or the Pstroke have. Pl;us I still say the manual trans option sets them apart from Ford and GM. And speaking of GM I assume that is the "certin someone" yopu refer to-makes a lot of sense-assuming they just beef up the 3500 to push it into clas 4 and 5 for not a lot of cost- and I would guess the "new kid" you refe to, if Navistar can take a class 6/7 and morph it into a 4/5, no reason why f'liner can't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Is it so hard for Ford to get into vocational class 8? I mean come on. Beef up the specs on the Medium Super Duties: Throw 2 long rails down, connect them with cross members, add some components from Dana, Spicer, Meritor, Bendix etc. and voila! You have a Class 8 truck! Give me a break! If for no other reason, do it to give International and Daimler nightmares! Let 'em sweat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Is it so hard for Ford to get into vocational class 8? I mean come on. Beef up the specs on the Medium Super Duties: Throw 2 long rails down, connect them with cross members, add some components from Dana, Spicer, Meritor, Bendix etc. and voila! You have a Class 8 truck! Give me a break! If for no other reason, do it to give International and Daimler nightmares! Let 'em sweat! Joe, Keep in mind the 750 technically meets clss 8 specs with the 37,000 GVW package. And the existing frame options when speced with 120,000 psi steel more that meet most class 8 single axle requirements. What they don't have is an engine and the required cooling- to say nothing of a hood/sheetmetal. And more importantly- I see no marketing willingness to do anything in class 6 and 7-never mind 8. While the existing trucks might not be the most competitive, they could certainly do more than they have. As 7M says-perhaps they are marking time until Avon Lake comes on line and are not willing to invest any energy or money in the existing trucks when Navistar would be the primary beneficiary as a result of their larger stake in Bluediamond. Let's hope that is the case and that if they are going to be serious, they haven't lost ALL of their former loyal customer base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 Medium duty news- It is reported that UD will exit the U.S. market. Not much of a surprise, considering their sales over the last few years. That makes the PACCAR twins the only class 6 and 7 cabovers in the U.S. market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Medium duty news- It is reported that UD will exit the U.S. market. Not much of a surprise, considering their sales over the last few years. That makes the PACCAR twins the only class 6 and 7 cabovers in the U.S. market. And I can't think of the last time I saw one of those-the "twins" that is. As for the UD's, I know their numbers are lousy but there were quite a few in my area- ramp trucks and hook lifts handling small rool off "cans" in the trash business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Blue Bird and Roush logos (along with Ford's of course) will appear on a yellow Mustang in NASCAR. I forgot the team/driver. Also, in Fire Apparatus magazine Rosenbauer's "truck of the month" ad with pull-out is what appears to be a blue F550 crew cab rescue truck. It's hard to see the designation in the picture. Also, in their prints ads, they are also marketing a custom cab whose grille looks remarkably similar to Ford's horizontal bar treatments. I'm going to try and find a pic and post it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Here it is: Rosenbauer Commander Chassis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Here it is: Rosenbauer Commander Chassis Thx Joe- Looks like they are a big player in the small department market-lot of custom stuff that the E-Ones of the world don't want?? By the way- the Bluebird car is the No. 6 Roush Ford driven by Stenhouse-and it won yesterday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Wow, they won? I missed that.............thanks Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) What they don't have is an engine and the required cooling- to say nothing of a hood/sheetmetal. And more importantly- I see no marketing willingness to do anything in class 6 and 7-never mind 8. While the existing trucks might not be the most competitive, they could certainly do more than they have. As 7M says-perhaps they are marking time until Avon Lake comes on line and are not willing to invest any energy or money in the existing trucks when Navistar would be the primary beneficiary as a result of their larger stake in Bluediamond. I saw Ford starve out a LM dealer that borrowed money from Ford Credit to build a BMW/Toyota dealership. It cost them sales in the short term, but freed them from a business partner they did not trust (they also vetoed at least one franchise sale to this guy). Figure this is just the same process, writ on a larger scale. Edited September 18, 2012 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I saw Ford starve out a LM dealer that borrowed money from Ford Credit to build a BMW/Toyota dealership. It cost them sales in the short term, but freed them from a business partner they did not trust (they also vetoed at least one franchise sale to this guy). Figure this is just the same process, writ on a larger scale. Could be-and understandable-break your butt so your "partner" can make more than you! My concern is the longer it takes to get back on track, the more risk you have of losing your old customers-at least that seems logical to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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