BORG Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 The Expedition and Navigator are the last orphaned vehicles at Ford and carry Ford's oldest tech from the engines to the cabin. There appears to be no activity on these vehicles, even the rumor of a EB 3.5 and facelift for 2013 have evaporated. Ford has been mum about these cars, while we know GM is working on new vehicles for 2014. Is it safe to assume Ford intends to exit this segment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Is it safe to assume Ford intends to exit this segment? I don't see how it's safe to assume that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I think they're being reworked along with the new F150 where there will be a lot more sharing than the current vehicles. It's the only way to make a business case for such low volume vehicles now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 The Expedition and Navigator are the last orphaned vehicles at Ford and carry Ford's oldest tech from the engines to the cabin. There appears to be no activity on these vehicles, even the rumor of a EB 3.5 and facelift for 2013 have evaporated. Ford has been mum about these cars, while we know GM is working on new vehicles for 2014. Is it safe to assume Ford intends to exit this segment? um, 1 word...no. I would expect drivetrain changes and massive weight loss....Fords been secretive about EVERYTHING lately.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) The Expedition and Navigator are the last orphaned vehicles at Ford and carry Ford's oldest tech from the engines to the cabin. There appears to be no activity on these vehicles, even the rumor of a EB 3.5 and facelift for 2013 have evaporated. Ford has been mum about these cars, while we know GM is working on new vehicles for 2014. Is it safe to assume Ford intends to exit this segment? They need Aviator with 3.7 V6 standard and Ecoboost V6 as an option. Make it on 117.9" wheelbase and share it with Ford as an Explorer EL? Expedition and F150 on the same platform, that's the hold up... Edited December 16, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I don't see how it's safe to assume that at all. Based on what they've been doing to other Ford products, I do see it going the way of the dodo. At least this has been the Ford trend over recent years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Based on what they've been doing to other Ford products, I do see it going the way of the dodo. At least this has been the Ford trend over recent years. Really? Which vehicle have they killed that shared a platform and most parts with a 500K+ per year volume vehicle like the F150? Ranger? Nope - stand alone platform. Windstar/Freestar? Nope - stand alone platform. Crown Vic/Grand Marquis? Nope - stand alone platform. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I just hope they don't turn it into an oversized Focus. I don't think an Explorer-EL is worth the investment. I still think a T6 based Expedition (especially if it were built alongside a slightly widened T6 based F100) could make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Expedition is like Flex, even though they sell in low numbers both are profitable due to high average transaction prices. Expedition starts at $37,600, it really adds value to F truck manufacturing, all they need to do is share engines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I still think a T6 based Expedition (especially if it were built alongside a slightly widened T6 based F100) could make sense. Would love to see that? Being based off the T6, maybe on a Rcab platform, they could make a Bronco version. Expedition starts at $37,600, it really adds value to F truck manufacturing, all they need to do is share engines... which gets us back to why this hasn't been done yet. If the F150 & Expy are that similar, why's it take so long? Is it simply availability of the new motors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) Would love to see that? Being based off the T6, maybe on a Rcab platform, they could make a Bronco version. which gets us back to why this hasn't been done yet. If the F150 & Expy are that similar, why's it take so long? Is it simply availability of the new motors? or holding off because of the apparent MASSIVE changes come 2013 model?......hmmmm Edited December 16, 2011 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) The Expy/Navy do not share the F-150 platform which has continued to evolve, they don't even share engines or interior components with any other Ford. Unlike every other Ford not cancelled (even the E-Series), the Expy and Navy have not fallen into Ford's maintenance cycle. The Expy/Navy right now are Ford time capsules with components (inside and out) that are two generations old. And if Ford was waiting on the next-gen F-150, it's still 3 years away, i mean the F-150 has had several MCEs since the Expy was last updated with another one for 2013 (which we have seen running around in the streets). This is a pattern similar to other phased out Fords and I can't help but think this is a good indication that Ford has other plans for this segment. Edited December 16, 2011 by BORG 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 or holding off because of the apparent MASSIVE changes come 2013 model?......hmmmm The 2013 F-150 is a small MCE, nothing major there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 The 2013 F-150 is a small MCE, nothing major there. maybe its a bit later, but I have been told to hold onto my socks.....BIG changes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) Would love to see that? Being based off the T6, maybe on a Rcab platform, they could make a Bronco version. which gets us back to why this hasn't been done yet. If the F150 & Expy are that similar, why's it take so long? Is it simply availability of the new motors? To say that Ford was stunned by the number of Ecoboost engines sold and even 5.0 V8s would be an understatement. A few years ago Ford was saying f Truck sales would never be as great as they once were and that die back was permanent. Well, here we are still in a patchy economy and F truck is up around 50,000 a month. I think the uptick in F150 was a peasant surprise that Ford is struggling to fill and that changes to Expedition might have been delayed due to the above. Yes, monthly allocations of engines could be that tight.... Edited December 16, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) The Expy/Navy do not share the F-150 platform which has continued to evolve, they don't even share engines or interior components with any other Ford. Internally, that's something Ford now wants to redress by making F150 and Expedition common to each other, maybe this is what;'s soaking up time, should we do anything before a major change or just let the MCE slide? Edited December 16, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 To say that Ford was stunned by the number of Ecoboost engines sold and even 5.0 V8s would be an understatement. A few years ago Ford was saying f Truck sales would never be as great as they once were and that die back was permanent. Well, here we are still in a patchy economy and F truck is up around 50,000 a month. I think the uptick in F150 was a peasant surprise that Ford is struggling to fill and that changes to Expedition might have been delayed due to the above. I was sceptical at first, but if i was in the market for a pickup, the Eco-boost would be my first choice, but the 5.0 is an absolute sweetheart. I am hearing from customers some pretty good mileage claims with the eco as well, I recently delivered one per freeway the other day and taking it relatively easy ( 70 mph ) constant, was seeing between 23 and 19 mpgs.....not bad at all.....4x4 and all ( King ranch ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) I was sceptical at first, but if i was in the market for a pickup, the Eco-boost would be my first choice, but the 5.0 is an absolute sweetheart. I am hearing from customers some pretty good mileage claims with the eco as well, I recently delivered one per freeway the other day and taking it relatively easy ( 70 mph ) constant, was seeing between 23 and 19 mpgs.....not bad at all.....4x4 and all ( King ranch ) They are certainly two different engines for two different customer bases, if Ford had run with just 5.0 and 6.2 then maybe they would have inventory levels over 200,000 like GM has at the moment.... no Ford couldn't be as bad as GM. You hear them chirping over on GMI...the turbos are gonna fail, this is wrong that is wrong chevy, chevy, chevy..... Hello, this the the company with piles of unsold trucks and a 3.0 V6 Turbo that's now an unsellable stinking mess.. Edited December 16, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Internally, that's something Ford now wants to redress by making F150 and Expedition common to each other, maybe this is what;'s soaking up time, should we do anything before a major change or just let the MCE slide? That was my point. Why put any money into it now if it's going to be radically different with the next F150? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) That was my point. Why put any money into it now if it's going to be radically different with the next F150? So do we keep F150 and Expedition the same size or make them slightly smaller? Do we allow for T6 f100 or make a slightly smaller F150 to cover that segment? I'm sure Ford's competitors would love to know, interesting times ahead, history tells me that they will probably stick with today's size and push up ATPs. Edited December 16, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) Internally, that's something Ford now wants to redress by making F150 and Expedition common to each other, maybe this is what;'s soaking up time, should we do anything before a major change or just let the MCE slide? But that still represents a nontrivial investment on a segment that is not robust or stable. Right now I have a hard time picturing Ford developing another F-150 based SUV. Edited December 17, 2011 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) But that still represents a nontrivial investment on a segment that is not robust or stable. Right now I have a hard time picturing Ford developing another F-150 based SUV. and yet Ford is doing a T6 SUV........... Make a new EXPY a side project off the new F150 and the costs benefits are there, I'm not saying they will change size but common parts and weight reductions will most certainly be on the table. The +$36K price point makes all the difference... Rather than a complete tear up, I'd see the whole exercise as evolutionary refinement with cost and weight savings thrown in. Edited December 17, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 and yet Ford is doing a T6 SUV........... Make a new EXPY a side project off the new F150 and the costs benefits are there, I'm not saying they will change size but common parts and weight reductions will most certainly be on the table. The +$36K price point makes all the difference... Rather than a complete tear up, I'd see the whole exercise as evolutionary refinement with cost and weight savings thrown in. But that's a global product in markets that don't already have an Explorer, Flex and Edge in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) What has happened to the Expedition and Navigator is really inexcusable. So the Flex and MKT were worth doing an MCE, but not the Expedition and Navigator? Seriously. No wonder they aren't selling very well anymore with the old gas guzzling 5.4 while the F-Series gets the latest engines. You can't tell me that it would have been very hard to give them a new grille, some new features and install the 5.0 as standard and the EB 3.5 as an option. The extra units sold because of those changes would have easily made it worth the effort. People keep saying that the reason Ford hasn't installed the new engine yet or gave the vehicles a facelift is because there is an all new Expedition and Navigator coming. Really? Where is it? The engineering is long paid for and for what they are there isn't anything wrong with the current chassis, however they need some updates and should be sharing power trains with the F-Series. The 2012's are rolling down the line and still using the old 5.4. Who wants to pay Navigator prices... or even Expedition prices for something like that. If this was an economy vehicle I would give it a pass, however it is not and selling second rate engines for the prices they want on these vehicles is absurd. It's amazing they sell any at all. What is even more amazing is that the Navigator still can outsell the MKT with such little done. What does that say about the MKT? As far as Lincoln is concerned they could build an Explorer based Aviator, give the Navigator a good update and forget the whale ever existed. They would be further ahead. It is just my opinion, but all the time and effort wasted on the MKT could have been better used for a Navigator update and bringing a new Aviator to market. But in typical Ford fashion it would not surprise me if they didn't exit this market and give what's left all to GM. Edited December 17, 2011 by 2005Explorer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) What has happened to the Expedition and Navigator is really inexcusable. So the Flex and MKT were worth doing an MCE, but not the Expedition and Navigator? Seriously. No wonder they aren't selling very well anymore with the old gas guzzling 5.4 while the F-Series gets the latest engines. You can't tell me that it would have been very hard to give them a new grille, some new features and install the 5.0 as standard and the EB 3.5 as an option. The extra units sold because of those changes would have easily made it worth the effort. People keep saying that the reason Ford hasn't installed the new engine yet or gave the vehicles a facelift is because there is an all new Expedition and Navigator coming. Really? Where is it? The engineering is long paid for and for what they are there isn't anything wrong with the current chassis, however they need some updates and should be sharing power trains with the F-Series. The 2012's are rolling down the line and still using the old 5.4. Who wants to pay Navigator prices... or even Expedition prices for something like that. If this was an economy vehicle I would give it a pass, however it is not and selling second rate engines for the prices they want on these vehicles is absurd. It's amazing they sell any at all. What is even more amazing is that the Navigator still can outsell the MKT with such little done. What does that say about the MKT? As far as Lincoln is concerned they could build an Explorer based Aviator, give the Navigator a good update and forget the whale ever existed. They would be further ahead. It is just my opinion, but all the time and effort wasted on the MKT could have been better used for a Navigator update and bringing a new Aviator to market. But in typical Ford fashion it would not surprise me if they didn't exit this market and give what's left all to GM. The lack of any MCEs is probably the first indication that Ford predicts no return on investment or has already made a decision, that's always the first warning sign that discontinuation is imminent. But you must admit that volume of vehicles sold is not the full story and never an indication that one vehicle is more important than another. Edited December 17, 2011 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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