SVTCobra Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1203_2012_chevrolet_camaro_zl1_vs_2012_ford_mustang_boss_302_laguna_seca/ The Camaro is pretty impressive, packing a lot of high end features and insane performance. Problem is, it should not be compared to the Boss 302. That's like comparing the Boss 302 to a Camaro SS. Obviously the Camaro is the better car, this sums it up: Although the Boss 302 is probably the best Mustang ever built, it just feels and performs like it's a generation behind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Geez Motor Trend sucks. Why not a Corvette vs. Super Duty comparison? "Even though the Super Duty was able to tow the Corvette to 60MPH in about 14 seconds, we were left underwhelmed by its performance on the Figure 8 test which we invented and are oh so proud of, and its slalom performance left much to be desired." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 And here's where I stopped: Think of the Camaro as being a good friend and the Mustang a girlfriend. Yep. Motor Trend sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang let back Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 what this means to me is with all of that talk about the things the zl1 was going to have on it,yes it beat the BOSS 302 but did not kill it.12.1@117 for the zl1 and 12.4 for the BOSS.Evan Smith took a 2010 GT500 stock and got 11.9@120.the BOSS was not too far behind on the track.it seems to me if the BOSS had just 500hp it would have beat the zl1.going by if FORD has the same set up as the BOSS for the 2013 GT500,or better,the zl1 will get DESTROYED.Posted Image :hysterical2: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 No surprise here.....to my mind at least the Camaro ZL1 is pretty much a Corvette ZR1 in disguise. MT set up the Mustang to go against a ringer. Even more than the hp advantage, the much meatier front tires on the ZL1 gave it a huge advantage on a road circuit . This comparo was a waste of time and money and worse a set up for the poor Mustang with 140 less hp and skinnier front tires. Might as well put up an F1 race car up against a Formula Atlantic one and call it an even match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 It's all because Chevy wanted a comparison they could win. They aren't willing to put their top Camaro against the GT500 because it would lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVTCobra Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'd love to see the 2012 ZL1 vs 2011/2012 GT500. When the 2013 GT500 is available later this year, Test all 3 head-to-head. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atvman Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The Chebbie boys are already declaring victory over the GT500. I can't wait to see that serving of crow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'd love to see the 2012 ZL1 vs 2011/2012 GT500. When the 2013 GT500 is available later this year, Test all 3 head-to-head. I'm thinking a '12 GT500 vs the ZL1 on a road coarse would be pretty close with a slight edge going to the Camaro. Let's face it, the 2011/12 GT500's suspension is a compromise between street and track. Who here doesn't believe that GM had a current GT500 to compare the ZL1 to? The 2013 GT500 with its electronically adjustable dampers should allow it to keep pace in the corners and the extra 70 hp and 300-400 lb weight advantage over the Chebby should allow it to run overall faster lap times. If the quarter mile times that MT posted for the ZL1 are accurate I think it is going to get its butt handed to it by a 2013 GT500. The fact that the Shelby's gearing will allow it to finish the quarter mile in 3rd gear should also be an advantage. I have read estimates that the GT500 should be able to hit 62 mph in 1st gear at the 7000 rpm redline in well under 4 sec. Launch control and the Torsen differential alone should make it quicker than the 11/12 even without the extra 100 hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat501 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 "Hero" lap times are interesting and serve their purpose to stir discussion ( a good thing IMO) but in actuality amount to qualifying laps in real world terms which merely determines your starting grid position. Real road races are multi lap affairs, and as always with s/c cars there is the spectre of "heat soak". It would be interesting to see which car would be the winner in a 50 lap race and I wouldn't expect the 2 second per lap advantage of the Camaro to be repeatable after several laps. Unfortunately, brakes seem to be a weak point (in a track environment) for all recent Mustangs as the rear brakes are undermanned (unless that is a necessary evil to to the f/ront/rear bias) Not sure why MT didn't bring the fastest road course Mustang, the GT500 (per the Insideline head-to-head comparo of all 2011 Mustang models.) The ZL1 would have still won the road course hero lap (understandable since it was benchmarked for 2 years against a GT500) but the drag race would have been very close. The 2013 GT500 should easily beat the ZL1 in a drag race with the only question being the winner of the road course hero lap. I'd venture a guess that if the 13 GT500 nips the ZL1 on the road course, the MT guys will still say they prefer the ZL1 because its "effortless" to drive it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosetang Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Someone on another site pointed out that Randy Probst was posting times better than those of the ZL last time he took a 302 LS around that track. But this time, with Chebby's new wunder car, he was well behind the ZL1. Integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Someone on another site pointed out that Randy Probst was posting times better than those of the ZL last time he took a 302 LS around that track. But this time, with Chebby's new wunder car, he was well behind the ZL1. Integrity. That comparo was bought and paid for by Chevy. It's not an article. It's an advertisement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bifs66 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 One aspect of this test/discussion left unstated is that the BOSS 302 is a true descendant of the Trans-Am cars of the 60s/70s. Those cars were limited to 302 cu in N/A engines making the Boss an accurate tribute to those golden days of competition. The Camaro has more displacement (6.2 vs. 5.0) and is supercharged; which renders it something other than a modern version of a Trans-Am racer. Perhaps that's why Chevy didn't call it a Z-28. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 One aspect of this test/discussion left unstated is that the BOSS 302 is a true descendant of the Trans-Am cars of the 60s/70s. Those cars were limited to 302 cu in N/A engines making the Boss an accurate tribute to those golden days of competition. The Camaro has more displacement (6.2 vs. 5.0) and is supercharged; which renders it something other than a modern version of a Trans-Am racer. Perhaps that's why Chevy didn't call it a Z-28. Pretty sure even today there are displacement and forced induction restrictions in the Continental Tire Grand-Am series that the Boss 302 was specifically designed to compete in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 One aspect of this test/discussion left unstated is that the BOSS 302 is a true descendant of the Trans-Am cars of the 60s/70s. Those cars were limited to 302 cu in N/A engines making the Boss an accurate tribute to those golden days of competition. The Camaro has more displacement (6.2 vs. 5.0) and is supercharged; which renders it something other than a modern version of a Trans-Am racer. Perhaps that's why Chevy didn't call it a Z-28. 1) V6 Mustang beats V6 Camaro 2) V8 Mustang GT beats V8 Camaro SS 3) BOSS 302 Mustang.........doesn't have competition. The Camaro is too fat to make a worthy Z28. Notice the EPA figure? 19 MPG freeway! The Mustang Shelby GT500 is a fair comparison to the ZL1, both having larger SC V8s and $55K price tags. But the GT500 gets 23 MPG and no gas guzzler tax. Not that people buy them for fuel efficiency, but in this day and age a gas guzzler tax is unacceptable. I think the ZL1 would beat the current GT500........... 4) but not the upcoming '13 version. So Mustang wins now and next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Meh. I know the Camaro is outselling, but Mustang has its following, and 2015 brings a whole new one. And there's no way, IMHO, that the next Mustang won't be as quick or quicker than any Camaro . . . AUTOBLOG reviews the 2012 V-6 Mustang. Very positive, touting its value for price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Am I missing something here? .2s faster to 60 2s faster around the course .3s faster in the quarter Equal grip... $7000 more MSRP "Better technology" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Am I missing something here? .2s faster to 60 2s faster around the course .3s faster in the quarter Equal grip... $7000 more MSRP "Better technology" And all it took was 136 more HP to beat a naturally-aspirated, less powerful car. (I don't get into the displacement game) Barely, I might add. Edited January 19, 2012 by papilgee4evaeva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) I just looked up GT500, $49,600 plus on roads........how scared are they to avoid the real McCoy... Just goes to show how ( chickenshit ) GM friendly Motortrend really is...... Edited January 19, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang let back Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Am I missing something here? .2s faster to 60 2s faster around the course .3s faster in the quarter Equal grip... $7000 more MSRP "Better technology" you are so right about this.i told people the zl1 was hype.all of that high tech.in that car and the BOSS was right there.the new GT500 will DESTROY the zl1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atvman Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 And all it took was 136 more HP to beat a naturally-aspirated, less powerful car. (I don't get into the displacement game) Barely, I might add. I remember how much whining went on when the supercharged 2003 Cobra beat up on the LS1 Camaros. Fast forward to today and it takes a both 1.2L of displacement and a supercharger for the Cowmaro to beat an NA Mustang. I love serving crow to people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 you are so right about this.i told people the zl1 was hype.all of that high tech.in that car and the BOSS was right there.the new GT500 will DESTROY the zl1. Maybe something different, more humiliating, Ecoboost V6 with around 420 hp / 465 lb ft of torque should do the trick nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Maybe something different, more humiliating, Ecoboost V6 with around 420 hp / 465 lb ft of torque should do the trick nicely. I believe turbos are banned on most road circuits sanctioned by the major auto racing organizations. Supercharging and turbos are cheating. That is why to me the horsepower wars are rather childish. Dang, just buy a Navy surplus steam catapult and be done with it. Or maybe a surplus Air Force rocket sled and hemorhage your eyeballs. A normally aspirated Boss 302 with 440hp would be more than enough for me. I could care less if some Corvette masquerading as a Camaro ZL1 could beat me with huge V8 and super wide front tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'll let you have the last word because IMO, it sums what a lot of people are thinking... A normally aspirated Boss 302 with 440hp would be more than enough for me. I could care less if some Corvette masquerading as a Camaro ZL1 could beat me with huge V8 and super wide front tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopCat501 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 At least the Car & Driver review acknowledges that while the ZL1 is the best Camaro ever, the GT500 is it's true competition and the upcoming GT500 just might be faster. "That the ZL1 is the best Camaro ever is perhaps not a huge surprise. That it’s a damned fine all-around GT car is a little more shocking. But let’s face it: The big whoa here is the one the boys in Dearborn sprung, in the form of a Mustang with the world’s most powerful production V-8. Is it any fairer to judge the ZL1 on its 12-percent peak-horsepower deficit than to assume that the 2013 GT500 is a 12-percent-better car? Of course not. Still, the big fish eat the little ones. And war ain’t fair." http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-test-review Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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