meyeste Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Considering how well the 3.5L EB engine is being received in the F150, how about adding the technology to the 5.0L? I would suggest this engine could replace the 6.2L as the high-end engine in the F150 and the Expedition (if Ford ever sees fit to update the Expedition engine line up). Considering Mr. Mulally's proclamation that Ford is a technology company, it makes sense for your top models to have the top technology and the 6.2L while a great engine in it's own right, loses technological bragging rights to a Twin Turbo DI 5.0L. Now a DI 5.0L is fully expected with the 2015 model of the Mustang and given GM's plans to have DI on all next generation small block V-8's Ford has to be planning to release this DI on the 5.0L. And I have heard that the SVT team has a put together at least one EB 5.0L, so let's have it already. Edited February 8, 2012 by meyeste 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eel Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Considering how well the 3.5L EB engine is being received in the F150, how about adding the technology to the 5.0L? I would suggest this engine could replace the 6.2L as the high-end engine in the F150 and the Expedition (if Ford ever sees fit to update the Expedition engine line up). Considering Mr. Mulally's proclamation that Ford is a technology company, it makes sense for your top models to have the top technology and the 6.2L while a great engine in it's own right, loses technological bragging rights to a Twin Turbo DI 5.0L. Now a DI 5.0L is fully expected with the 2015 model of the Mustang and given GM's plans to have DI on all next generation small block V-8's Ford has to be planning to release this DI on the 5.0L. And I have heard that the SVT team has a put together at least one EB 5.0L, so let's have it already. I agree with you. An F-150 with the EB 5.0 would be a great option. Also, throw in true dual exhausts with the package. I think the Ram pickups look so great with the carved bumpers and duals. Ford should move this direction as it would help performance, efficiency and appearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPV GTHO Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I agree with you. An F-150 with the EB 5.0 would be a great option. Also, throw in true dual exhausts with the package. I think the Ram pickups look so great with the carved bumpers and duals. Ford should move this direction as it would help performance, efficiency and appearance. A 5L EB would be alot of engine, i'm sure Ford would want to make sure the same job cant be done by a next gen 3.x Ecoboost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Old news. The V8 Ecoboost was cancelled in favor of the 6.7 V8 diesel developed for the Super Duty trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPV GTHO Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Wasnt that Bobcat with the urea injection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 If the 2015 F150 is re-sized to eliminate some of the overlap of capabilities with the F250, I think a 5.0EB would be a perfect F250 engine. Something smaller and cheaper than the diesel, but more than enough to haul "most" 5 wheels and travel trailers out there. Leave the 3.5 EB and 6.2NA as is in the F150. Add the nano 2.7EB to complete the engine lineup. Of course leave the 3.7 and 5.0 NA as is too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSchicago Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 5.0 Ecoboost would be a great replacement for the current V10. It could have plenty of torque. Better MPG too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Wasnt that Bobcat with the urea injection? Bobcat was brilliant, it used PFI but used E85 direct Injection to control detonation. Sadly, the cost of two fuel systems and a block as strong as a diesel was way more expensive than doing an emission compliant diesel that Super Duty buyers wanted. NoX compliant diesels have Urea exhaust after treatment although some diesels under 2.0 liters can get away with trap and release NOX strategies (VW) it doesn't work with bigger engines. While Ecoboost 5.0 sounds great, the packaging and plumbing would be a nightmare, you could get 90% by intercooled Supercharged DI set up, a lot neater package... Edited February 16, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyeste Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 Bobcat was brilliant, it used PFI but used E85 direct Injection to control detonation. Sadly, the cost of two fuel systems and a block as strong as a diesel was way more expensive than doing an emission compliant diesel that Super Duty buyers wanted. NoX compliant diesels have Urea exhaust after treatment although some diesels under 2.0 liters can get away with trap and release NOX strategies (VW) it doesn't work with bigger engines. While Ecoboost 5.0 sounds great, the packaging and plumbing would be a nightmare, you could get 90% by intercooled Supercharged DI set up, a lot neater package... I have to ask wouldn't the EB 5.0 packaging pretty much just match the 3.5L EB? I saw a Crew Cab Raptor the other day and it was simply awesome, I am pretty sure the ground actually shook as it when past. I don't know if perhaps an after market exhaust was on that monster but I'll cease and desist calls for a replacement for the 6.2L. I live on the east coast but am trying to convince my wife we should move to Colorado - where I could see actually buying a Raptor, but out here I don't see a use for one unless I lived closer to the outer banks or the eastern shore. I am saddened with the higher gas prices because I know this likely means an end to the V-8 in just about everything but the high end sports cars and trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I have to ask wouldn't the EB 5.0 packaging pretty much just match the 3.5L EB? the 90-degree 5.0 V8 is both wider and longer than the 60-degree 3.5 V6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 lately I've been wondering about an all EB engine lineup for Lincoln's GRwdP vehicles: Continental, Constellation, Aviator, & Navigator 2.7EB, 3.5EB, 5.0EB maybe even ^ variously electric-assisted in front for eco-AWD-ish-ness upto 350hp, 450hp Min, approx 700hp.... ...Could Fomoco be holding back on a 5.0v8-EB for a Lincoln exclusive on forthcoming RWDs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traxiii Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 lately I've been wondering about an all EB engine lineup for Lincoln's GRwdP vehicles: Continental, Constellation, Aviator, & Navigator 2.7EB, 3.5EB, 5.0EB maybe even ^ variously electric-assisted in front for eco-AWD-ish-ness upto 350hp, 450hp Min, approx 700hp.... ...Could Fomoco be holding back on a 5.0v8-EB for a Lincoln exclusive on forthcoming RWDs? I'm thinking the 5.0L EB would be the powerplant for the new 2015 GT500 with the mileage restrictions and all. Might still squeeze out 650 HP with better mileage than this year's 5.8L SC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Rumor is that Ford won't go with a turbo on the "big Mustang". Maybe the 2.0EB will be added. But no 3.5EB or 5.0EB. They want to stick with super charger.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) Why would Ford want to introduce an engine that competes or takes away sales from the 6.7 diesel? If anything, I could see Ford offering an uprated 3.5 Ecoboost in Super Duty and really test the market. Edited March 20, 2012 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Why would Ford want to introduce an engine that competes or takes away sales from the 6.7 diesel? If anything, I could see Ford offering an uprated 3.5 Ecoboost in Super Duty and really test the market. Honestly, with the weight of the SD, I don't think the 3.5 EB would get much if any better fuel economy empty than the 6.2 due to the need for the 3.5 to be under higher boost all the time. Apparently, the 6.2 is pretty impressive in the SD in both fuel economy and power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Why would Ford want to introduce an engine that competes or takes away sales from the 6.7 diesel? If anything, I could see Ford offering an uprated 3.5 Ecoboost in Super Duty and really test the market. I don't think a 5.0EB would take away from the SD diesel market much. I think it would enhance the lineup. Just like everyone thought the 3.5EB in the f150 wouldn't work. "It's too close to the 6.2". And yet, the 3.5EB has done nothing but bump F150 sales upward. I think a 5.0EB would actually be almost too large. Something in the 4.5liter area would fill the gap better. But that would mean making a whole new engine. I don't think Ford would want to put the engineering effort and money into a single use engine like that. For now, I'm thinking the SD engines will stay where they are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) I don't think a 5.0EB would take away from the SD diesel market much. I think it would enhance the lineup. Just like everyone thought the 3.5EB in the f150 wouldn't work. "It's too close to the 6.2". And yet, the 3.5EB has done nothing but bump F150 sales upward. I think a 5.0EB would actually be almost too large. Something in the 4.5liter area would fill the gap better. But that would mean making a whole new engine. I don't think Ford would want to put the engineering effort and money into a single use engine like that. For now, I'm thinking the SD engines will stay where they are... If the numbers were right, I think a 5.0EB would take away from the diesel market. Taking the 3.5 numbers and extrapolating to 5.0 liters, that would be 520 HP and 600 ft-lbs for the 5.0. Turn the HP down a bit and keep the torque curve flat, and I would replace my diesel with that instead of with a 6.7 since the 5.0 should be $5-6k LESS than the diesel. Hell, had that been available last year when I bought my truck, that's what I would be driving now! Big question though...would the AL block handle that? I think it would have to go to iron block to support that and be viable in a SD. Edited March 20, 2012 by fordmantpw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versa-Tech Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) Rumor is that Ford won't go with a turbo on the "big Mustang". Maybe the 2.0EB will be added. But no 3.5EB or 5.0EB. They want to stick with super charger.. I have heard mixed reports on this matter as of late. While a conventional turbo system is on the backburner, that isn't to say that turbos wont play a role in the next GT500. I know that Honeywell has been hard at work as of late developing a hybrid super-turbo system that uses integrated armatures (generators) in the impeller housing to power a remote electric compressor. Effectively splitting the turbo, the system maintains the efficiency of a conventional turbo setup with relatively moderate packaging constraints. This is not only the most fuel efficient option, but also offers the most power potential. Edited March 20, 2012 by Versa-Tech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I have a work colleague who has a supercharged 5.0 Falcon, in standard form it was dynoed with 460 hp at the rear wheels. IMO, that's over 500 hp at the flywheel - a pretty good effort for a PFI and non-intercooled package with a lot more to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 If the numbers were right, I think a 5.0EB would take away from the diesel market. Taking the 3.5 numbers and extrapolating to 5.0 liters, that would be 520 HP and 600 ft-lbs for the 5.0. Turn the HP down a bit and keep the torque curve flat, and I would replace my diesel with that instead of with a 6.7 since the 5.0 should be $5-6k LESS than the diesel. Hell, had that been available last year when I bought my truck, that's what I would be driving now! Big question though...would the AL block handle that? I think it would have to go to iron block to support that and be viable in a SD. Ford Racing Parts already offers a crate engine that is based on the aluminum block Boss 302 with forged internals and a lower compression ratio that would be more compatible with forced induction. http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com/FORD_RACING_5_0L_ALUMINATOR_LOW_COMPRESSION_COYOTE_p/m-6007-a50sc.htm They also offer bolt-on supercharger kits for the 5.0L Coyote rated up to 624hp. http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com/2011_2012_Mustang_GT_624HP_Supercharger_Kit_p/m-6066-mgt624d.htm So I would say Ford already has an aluminum block 5.0L that will handle the kind of power you are referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Ford Racing Parts already offers a crate engine that is based on the aluminum block Boss 302 with forged internals and a lower compression ratio that would be more compatible with forced induction. http://www.fordracin...-6007-a50sc.htm They also offer bolt-on supercharger kits for the 5.0L Coyote rated up to 624hp. http://www.fordracin...066-mgt624d.htm So I would say Ford already has an aluminum block 5.0L that will handle the kind of power you are referring to. Handling the power in a sports car and handling the power in a truck rated to tow 20k lbs. is just a tad different... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meyeste Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) If the numbers were right, I think a 5.0EB would take away from the diesel market. Taking the 3.5 numbers and extrapolating to 5.0 liters, that would be 520 HP and 600 ft-lbs for the 5.0. Turn the HP down a bit and keep the torque curve flat, and I would replace my diesel with that instead of with a 6.7 since the 5.0 should be $5-6k LESS than the diesel. Hell, had that been available last year when I bought my truck, that's what I would be driving now! Big question though...would the AL block handle that? I think it would have to go to iron block to support that and be viable in a SD. I like the way you think, and I agree; a 5.0L EB possibly with an Iron block would serve as an alternate lower cost option to the big diesels. I've read at least one of the German car companies believes a turbo & supercharged gas engine is superior to a diesel in every way. I would think Ford would want to be on the forefront of that market, what would that be called a SEB? Edited March 22, 2012 by meyeste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I like the way you think Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Thanks! I kill me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FPV GTHO Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Ive heard rumours any Ecoboost Coyote would be 4.7L with thinner bores due to a thicker cylinder liner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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