GTwannabe Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The issue is it really worth it to drop down to a 7/8 size F-150 when you speak of a 4 door Mid-sized truck? The other issue is how many people are considering downsizing just to save $250 bucks a year on gas? (figuring 19 combined for the F-150 and 21 (being very generous) combined for a mid-sized) As for the those 20-30K CUVs...they share platforms with car based products that help pay the costs....a Mid-sized pickup would have to do that by itself..which is nearly nil at 100K units a year...nor would people be lining up for a 30K Crew Cab Ranger or whatever when you can get a bigger Explorer (better for everyday driving) for slightly more... Explorer is a glorified minivan... can't tow, off-road ability sucks, can't haul messy loads without trashing the interior. Very few truck buyers cross-shop soccer mom mobiles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Explorer is a glorified minivan... can't tow, off-road ability sucks, can't haul messy loads without trashing the interior. Very few truck buyers cross-shop soccer mom mobiles. And real men buy F-150s...no sissy Rangers....so whats your point again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 And real men buy F-150s...no sissy Rangers....so whats your point again? Real men drive trucks with manual transmissions, which aren't even available in F-150. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The other issue is how many people are considering downsizing just to save $250 bucks a year on gas? (figuring 19 combined for the F-150 and 21 (being very generous) combined for a mid-sized) MPG is a big factor, but so is overall size of the vehicle. nor would people be lining up for a 30K Crew Cab Ranger or whatever when you can get a bigger Explorer (better for everyday driving) for slightly more... This is where your non-truck needing ideals shine through. Truck buyers, who really need/want/prefer an external cargo area are not ever going to cross shop with an Explorer. Why is this so hard for you to understand? They could care less if you believe it's a better everyday driver or not. The Explorer simply does not provide the owner the tools needed, end of story. We get it, you like cars and SUV/CUV's. You have no need for a pickup. But the fact of the matter is, many truck buyers aren't willing to pay top dollar on a vehicle they have to compromise with. And real men buy F-150s...no sissy Rangers....so whats your point again? So if real men buy F150's and not Rangers, what makes you think they'd ever consider purchasing an Explorer, which is even less manly than a Ranger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havelock Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 F150 has with a V-6, but I keep coming back to Edstock's new word-PORKAGE ......centage of current 150 sales as well as those weekend warrior sales that either want a smaller truck or are not buying a truck because they don't see a reasonable compromise. High gas prices kill weekend warrior sales leaving most of truck market demanding full size trucks. T6 to the US is DOA. Enter the next F150...those that NEED a truck can have their cake and eat it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 MPG is a big factor, but so is overall size of the vehicle. Truck buyers, who really need/want/prefer an external cargo area are not ever going to cross shop with an Explorer. Why is this so hard for you to understand? They could care less if you believe it's a better everyday driver or not. The Explorer simply does not provide the owner the tools needed, end of story. We get it, you like cars and SUV/CUV's. You have no need for a pickup. But the fact of the matter is, many truck buyers aren't willing to pay top dollar on a vehicle they have to compromise with. Hey I wouldn't mind a pickup truck, but hell the Escape I have does 95% of the things I need it do around my house..... Anyways....let me poke a couple holes into your argument.... You state size as a big issue...thats all fine and good, but you do realize that if you get a 4 door Mid-size pickup, its going to be nearly identical in size to a F-150? I'd even venture to say that the rear seats will have less space then say an Escape. So you say I want a 2 door pickup...fine...but then what is the point if an F-150 can do the same job, get nearly the same MPG's and the only thing against it is its size? I don't think Ford is going to lose a sale because of that. You say you want good MPG's....ok maybe we can use a 2L EB in this Midsize truck....that will be great for MPG's but the truck will be just about useless to tow anything or even haul anything...We add in a V6 to the mix...guess what? we might get an extra mile or two in MPG's in a Mid-sized application....yet again...why bother doing this when a F-150 can do nearly the same thing. Then lets add in the fact that this mid size truck will be lucky to sell 100K units a year...where is it going to be built? There isn't any space for it in North America. Built it any place else as it stands now, and it gets hit with a 25% Chicken tax....yet again making it economically unviable to make money for Ford. So I'll turn around your question: Why is this so hard for you to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Hey I wouldn't mind a pickup truck, but hell the Escape I have does 95% of the things I need it do around my house..... Anyways....let me poke a couple holes into your argument.... You state size as a big issue...thats all fine and good, but you do realize that if you get a 4 door Mid-size pickup, its going to be nearly identical in size to a F-150? I'd even venture to say that the rear seats will have less space then say an Escape. So you say I want a 2 door pickup...fine...but then what is the point if an F-150 can do the same job, get nearly the same MPG's and the only thing against it is its size? I don't think Ford is going to lose a sale because of that. You say you want good MPG's....ok maybe we can use a 2L EB in this Midsize truck....that will be great for MPG's but the truck will be just about useless to tow anything or even haul anything...We add in a V6 to the mix...guess what? we might get an extra mile or two in MPG's in a Mid-sized application....yet again...why bother doing this when a F-150 can do nearly the same thing. Then lets add in the fact that this mid size truck will be lucky to sell 100K units a year...where is it going to be built? There isn't any space for it in North America. Built it any place else as it stands now, and it gets hit with a 25% Chicken tax....yet again making it economically unviable to make money for Ford. So I'll turn around your question: Why is this so hard for you to understand? Nearly identical size? An F-150 crew cab 4x4 with Ecoboost weighs 5600lbs. A T6 crew cab 4x4 weights 4500lbs, is a full 2 FEET shorter than the F-150 and is the exactly the same width as a Nissan Frontier. 81% the size and MUCH easier to park due to reduced width and wheelbase/turning diameter. Also, why do you insist that the 2.0 Ecoboost wouldn't be able to tow anything? Its power numbers are superior to Toyota's 4.0 V6, which can tow 7400lbs in the Tacoma. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Nearly identical size? An F-150 crew cab 4x4 with Ecoboost weighs 5600lbs. A T6 crew cab 4x4 weights 4500lbs, is a full 2 FEET shorter than the F-150 and is the exactly the same width as a Nissan Frontier. 81% the size and MUCH easier to park due to reduced width and wheelbase/turning diameter. Was comparing it to a standard size F-150...a Super Crew F-150 is a $7700 upgrade to a standard XL F-150...so your "Cheap" Ranger is going to cost around $30K Also, why do you insist that the 2.0 Ecoboost wouldn't be able to tow anything? Its power numbers are superior to Toyota's 4.0 V6, which can tow 7400lbs in the Tacoma. I'm basing this on the Edge and the Explorer....which neither is tow rated (their V6 powered models are rated at 3500lbs for the Edge (only 909 lbs for payload) and 5000 for the Explorer (can't find its payload rating))..so based on this I don't see the EB 2L being a very robost engine for doing "work" where it will be in the boost all the time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Was comparing it to a standard size F-150...a Super Crew F-150 is a $7700 upgrade to a standard XL F-150...so your "Cheap" Ranger is going to cost around $30K I'm basing this on the Edge and the Explorer....which neither is tow rated (their V6 powered models are rated at 3500lbs for the Edge (only 909 lbs for payload) and 5000 for the Explorer (can't find its payload rating))..so based on this I don't see the EB 2L being a very robost engine for doing "work" where it will be in the boost all the time... Who said it had to be "cheap"? I would have no problem dropping $35k for that T6. Lack of FWD utility tow ratings is meaningless. Ecoboost is pushing those little transaxles to their torque limits. In addition, you can fit a much bigger radiator/intercooler in a truck than a Focus to keep everything cool at max boost. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Who said it had to be "cheap"? I would have no problem dropping $35k for that T6. Good for you, while the rest of the population says "I can spend $35k for a T6, or $36k for an F150 that is much more capable, only gets 1-2 MPG less, keeps me and my family safer, is more comfortable for my family of 4.3, and will tow whatever the hell I want. I think I'll take the F150!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Good for you, while the rest of the population says "I can spend $35k for a T6, or $36k for an F150 that is much more capable, only gets 1-2 MPG less, keeps me and my family safer, is more comfortable for my family of 4.3, and will tow whatever the hell I want. I think I'll take the F150!" Or... they buy the one that fits in the garage, can be parked easily in a tight parking space/on the street, and doesn't require a stepladder to reach over the bed rails. Edited February 14, 2012 by GTwannabe 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 This gets back to Ford opting out of Mid Sized trucks for now and investing more heavily in existing products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Or... they buy the one that fits in the garage, can be parked easily in a tight parking space/on the street, and doesn't require a stepladder to reach over the bed rails. If size was such an issue, I think people would be rejecting the F-150...and its pretty obvious they aren't... Not to mention the vast majority of people don't park their cars in a garage from what I've seen...heck I barely fit an Escape and a Mustang into my 2 car Garage and have room to get into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Or... they buy the one that fits in the garage, can be parked easily in a tight parking space/on the street, and doesn't require a stepladder to reach over the bed rails. Interesting...my F250 (which is larger in all dimensions than my F150) fits in my garage (granted, it is a detached garage), is a bit tough to park in tight parking spaces, but I do know how to drive, and can parallel park it if necessary, and I don't need a stepladder to reach over the bed rails...I put stuff I need to access regularly where I can reach it easily. The F150 feels like a go cart compared to it. My father drives a SportTrac for his daily driver (he also has a SuperCab F250 for towing his fifth wheel). The ST is so tight that I could barely buckle my seat belt in the back seat (I'm only 5'-10", and I'm not a fat-a$$, and the back seat is NOT comfortable for me in any direction), he doesn't feel comfortable towing his 17' bass boat (not sure of the weight, but it is NOT a big boat) with it, and it's fuel economy is very similar to my '05 F150 crew cab. The bed is 4'-?" long and is worthless for anything other than a large trunk. You get much bigger than it, and you are encroaching on full-size territory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss444 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Or... they buy the one that fits in the garage, can be parked easily in a tight parking space/on the street, and doesn't require a stepladder to reach over the bed rails. Do you know how insanely unreasonable you sound??? Anyway, it's best just to sit back and watch the tide turn....and how there will be unanimous praise when Ford does introduce a smaller pickup/smaller F-150 here. The days of 20mpg (at best) F-150s is soon coming to an end. Ecoboost isn't the savior of the world it was supposed to be and something is going to have to give. And that thing is weight. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 3-across seating is not needed 3-across seating was in the OP's spec. Therefore, for the purposes of this exercise, it is needed. And thanks for ruining another thread. I'm restarting Ifeg's thread, and if you piss in it, you're going on a two week vacation, capiche? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) how there will be unanimous praise when Ford does introduce a smaller pickup/smaller F-150 here bam. You're gone for another two weeks. Shoot. We're just going to make it an indefinite thing. Coming here and trashing the people that are already here is bad form. You are persona non grata. Good bye. Edited February 15, 2012 by RichardJensen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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