Toyota Camry beats Ford F-150 as most 'American made'

[NickF1011]

You are undoubtedly correct about why the import brands are building here. Now where is the Fusion made again? Oh yes Mexico.

 

It's cheaper for Ford to build the Fusion in Mexico. Also likely cheaper for Ford to build in Mexico than for Honda to build in Mexico instead of the U.S. due to trade agreements and import restrictions. And it is certainly cheaper than if Ford tried to build it in Japan an import it back. :lol:

 

And did you miss that Ford's C/D production is expanding to Flat Rock, MI later this year?

Edited July 10, 2012 by NickF1011

[BlackHorse]

Saying that the Camry is " Most American" is just annoying. It is just a way to state it to make it sound like they are an American Company, they are not, they are a Japanese company and nothing can change that. I support anyones right to purchase one because that is their right as a free American. Even if you want to state facts to claim domestic content ( though even this has been questioned ) fine, but to make what is a patriotic statement is a spit in the face to all that died defending the freedom we all enjoy and take for granted. I support their right to say it because again that is the freedom they enjoy here in this country, but I wish they would think a little bit more about what they are saying means.

 

Ok, following that logic, no American should ever buy a car (even a Ford car) that was manufactured in Europe because this country was founded by Europeans who came here to escape the persecution they suffered in Europe. No American should ever buy a car (even a Ford car) that was manufactured in England because of the whole American Revolution and how many Americans shed theiir blood to be free and independent of England. No southern American should ever by a car manufactured north of the Mason Dixon line and similarly no northern American should buy a car manufactured south of the Mason Dixon line because, you know, the Civil War and how many Americans died during that horrible event. No Americans should ever buy any car (even a Ford) that is manufactured in Canada, becuase by golly the whole War of 1812 and look how many Americans died for their country during that conflict. No American should ever buy a car that is manufactured in Mexico (Fusion?) because of the whole Mexican - American war of 1846 / 1848. Many Americans gave their lives during that conflict to protect the United States and the newly formed State of Texas. And to top it all off if any American ever does buy a car no matter where its from they should never drive it because the odds are quite good that some point you are gong to be using petroleum products that originated in the middle east where Americans have been getting killed for their country for the better part of the past decade.

 

I mean if we are going to base the decision of what car we buy or don't buy on whether or not the country of origin has had some violent conflicts with prior generations of Americans then the end result is that you aren't going to be able to buy a car from anyone to include Americans. It's a silly argument for a reason not to buy a car. And it's not that I'm not patriotic about my country. I served in the military, went to war and all that so believe me I fully understand what it is to put your life on the line for your country. But I'm not going to wrap myself up the flag when it comes time to buy a car. Quite frankly I don't find the current viewpoints of the UAW to be pro-America at all for the most part so why exactly should I support them?

 

You're right about one thing, Toyota is not an American Company. But guess what, neither is Ford. They are both international corporations that do business around the world. Ford has more factories overseas than it does in the United States. I feel pretty certain that the corporate executives at both of these companies do not conduct business with the deciding factor about their products being that they meet all the patriotic requirements. It's just business to them. The fact that the Camry has the highest content of American sourced parts is most likely not even by design. It probably just turned out that way because that was the cheapest and most efficient way for Toyota to make the car. Does it make for a feather in their cap that they can use in their advertising? Sure. But rest assured that this was not the goal from the outset on the part of Toyota.

Edited July 10, 2012 by BlackHorse

[bobbyd]

Not sure why this "sniper" is anti-American, but in response to him regarding the Asian invasion he needs to remember a few things. Read the book "Agents of Influence" and maybe, just maybe, you'll open your closed mind to the fact that Japan is still at war with us, but this time its against Ford and GM, primarily...since Chrysler is really foreign owned. We all know about the impossibility of shipping Fords/Gms to Japan..they tear them down for the so-called phoney import inspection. Any car imported into Japan is slapped with an insurance policy that charges 3 times above their domestics. Japan, starting with Marysville Hondas and continuing throughout EVERY state that allows them to build are given incentives, big tax incentives...and they are not usually purchased plants but rather leased. However, the domestic US plants for Ford are bought and paying taxes and supporting the community for decades upon decades. Ford also pays high pensions and health to retirees....close to 100,000. the IMPORTS pay nothing and will NOT pay anything for decades to come. Also, as we all know, the profits from the imports go back to their protected homeland. Whenever I see protected workers like tenured teachers and federal employees driving imports and slamming Ford/GM I ask myself, "things would sure change if the Asian importers started importing teachers and competitive workers who would take their jobs away!" WOW, you would see protests all across the nation. The bottomline, our country has dug a whole and destroyed our domestic capitalism to a point of desperation where people will line up for and fight for a minimum pay job. Our government sold us out...unlike the Japanese and now Korean government who maintain protectionism for their car companies. Its an unfair playing field, but its like a cancer that has invaded our country....its too big to kill..and if you even mention these disadvantages the usual response is : "but these imported companies are giving America jobs....just like Walmart is doing!" Forget about the nose of the camel in the tent...the whole beast is inside with no way out!

[SoonerLS]

Toyota is not an American Company. But guess what, neither is Ford. They are both international corporations that do business around the world.

Factories, schmactories. Where are the Global HQs of Ford and Toyota?

[aneekr]

The point I'm making here is, it doesn't really matter does it? All of these companies are global.

 

That's correct; as I noted in post #18, Cars.com conducted a survey which found that indeed it doesn't matter to most consumers. After all, the most "patriotic" action on the part of any consumer is to choose the product that best meets his or her requirements regardless of where final assembly takes place or where the parent company's corporate hq is located.

[aneekr]

Factories, schmactories. Where are the Global HQs of Ford and Toyota?

 

Earth

[twmalonehunter]

While I can see points of view from both sides of this issue, the part I haven't seen mentioned is that the domestics have themselves to blame for the current situation. Had they managed to manufacture vehicles that were even close to the quality of the Honda and Toyota cars of 20 to 30 years ago we might not be having this conversation. As it stands though, there are entire generations that will only consider imports because of the perceived quality of such vehicles, even as the actual quality gap is for the most part closed. I buy American now, but there was a time when I didn't, because the cars made by Ford and GM were crap, plain and simple. And I have always bought Ford trucks (Broncos also), because there was never an imports that was better, even though the Ford trucks of the 1980's did not hold up very well.

 

Bottom line, it takes a long time to change public perception, but Ford is doing a good job. Keep building quality cars and trucks and you will gain more and more customers. Look how far Hyundai/Kia have come with there public perception. 10 years ago their vehicles were absolute junk and most people knew it.

[bobbyd]

There are many reasons why we have the situation we are in. Culture is a main reason. You have this culture in Japan..its Japanese...in Korea..its Korean...but in the US its "multi-cultural!" Hispanics are growing at an incredible rate....The market has shifted in the past decade or so to buyers that are multi-cultural. Asians buy Asian...San Fransicso is now 60% Asian...and if you have recently gone there you will have difficulty finding American cars. Also, the market shift to women and minorities,who also are traditionally buyers of imports. Popular Mechanics' article had shown the purchase of Camry's by women buyers at 50%!

Ford holds its title on F-series trucks, because of the middle class guy ...and not by women or most minorities. Once a person buys or mostly leases a Honda, Kia or whatever...they stay with that import. Your average import driver has not driven a Ford and most likely never will.

Perception is their excuse and an easy way out. If Ford had the acceleration problem with millions of their cars , like Toyota had, you can bet today that Ford would be considerably smaller and probably terminal eventually. You only have to look at how Toyota rebounded to confirm the sad fact that "perception" is only an excuse and not a fact .

Edited July 10, 2012 by bobbyd

[SoonerLS]

That's correct; as I noted in post #18, Cars.com conducted a survey which found that indeed it doesn't matter to most consumers. After all, the most "patriotic" action on the part of any consumer is to choose the product that best meets his or her requirements regardless of where final assembly takes place or where the parent company's corporate hq is located.

I'm not talking about patriotism; I'm just talking about the companies themselves. Ford's HQ is in Michigan, which makes it an American company, regardless of where else it does business. Likewise, Toyota's HQ is in Japan, making it a Japanese company. The HQs are where the money ultimately goes and the power resides, so that's the part that's important, IMHO.

 

Personally, I prefer buying from an American company (Ford, in particular), but I don't begrudge anyone the right to buy whatever they want. If you want to buy from a foreign company, I don't particularly care--that's none of my business.

[tzach]

Ok, following that logic, no American should ever buy a car (even a Ford car) that was manufactured in Europe because this country was founded by Europeans who came here to escape the persecution they suffered in Europe. No American should ever buy a car (even a Ford car) that was manufactured in England because of the whole American Revolution and how many Americans shed theiir blood to be free and independent of England. No southern American should ever by a car manufactured north of the Mason Dixon line and similarly no northern American should buy a car manufactured south of the Mason Dixon line because, you know, the Civil War and how many Americans died during that horrible event. No Americans should ever buy any car (even a Ford) that is manufactured in Canada, becuase by golly the whole War of 1812 and look how many Americans died for their country during that conflict. No American should ever buy a car that is manufactured in Mexico (Fusion?) because of the whole Mexican - American war of 1846 / 1848. Many Americans gave their lives during that conflict to protect the United States and the newly formed State of Texas. And to top it all off if any American ever does buy a car no matter where its from they should never drive it because the odds are quite good that some point you are gong to be using petroleum products that originated in the middle east where Americans have been getting killed for their country for the better part of the past decade.

 

I mean if we are going to base the decision of what car we buy or don't buy on whether or not the country of origin has had some violent conflicts with prior generations of Americans then the end result is that you aren't going to be able to buy a car from anyone to include Americans. It's a silly argument for a reason not to buy a car. And it's not that I'm not patriotic about my country. I served in the military, went to war and all that so believe me I fully understand what it is to put your life on the line for your country. But I'm not going to wrap myself up the flag when it comes time to buy a car. Quite frankly I don't find the current viewpoints of the UAW to be pro-America at all for the most part so why exactly should I support them?

 

You're right about one thing, Toyota is not an American Company. But guess what, neither is Ford. They are both international corporations that do business around the world. Ford has more factories overseas than it does in the United States. I feel pretty certain that the corporate executives at both of these companies do not conduct business with the deciding factor about their products being that they meet all the patriotic requirements. It's just business to them. The fact that the Camry has the highest content of American sourced parts is most likely not even by design. It probably just turned out that way because that was the cheapest and most efficient way for Toyota to make the car. Does it make for a feather in their cap that they can use in their advertising? Sure. But rest assured that this was not the goal from the outset on the part of Toyota.

Did you even read my post? I said nothing about not buying a Camry, in fact I totally support anyones freedom to do so! My problem with the statement that it the "Most American Car" . a subjective statement meant to play to peoples Patriotism (if anyone has any left). I understand Ford is now a global company but it was founded in this country and helped turn this country into the great country it is (or was). It is part of americana. Buy anything you want just dont try to tell me any foreign product is the most american because it is an import and nothing can change that, no matter what Cars.com says. That doesn't make the Camry evil or bad to me just the competition, its just not american no matter how anyone tries to justify it.

[Donaldo]

There are many reasons why we have the situation we are in. Culture is a main reason. You have this culture in Japan..its Japanese...in Korea..its Korean...but in the US its "multi-cultural!" Hispanics are growing at an incredible rate....The market has shifted in the past decade or so to buyers that are multi-cultural. Asians buy Asian...San Fransicso is now 60% Asian...and if you have recently gone there you will have difficulty finding American cars.

 

GM as we know it would probably be dead now if it wasn't for Asians in Asian countries like China who really like their Chevys, Buicks, and Cadillacs, especially those imported from the USA.

One of Harley-Davidson's main overseas markets is...Japan. Ford has a pretty strong presence in Thailand and Taiwan, those countries are still in Asia last time I checked. If you spend time in Asian countries, you'll see how much they actually like US made stuff and how they'll pay far more for it than we do in the US. Red Wing and Danner can sell $300+ US made shoes all the time in Japan, but a typical US consumer prefers $50 Chinese knockoffs.

[RichardJensen]

I don't think so. GM gets a lot of volume out of China, not a lot of profits.

[bobbyd]

Here we go again. China does not have any plants in the USA like Japan and Korea do...yet! The GM vehicles are mostly built with a Chinese partnership at the 11 plants in China. GM exports account for about 1%. China is arriving late to the game, as far as vehicles...but they will soon be building here. It should be noted that China has imposed tariffs on imports of vehicles and parts into their country. Ford does not export any vehicles to China.

As far as jeans and shoes being loved by the Asians...that's not close to comparing to vehicles which cost a little bit more...or maybe you'll disagree with that, too! Oh by the way, I spent almost 2 years in Asia...they have select groups that buy insignificant amounts of US stuff...mostly black market for profit. As far as their view of us....they mostly couldn't care less...and speaking of care...you better be careful where you go, since they are not multi cultural and average Americans stand out like a sore thumb! Do you know what a 'Slicky boy is!" You better, if you plan to visit any Asian country!

As far as Harley motorcycles in Japan...last year Harley sold less than 19,000 worldwide outside of the US. Japan sales alone from their Big 4 was well over 600,000! 3% would be a fair number!

Edited July 10, 2012 by bobbyd

[bzcat]

It would be interesting to see what car company in the USA exports the most cars overseas.

 

I know Honda exports a fair number of Civic cars made in Indiana.

 

BMW has been the leading car exporter from the US for a while now. The entire global supply of X3, X5, and X6 comes from South Carolina. And before that, the entire global Z3 roadster. Mercedes is a close 2nd, follow more distantly by Chrylser and Honda.

[mettech]

BMW has been the leading car exporter from the US for a while now. The entire global supply of X3, X5, and X6 comes from South Carolina. And before that, the entire global Z3 roadster. Mercedes is a close 2nd, follow more distantly by Chrylser and Honda.

 

Now that info is something to ponder...

[RichardJensen]

Now that info is something to ponder...

Why? BMW doesn't have enough volume to justify local assembly of their products. If Ford were the size of BMW, they'd probably be able to supply the whole world from NA plants.

[jpd80]

I don't know why people think the USA should be an exporter of vehicles, Ford, GM and Chrysler covered that decades ago

by going forth and manufacturing in other areas of the world. Today, it's about becoming efficient by reducing production capacity

listening to the whole market and building vehicles buyers really want

 

The thought of American plants going to multiple shifts has to be pleasing to those who worked hard to save the industry

and now it looks like the market is really beginning to grow again, I hope all three keep their eyes on buyers, quality.and profit.

Edited July 14, 2012 by jpd80

[Kev-Mo]

If the cars listed are so American, they why was there a big supply constraint for these vehicles after the tsunami? It just doesn't make sense. The so called "less American" domestics had far less problems of supply than the so called "American" import brands. This is all spun by that silly metric based around how consumers embrace the vehicle.

Ichiro Suzuki may play here, but he is not "American".

[Noah Harbinger]

If the cars listed are so American, they why was there a big supply constraint for these vehicles after the tsunami? It just doesn't make sense. The so called "less American" domestics had far less problems of supply than the so called "American" import brands. This is all spun by that silly metric based around how consumers embrace the vehicle.

Ichiro Suzuki may play here, but he is not "American".

 

It only takes one part with no alternative sources to hold up an entire vehicle. You could have a car that's 99.9% US made, from the raw sources to the assembly line, but if one rare earth element necessary for the steel for the engine block (just talking out of my ass here, of course) is only refined at a plant that got washed away in the tsunami, it's going to be a while before your line is moving again.

[goinbroke2]

Riddle me this;

Ford builds cars in NA. Then instead of importing to the UK it builds plants there and calls itself "domestic" in UK. People believe it and buy fords. The local REAL UK auto plants all fold as ford (the UK domestic company remember) swallows them all up.(They either go out of business, a-la austin, or are bought by others, like jag/rover) Years go by and more profit is to be made building tranny's in germany for example so ford being a company does what? Oh yes, moves production there. The money (just to be clear) that FOE or FOA makes, belongs to, and is used by....Ford in...NA!

 

So..the japanese being smart and more importantly, copying what works, start building veh here, call them domestic here, convince people they are domestic and....start leading the sales race...SOUND FAMILIAR??? And where do you think the $$$ goes?...BACK TO THE COMPANY HEAD OFFICE IN JAPAN!

 

Yes Ford gave lots of people in the UK a job building fords there....over time though, what remains? Does ford really "care" about the local UK worker anymore than it would a local brazilian or Thialand worker? NO! And neither does toyota!

 

I forget the % numbers but it was something like "for every person on the line in a factory (ford/chev/dodge) there are 13 spin off jobs. For every person on the line of a jap factory there was 2 spin off jobs" Basically, yes your installing a toyota headlight bucket, but the bucket was manufactured by a japanese company and shipped here for assembly. Far as I know this has changed somewhat as more toyo stuff is being manufactured here but it is still not equal.

But even if it was equal...the money is still being sent back to the home country. (japan/korea/europe)

 

The way I see it, a foreign company importing/selling stuff here is economic suicide. (for us) A foreign company importing what it can and manufacturing here is still economic suicide, but it is "hidden" and makes people feel better.

 

Bottom line, Coke/McDonald's/Ford/IBM/etc all tally their $$ at their homebase. (The US.) Foreign companies do the same, to think otherwise is foolish. Toblerone chocolates are still based in switzerland whether they are made here too or not.