Fallout: Massacre @ Cinema 9

[cal50]

Comparing gun related deaths to motor vehicle deaths is just plain stupid. Moror vehicle deaths are overwhelmingly accidental (there may be a miniscule number of intentional homicides by vehicle). The statistic you cited for crime related gun deaths omits accidental gun related deaths.Moreover guns are still the leading factor in criminal homicides.

The purpose of a motor vehicle is transportation. The purpose of a firearm is to launch a projectile into a target. When that target is a human being the result is often death.

 

You might as well say we don't need gun control because more people die from cancer.

 

 

 

Most "accidents" are not accidents but negligence or mistakes on the part of the operator. An accident would be a part failure or something out of the operators control. Neglect is operator error be it a firearm, vehicle or medical mistake from a provider.

 

One way to look at firearm deaths is to look at the total numbers and break them down to categories. Most are from operator error or negligence on the part of the person using the item. Since all firearm deaths are far smaller in number than vehicle deaths or medical / surgical mistakes its a sensationalized number. People that have a dislike for firearms try to make it a major social problem when there are far more numerous things that take human life from sheer stupidity or negligence.

 

Firearm deaths are WAY down on the list of things that snuff out our fellow man.

Very few of them are true accidents and usually a person is responsible for it.

[napfirst]

Comparing gun related deaths to motor vehicle deaths is just plain stupid. Moror vehicle deaths are overwhelmingly accidental (there may be a miniscule number of intentional homicides by vehicle). The statistic you cited for crime related gun deaths omits accidental gun related deaths.Moreover guns are still the leading factor in criminal homicides.

The purpose of a motor vehicle is transportation. The purpose of a firearm is to launch a projectile into a target. When that target is a human being the result is often death.

 

You might as well say we don't need gun control because more people die from cancer.

What would be your definition of "gun control".......what controls would you like to see?

[FordBuyer]

What would be your definition of "gun control".......what controls would you like to see?

 

I would like to see assault rifles banned AGAIN. No one with clean record like Holmes should be allowed to buy one legally as if it was some kind of normal purchase like shotgun for skeet shooting. At least make it harder for some crazy to pull off mass killing where he can spray 100 rounds in a minute of so. I feel that is reasonable and necessary in these crazy times with so many individuals with mental health problems running around untreated and mental health institutions long gone is most states. The answer is not to sell them assault rifles with big clips. Fricking, simple common sense. And how much is it costing us for hospitals to staff emergency sections to handle 40 shooting victims all at once?

[akirby]

I would like to see assault rifles banned AGAIN. No one with clean record like Holmes should be allowed to buy one legally as if it was some kind of normal purchase like shotgun for skeet shooting. At least make it harder for some crazy to pull off mass killing where he can spray 100 rounds in a minute of so. I feel that is reasonable and necessary in these crazy times with so many individuals with mental health problems running around untreated and mental health institutions long gone is most states. The answer is not to sell them assault rifles with big clips. Fricking, simple common sense. And how much is it costing us for hospitals to staff emergency sections to handle 40 shooting victims all at once?

 

How do you prevent illegal sales of assault weapons?

[fordmantpw]

How do you prevent illegal sales of assault weapons?

 

The same way you prevent illegal sales of illegal drugs. Oh wait...

[sprinter]

I would like to see assault rifles banned AGAIN. No one with clean record like Holmes should be allowed to buy one legally as if it was some kind of normal purchase like shotgun for skeet shooting. At least make it harder for some crazy to pull off mass killing where he can spray 100 rounds in a minute of so. I feel that is reasonable and necessary in these crazy times with so many individuals with mental health problems running around untreated and mental health institutions long gone is most states. The answer is not to sell them assault rifles with big clips. Fricking, simple common sense. And how much is it costing us for hospitals to staff emergency sections to handle 40 shooting victims all at once?

 

Although the shooting was a terrible thing to have happened, comparing 40 to millions of illegal aliens which are truly overloading our hospital emergency rooms is a no brainer. That is where the real burden is and being funded through yours and mine tax dollars.

And since automobile accidents kill more people than guns, let's eliminate all cars and trucks and just ride bicycles. Just common sense.

[napfirst]

I would like to see assault rifles banned AGAIN. No one with clean record like Holmes should be allowed to buy one legally as if it was some kind of normal purchase like shotgun for skeet shooting. At least make it harder for some crazy to pull off mass killing where he can spray 100 rounds in a minute of so. I feel that is reasonable and necessary in these crazy times with so many individuals with mental health problems running around untreated and mental health institutions long gone is most states. The answer is not to sell them assault rifles with big clips. Fricking, simple common sense. And how much is it costing us for hospitals to staff emergency sections to handle 40 shooting victims all at once?

Assualt weapons account for very few murders in the US......we get this knee-jerk reaction everytime there's one of the incidences....

[fmccap]

I would like to see assault rifles banned AGAIN. No one with clean record like Holmes should be allowed to buy one legally as if it was some kind of normal purchase like shotgun for skeet shooting. At least make it harder for some crazy to pull off mass killing where he can spray 100 rounds in a minute of so. I feel that is reasonable and necessary in these crazy times with so many individuals with mental health problems running around untreated and mental health institutions long gone is most states. The answer is not to sell them assault rifles with big clips. Fricking, simple common sense. And how much is it costing us for hospitals to staff emergency sections to handle 40 shooting victims all at once?

Did this type of incident ever happen when there was a ban on them?

 

Name something that is banned by the government that you can't get?

 

When something is banned you always get a black market that brings more violence than it replaced.

Edited July 27, 2012 by fmccap

[fmccap]

I would like to see assault rifles banned AGAIN. No one with clean record like Holmes should be allowed to buy one legally as if it was some kind of normal purchase like shotgun for skeet shooting. At least make it harder for some crazy to pull off mass killing where he can spray 100 rounds in a minute of so. I feel that is reasonable and necessary in these crazy times with so many individuals with mental health problems running around untreated and mental health institutions long gone is most states. The answer is not to sell them assault rifles with big clips. Fricking, simple common sense. And how much is it costing us for hospitals to staff emergency sections to handle 40 shooting victims all at once?

[silvrsvt]

 

Where did they get their data to make that claim? Interesting...

 

 

[Trimdingman]

The right to bear arms was included in the constitution to make sure that the people had more firepower than the government in case it got too big for it's britches and needed to be knocked down a peg or two. Government controlling firearms is unconstitutional and dangerous. If there is a vacuum of security because of a disarmed citizenery, the government will see itself as being obliged to fill it, but actually, all they are doing is looking out for their own security and leaving the citizens defenseless under the guise of preventing mayhem. If some of the people in the theatre had been armed, they could have taken him out. If he knew they were going to be armed, maybe he wouldn't have even done it. Even crazy people will think twice about shooting if there will be shooting back. I was raised in a household and community where people owned lots of guns. There were no gangs in that town. It was not cool to be unsafe with guns. It was looked down on and ridiculed. No loaded guns in the house. Always assume that a gun is loaded and never allow it to point at another person.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Trimdingman

[Versa-Tech]

Gah, I foresee this topic dying a slow and painful death...

[Mark B. Morrow]

Priorities.

[TomServo92]

Priorities.

 

If the anti-gun lobby would stop spending money to take away firearms from law-abiding citizens and forcing the pro-gun lobby to counter it, those resources could be employed to provide health care for the under-privileged.

 

Yep, it's priorities all right.

[the_spaniard]

Priorities.

 

That is definitely the current state of mental health care.

[Mark B. Morrow]

If the anti-gun lobby would stop spending money to take away firearms from law-abiding citizens and forcing the pro-gun lobby to counter it, those resources could be employed to provide health care for the under-privileged.

 

Yep, it's priorities all right.

 

You think the NRA gives a damn about funding mental health programs? You're kidding, right? The NRA is all about spreading unfounded fears that any regulation is tantamount to having the feds kick in every door looking for guns. Remember, the NRA opposed every regulation from backround checks to outlawing the sale of cop killer bullets. They don't offer any solutions only fear that they can make money from.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Mark B. Morrow

[TomServo92]

You think the NRA gives a damn about funding mental health programs? You're kidding, right? The NRA is all about spreading unfounded fears that any regulation is tantamount to having the feds kick in every door looking for guns. Remember the NRA opposed every regulation from backround checks to outlawing the sale of cop killer bullets. They don't offer any soultions only fear that they can make money from.

 

I never said the NRA would do it. Just perhaps the NRA wouldn't get the financial support it gets if the anti-gun lobby wasn't pushing for gun bans. People might use that money for something else like, for instance, charities. Believe it or not, gun owners are generally nice people and not fiery eyed, violent zealots bent on mowing people down in the streets. For instance, I own several guns and (*gasp*) I also regularly give to charities.

 

By the way, the ant-gun lobby does it own fear mongering to garner support and money. Don't try that argument with me. It doesn't hold water.

 

And just for the record, I don't belong to the NRA.

[cal50]

You think the NRA gives a damn about funding mental health programs? You're kidding, right? The NRA is all about spreading unfounded fears that any regulation is tantamount to having the feds kick in every door looking for guns. Remember, the NRA opposed every regulation from backround checks to outlawing the sale of cop killer bullets. They don't offer any solutions only fear that they can make money from.

 

 

Cop killer bullets?

Now you are showing your ignorance and media spoon fed hype. Despite no law enforcement people ever being killed by an AP (armor piercing) bullet the media MADE it a sensationalized problem that never existed. As a side note AP bullets do far less tissue damage than HP or SP ammo. Also there are a host of other calibers that defeat Kevlar easily. The dubbed bullet you mention was a KTW made teflon coated bullet marketed for law enforcement. You should net be firing ANYTHING at the police in the 1st place but that's another topic.

 

Your mentioned reference is as asinine as the "plastic gun" BS that was stated to pass through metal detectors. I guess most people missed the fact that a Glock has more steel parts (barrel, springs, etc.) than most compact guns already.

 

The NRA also supports laws that impact criminals and not lawful gun owners. When a law is linked to deny the lawful individual access or conditional access they are against them.

The NRA is the biggest organization for training law enforcement officers and individuals in the country. They do a lot of good for the people that partake in their training programs.

 

The NRA is linked to preserve the 2nd amendment,period.

Does the NRA care about mental health ? I am sure they do (myself included) and does not want mental defectives to own firearms.

These people should be put on a psych. hold long before they attempt to buy a firearm or if they already have one.

 

The irony is some people demand more gun related laws. The Colorado shooter mailed a detailed account of what he wanted to do to the university. Had it been opened weeks earlier I doubt he would have been detained or admitted ever though he basically said what he had planned. No law would have given that kind of heads up or deterred his actions. Its the actions of a social misfit and hopefully he gets a date with the needle in short order.

 

Don't put the blood of the actions of one mental defective on every law abiding gun owner.

[Langston Hughes]

Since we are comparing guns to cars and cancer can i ask what is the deaths per mile driven of guns, or perhaps the deaths vs. early detection of guns? We should compare gun violence to gun violence and cars to cars.

[napfirst]

Since we are comparing guns to cars and cancer can i ask what is the deaths per mile driven of guns, or perhaps the deaths vs. early detection of guns? We should compare gun violence to gun violence and cars to cars.

Still waiting for your answer about the Harlem assembly plant............

[Mark B. Morrow]

I never said the NRA would do it. Just perhaps the NRA wouldn't get the financial support it gets if the anti-gun lobby wasn't pushing for gun bans. People might use that money for something else like, for instance, charities. Believe it or not, gun owners are generally nice people and not fiery eyed, violent zealots bent on mowing people down in the streets. For instance, I own several guns and (*gasp*) I also regularly give to charities.

 

By the way, the ant-gun lobby does it own fear mongering to garner support and money. Don't try that argument with me. It doesn't hold water.

 

And just for the record, I don't belong to the NRA.

 

My brother and several friends own guns as did my dad. I don't have anything at all against law abiding gun owners. Growing up and living in Western PA it's pretty much impossible not to know gun owners. My problem with the gun lobby is that they stand against every form of regulation, even things designed to keep guns out of the hands of those who we can agree should not have them. All rights have limits . Certainly no one thinks that mentally ill people should have gund capable of firing off 60 rounds or more in two minutes.

 

There should be mandatory backround checks for every sale, including gun shows.

There should be a national database of people who have lost their right to have guns for criminal behavior or mental illness.

There should be a limit on the number of guns that can be purchased by a non-licensed dealer.

There should be a limit on wepons that can be converted to full automatic fire and on large capacity magazines.

There should be strict liability for straw purchasers who buy guns for those who cannot pass a backround check.

[TomServo92]

My brother and several friends own guns as did my dad. I don't have anything at all against law abiding gun owners. Growing up and living in Western PA it's pretty much impossible not to know gun owners. My problem with the gun lobby is that they stand against every form of regulation, even things designed to keep guns out of the hands of those who we can agree should not have them. All rights have limits . Certainly no one thinks that mentally ill people should have gund capable of firing off 60 rounds or more in two minutes.

 

There should be mandatory backround checks for every sale, including gun shows.

There should be a national database of people who have lost their right to have guns for criminal behavior or mental illness.

There should be a limit on the number of guns that can be purchased by a non-licensed dealer.

There should be a limit on wepons that can be converted to full automatic fire and on large capacity magazines.

There should be strict liability for straw purchasers who buy guns for those who cannot pass a backround check.

 

I take no issue with what you've listed.

[rn4]

I take no issue with what you've listed.

 

But the NRA would fight tooth and nails on any of Marks proposals.

[cal50]

There should be mandatory backround checks for every sale, including gun shows.

The Colorado shooter passed the NICS check as did the Ft,Hood shooter. It did not prevent the misuse. Gunshow sales is another non-problem.

 

There should be a national database of people who have lost their right to have guns for criminal behavior or mental illness.

Agree but good luck with privacy laws and confidentiality.

 

There should be a limit on the number of guns that can be purchased by a non-licensed dealer.

Another knee jerk reaction that serves no purpose.

 

There should be a limit on wepons that can be converted to full automatic fire and on large capacity magazines.

Its already illegal to convert any weapon to fully automatic fire. Magazine limits? Large cap mags are harder to conceal and jam more frequently. Its not the problem or the solution.

 

There should be strict liability for straw purchasers who buy guns for those who cannot pass a backround check.

There already is...unless your the BATFE or Bloomberg. In the case of the BATFE two federal agents were killed and many Mexicans yet no public outrage.

Go figure.

 

 

Other than a bunch of "feel good" knee jerk reaction lawmaking it does zero to impact the senseless massacre that took place.

 

 

You would not believe the paperwork to legally acquire Class 3 firearms......must strike fear in the gun hating crowd,

(Real assault or select fire weapons)

 

 

 

 

 

http://youtu.be/U3oCE-ilM18

Edited July 29, 2012 by cal50

[TomServo92]

But the NRA would fight tooth and nails on any of Marks proposals.

 

That's because there on those on the far end of the spectrum who want to ban guns outright. The NRA sees these actions steps toward that end. If the threat of all out ban was removed, they might be a bit more conciliatory.