mackinaw Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 A comment in today's Automotive News, from an article talking about Ford's future product plans. Last sentence, third paragraph. Focus: The Focus ST, a sporty hatchback, comes to dealerships in late August. The ST is powered by a 2.0-liter EcoBoost four-cylinder engine that cranks out 252 hp, generates 270 pounds-feet of torque and is teamed with a six-speed manual transmission. The 2013 Focus Electric will be Ford's first electric-only vehicle. Ford recently has been showing off a European-spec Focus powered by a 1.0-liter EcoBoost three-cylinder engine. Ford officials say the engine will be offered soon in North American small cars. The Focus could get it next year. Ford also is considering small diesels for the Focus. The Focus, which was redesigned for the 2011 model year, is scheduled for minor changes in 2015, possibly including a new front end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 the Real news is the confirmation that the focus will be the most fuel efficient c car in America with the eb10. the diesel could be a way to spread the costs of a federalized diesel transit connect. it is clear that ford is willing to put less powerful engines is fleet vehicles because economy is a higher priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 the diesel could be a way to spread the costs of a federalized diesel transit connect. it is clear that ford is willing to put less powerful engines is fleet vehicles because economy is a higher priority. But at what cost? Just comparing the Diesel Golf vs the Gas Golf (both autos) is only saving $450 bucks a year at 20K miles a year. The Diesel Golf costs nearly $4000 more its equvent gas counterpart...thus would take 10 years to pay back at $4 a gallon for Diesel. Even say you could get a "fleet" special model that only costs $2K over a normal gas Transit Connect, it still would take 5 years to pay back the costs. I'm sure there is more to it then that, but it seems like the trend is to move away from Diesel because its high costs and go to CNG or LPG if you can, because its half the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 The Diesel Golf costs nearly $4000 more its equvent gas counterpart...thus would take 10 years to pay back at $4 a gallon for Diesel. No. The 'equivalent gas counterpart' to the Golf TDI in the U.S. market is the GTI, not the 2.5L 5-cylinder model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 No. The 'equivalent gas counterpart' to the Golf TDI in the U.S. market is the GTI, not the 2.5L 5-cylinder model. Still doesn't take away from the fact that no matter what a Diesel engine is going to cost more then a gas engine.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Still doesn't take away from the fact that no matter what a Diesel engine is going to cost more then a gas engine.... And as always, be it a car or a pick up, unless you run big time mileage, a diesel will not pay out-unless you have a real need for power. And real world, when you look at a PV, given today's gas engine numbers, I doubt a diesel would ever justify the premium based on current respective gas vs diesel mpg and first cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Still doesn't take away from the fact that no matter what a Diesel engine is going to cost more then a gas engine.... ...And Ford would be smart to build vehicles for those who are willing to pay for more power and better fuel economy. Check out the other manufacturers that have been offering clean diesels in passenger cars since 2007 in the USA, they're all expanding their offerings. TDI makes up 21% of VW's sales in the USA, the Jetta Sportwagen has a 90% take rate for diesel. Are there any manufacturers that have sold a ULSD (post-2007) car in North America and then cancelled it? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goinbroke2 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 The diesel haters will continue to be diesel haters.... No you don't need to be travelling 200,000km's a year or towing #40,000 to appreciate a diesel. This "mine is bigger than yours" took off with pick ups so now you have more hp than tractor trailers did a few years ago. Is it REQUIRED? NO! Funny how europeans (I know, who cares) can drive a little shitbox with a diesel and get great milage on autobahn's with no speed limit and yet somehow we think in North America unless you can pull 40,000lb's at 100mph all day, up and down hill...it's a failure...even though there are speed limits here... Talk to somebody who drives a diesel vw and they will tell you, no they're not hp monsters, but who cares, I drive it to work in the morning at 100kph. It works fine for me. (WHAT??? YOU DON'T NEED 400+HP TO DRIVE TO WORK??? SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!) Talk to people who have converted a vehicle to a diesel, great milage and it "has enough power for what they need". In other words, if Ford see's PROFIT and a MARKET, they will build them. And diesel haters won't buy them no matter how good they are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Are there any manufacturers that have sold a ULSD (post-2007) car in North America and then cancelled it? With the introduction of the F30 model, BMW currently does not offer a diesel powered 3 Series in the USA. Its predecessor, the E90, was available with a six cylinder diesel engine as the 335d. However, it's safe to say that BMW did not truly "cancel" it; earlier this year, the company confirmed a new four cylinder diesel for the U.S. market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 The diesel haters will continue to be diesel haters.... I don't hate diesel per say, but I'm also not going to be fanboy either of them...for the most part, because of the upfront outlay of they cost extra, is it really worth spending the $$$ on it, unless you do some SERIOUS driving? I don't see spending an extra $2K or more on a car just to get "slightly" better MPG's (once you hit a certain MPG, your not saving as much $$$ as you do going from a 15 MPG to 25 MPG vs 25 to 45 MPG vehicle)..and that goes for Hybrids also. But then again, most vehicle purchases are done illogically or irrational reasons, so thats what I get for being "rational" on something that is don'e irrationally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 The diesel haters will continue to be diesel haters.... Jetta diesel FE is comparable to Focus FE, and the Focus takes cheaper fuel and performs like a gas, as opposed to a diesel powered vehicle. Tough to see how Ford is missing the boat here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 ...performs like a gas, as opposed to a diesel powered vehicle. Some folks prefer a diesel powered vehicle for that very reason; in the case of passenger cars, particularly smaller ones, low-end torque is perhaps the most salient performance advantage of a turbodiesel over a similar gasoline engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 There were people that bought the Edsel, but that didn't make it a paying proposition for Ford. Yes, there are a collection of diesel fans out there, and they are well serviced by VW. Why Ford should spend a fortune trying to dislodge them from VW escapes me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Like any good manufacturer, Ford is watching the competition. VW seems to be doing well with diesels and Chevy will soon offer a diesel option in the Cruz. Who knows if Ford will actually offer a diesel in the Focus, but I'm glad it's at least being considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I'll believe that Chevy Cruze diesel when I see it. This isn't the first time GM's promised a diesel Chevy passenger car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 There were people that bought the Edsel, but that didn't make it a paying proposition for Ford. Yes, there are a collection of diesel fans out there, and they are well serviced by VW. Why Ford should spend a fortune trying to dislodge them from VW escapes me. I really dont know if it would cost a fortune...they have the engines, all they need to do is get them ok'ed for here, much like what is happening with the upcoming full size Transit...must admit, i drove a manual diesel Tarnsit connect that was here, it was pretty awesome...if they could keep the costs to around a 2k upcharge it would be interesting to garner the take rate.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Where are they going to get the engines from? How are they going to convince diesel fans who have been buying VWs for the past 30 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I'm inclined to pay attention to what AN reports, but this sounds like Captain Obvious reporting for duty. I'm sure Ford is considering lots of things that will never make it into US production; after all, you have to consider an idea before you can dismiss it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Where are they going to get the engines from? How are they going to convince diesel fans who have been buying VWs for the past 30 years? from what I know, Fords eco-tech engines have been going strong for a lifetime...and I dont see an issue of swaying VW owners...after all VW only has one engine size no?.....little 1.6 diesel could be put in the Fiesta, Focus, transit Connect, Escape....Im probably over simplifying things, but if a Diesel came in similarly priced to a hybrid I beleive you have bases covered....probably never happen but I bet its something that HAS bee, or IS being weighed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I'm inclined to pay attention to what AN reports, but this sounds like Captain Obvious reporting for duty. I'm sure Ford is considering lots of things that will never make it into US production; after all, you have to consider an idea before you can dismiss it... Exactly. I'm sure Ford considers diesels for North America at least once a year, maybe more often. Just like they consider whether they should bring other vehicles and drivetrains to the U.S. Somebody at Ford knows exactly how much it would cost for a Diesel Focus and how many they could realistically sell and at what price. Diesel fans don't buy VWs and Audis. Audi and VW fans buy diesels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I dont see an issue of swaying VW owners...after all VW only has one engine size no? Why? These are people that, unlike Camry fans, bought VWs despite their horrible reliability, not because of it. If someone is willing to buy a gremlin filled super turd like the outgoing VW Jetta, how are you going to convince them to buy a Ford instead of a decidedly better, but still subpar current Jetta? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Exactly. I'm sure Ford considers diesels for North America at least once a year, maybe more often. Just like they consider whether they should bring other vehicles and drivetrains to the U.S. Somebody at Ford knows exactly how much it would cost for a Diesel Focus and how many they could realistically sell and at what price. I know there is a powerpoint from Ford talking about its MPG increases and they speak about Diesels coming in the next 10-15 years if the market demands it in the USA. Anyways, with all this talk about Diesels etc...isn't there some major issues with them with Emissions anyways? I thought that EU was starting to move away from them because they where a MAJOR PIA to meet EU specs for clean air that go into effect in the next few years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Why? These are people that, unlike Camry fans, bought VWs despite their horrible reliability, not because of it. If someone is willing to buy a gremlin filled super turd like the outgoing VW Jetta, how are you going to convince them to buy a Ford instead of a decidedly better, but still subpar current Jetta? what makes you think the Jetta is decidedly better?..............and dare i say it, a majority of VW owners are unawre of VW's dependability, seems all that drives them down here are young females....thanks Daddy..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) Its on the table and can meet all US emission std. it is like the Wagon it can be brought here - from what I was told when the Grand C-Max was being considerate for the US so was the Wagon Focus, once the Grand C-Max got canned and replaced by the Regular C-Max the Wagon was also canceled as there was more overlap in product. I don't see a 1.0L Ecoboost Focus for sale in the U.S. - the 1L will only be offered in the Fiesta. It is under powered for U.S. Consumers, 0-62 in 11.3 seconds. Edited August 20, 2012 by jasonj80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 what makes you think the Jetta is decidedly better? This Jetta? It's bigger and a bit more reliable than the outgoing model, hence, 'better'. And if you think you can convince young girls to change their opinion about what's cool.................................................................. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.