silvrsvt Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 MKZ, MKX, and MKC will be the three volume lines. Followed by a new MKS and a refreshed Navigator. New Ecoboost engines will be powering the next Gen Lincolns. So don't hold our breath for a Lincoln Explorer anytime soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 So don't hold our breath for a Lincoln Explorer anytime soon? Conundrum, Aviator now as a D3 or wait for a big CD4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 So don't hold our breath for a Lincoln Explorer anytime soon? I would say that is way in the distance since the MKT is the big CUV as of now and was just refreshed. Major reason why Lincoln is in trouble IMO. Large CUV should be big selling segment for Lincoln as the MKT is radically different from Flex, and a newer entry that just didn't sell, even with livery added in. The MKS has been a sales disappointment too no matter what the cheerleaders say. What's worse is it has no sales traction and sales get worse, even after refresh and CCD suspension added with more powerful standard motor. The MKS is competitive in most ways now, and still very few buy it. So that is certainly a segment of concern for LIncoln, and how to get new customers to gravitate to Lincoln in this segment when new model debuts in a few years. The present MKZ sells well, and is Lincoln's best seller by far, so a new one has a nice base to work from. So MKZ is the long bright spot, MKX a minor bright spot, and LIncoln is in desperate need of a competitive MKEscape where even more sales are potentially there than MKZ if done right. The rest of lineup is a challenging work in progress with no help coming soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Major reason why Lincoln is in trouble IMO. LIncoln is in desperate need of a competitive MKEscape Why? Why is Lincoln in trouble and desperate? Is Ford about to go out of business? I don't understand the desperation here. Ford has several years to get Lincoln right. There's no big rush or deadline. The MKS has been a sales disappointment too no matter what the cheerleaders say. Go find ONE post from a "cheerleader" who says that MKS sales are great. NOBODY thinks they're great. EVERYBODY thinks they're disappointing including Ford. But there is a big difference between disappointing and "OMG they need to kill it". Maybe that's exactly why they're working on a new one. Until the new one gets here there's nothing they can really do. If all they wanted to do was pump up the sales volume then they could do that just by putting cash on the hood. But what would be the point? All that would do is lower profit margins and get people used to Lincolns having big incentives and that's not healthy long term. Ford would be desperate if they didn't have a plan for Lincoln that was already underway or if they had already implemented the plan and it wasn't working. But they do have a plan and it hasn't been executed yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Interesting to note that Farley says Lincoln will concentrate on the small CUV and mid sized sedan market and forget about the large sedan market for now at least. He says the large sedan market has never come back much from recession levels. So it looks like that $1 billion will be very focused in narrow segment range. Click here: Ford on quest to revive Lincoln | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Why? Why is Lincoln in trouble and desperate? Is Ford about to go out of business? I don't understand the desperation here. Ford has several years to get Lincoln right. There's no big rush or deadline. Go find ONE post from a "cheerleader" who says that MKS sales are great. NOBODY thinks they're great. EVERYBODY thinks they're disappointing including Ford. But there is a big difference between disappointing and "OMG they need to kill it". Maybe that's exactly why they're working on a new one. Until the new one gets here there's nothing they can really do. If all they wanted to do was pump up the sales volume then they could do that just by putting cash on the hood. But what would be the point? All that would do is lower profit margins and get people used to Lincolns having big incentives and that's not healthy long term. Ford would be desperate if they didn't have a plan for Lincoln that was already underway or if they had already implemented the plan and it wasn't working. But they do have a plan and it hasn't been executed yet. Putting your traditional high volume Lincoln brand into 5,000 sales/month territory is just about anyone's definiton of trouble. Lincoln is not Ferrari where there is exclusivity in very rarely seeing the vehicle on the street, and only in summer. Taking a brand from about 190,000 sales/year to under 70,000 is not a sign of success no matter how you spin it. And again, Lincoln is not Ferrari and doesn't make huge profit on each unit sold. Linocln is not even a second tier luxury brand. They are down near Porsche sales, a brand that is more about expensive, high margin sports cars than hiigh volume luxury, boulevard cruisers. Hopefully LIncoln will be a decent second tier luxury brand someday, but that is not the present reality. And Lincoln will have to think about more incentives to move MKS and MKT off the lots as their sales are not improving with MCE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Interesting to note that Farley says Lincoln will concentrate on the small CUV and mid sized sedan market and forget about the large sedan market for now at least. He says the large sedan market has never come back much from recession levels. So it looks like that $1 billion will be very focused in narrow segment range. Click here: Ford on quest to revive Lincoln | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com Actually it was McCormick who said they were eschewing large sedans. Farley said they weren't going to build a big box with a cappuccino machine. I don't translate that to mean we won't get a new MKS just that it won't be a big floaty luxo-barge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Putting your traditional high volume Lincoln brand into 5,000 sales/month territory is just about anyone's definiton of trouble. Lincoln is not Ferrari where there is exclusivity in very rarely seeing the vehicle on the street, and only in summer. Taking a brand from about 190,000 sales/year to under 70,000 is not a sign of success no matter how you spin it. And again, Lincoln is not Ferrari and doesn't make huge profit on each unit sold. Linocln is not even a second tier luxury brand. They are down near Porsche sales, a brand that is more about expensive, high margin sports cars than hiigh volume luxury, boulevard cruisers. Hopefully LIncoln will be a decent second tier luxury brand someday, but that is not the present reality. And Lincoln will have to think about more incentives to move MKS and MKT off the lots as their sales are not improving with MCE. I am assuming that Lincoln is not making any profit right now. None whatsoever. So now I ask again - why does that make them desperate? What should they be doing differently than what they're already doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Interesting to note that Farley says Lincoln will concentrate on the small CUV and mid sized sedan market and forget about the large sedan market for now at least. He says the large sedan market has never come back much from recession levels. So it looks like that $1 billion will be very focused in narrow segment range. Why spend money in a shrinking market? There will be a new Large sedan...down the road. the mid size and small CUV markets are where the growth is going to be. Heck a loaded up MKZ can cost more then certain MKS models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Why spend money in a shrinking market? There will be a new Large sedan...down the road. the mid size and small CUV markets are where the growth is going to be. Heck a loaded up MKZ can cost more then certain MKS models. Lincoln only has about $1 billion to spend. So yeah they will have to be very focused with that limited investment and that means not replacing the MKT with MKExplorer anytime soon. That will probably come with second tranche of investment money after Lincoln sales go from desperate to mediocre second tier territory. In other words, become a relevant luxury brand again. I would say that the mother company is giving their troubled brand a little budget for now to see what they can do with it before giving them anymore significant investment. Rightfully so, Ford is not going to put itself at risk for a luxury arm that is so irrelevant right now to the public or the company from revenue or profit stand point. You could even argue that Hermosillo would be better off producing Fusions only and not dinking around building MKZ's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) , Lincoln is not Ferrari and doesn't make huge profit on each unit sold. Citation required. National Dealer inventory of: MKT - the majority of units are priced between $50,000 and $60,000 MKS - the majority of units are priced $50,000 and $75,000 Navigator - the majority of units are priced $60,000 and $70,000 Last month, Ford moved over 20,000 D3 models, so MKT and MKS are frosting on the cake. Edited November 8, 2012 by jpd80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Lincoln only has about $1 billion to spend. Only up to 2015 models, current refreshes and three new models ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havelock Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 So don't hold our breath for a Lincoln Explorer anytime soon? Based on articles from last month about the new design studio, the small cuv wasn't the only new model undercover that will be unveiled in the next few months. I don't believe any article mentioned size or type of vehicle of this second model so it could be anything including an aviator. Ford had no problem replacing the taurus x with flex and introducing the current explorer just a couple years later so I don't think the updated mkt will prevent lincoln from introducing the aviator in the next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Ford has several years to get Lincoln right. There's no big rush or deadline. As organizational behavior expert John Kotter has detailed, the rise of complacency is often associated with organizations bereft of a sense of urgency. This explains in large part the Lincoln brand's trajectory to its current state of complete irrelevance. Ford Motor Company has demonstrated that it can inculcate a sense of urgency in other aspects of the organization and more importantly, act upon it and produce meaningful results. The most effective means of accomplishing this with the Lincoln brand would be to kill it (and quick), but the dilly dally continues and we are all left wondering what's really coming next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 As organizational behavior expert John Kotter has detailed, the rise of complacency is often associated with organizations bereft of a sense of urgency. This explains in large part the Lincoln brand's trajectory to its current state of complete irrelevance. Ford Motor Company has demonstrated that it can inculcate a sense of urgency in other aspects of the organization and more importantly, act upon it and produce meaningful results. The most effective means of accomplishing this with the Lincoln brand would be to kill it (and quick), but the dilly dally continues and we are all left wondering what's really coming next. Yes, either having a luxury brand is very important or it isn't. The luxury market is far too competitive to just put your toe in and hope something wonderful happens. "Dilly Dally" would be best way to describe Lincoln efforts so far. So far it's putting one finger (MKZ) into hole in dike as other holes (MKS, MKT) get bigger. Top tier and top second tier makers are strong throughout their lineup. One new or completely refreshed model/year is not enough IMO to make Lincoln relevant again. The very mild refreshes of MKS and MKT show that does not get it done in this market. So next year Lincoln gets another new model in MKEscape which helps, but again very stop gap. Every successful brand needs new models every year to survive and prosper. Unfortunatley, Lincoln needs more than even the average, struggling brand. They need major help and fast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 The most effective means of accomplishing this with the Lincoln brand would be to kill it (and quick), but the dilly dally continues and we are all left wondering what's really coming next. You don't know what's happening within the new Lincoln team. My guess is they do have a sense of urgency and they're being pushed to get things done as quickly as possible. However, there is a big difference between doing *something* really fast and doing the right thing as quickly as possible. You can't start with a brand new team and put out a brand new from the ground up solid vehicle in less than 18-24 months. First you have to define what you want to accomplish and develop a plan to do that which in this case includes not only the vehicles but customer service and dealership changes. Then you have to get funding for that plan. Then you have to put together the resources to make it happen. Saying they're dilly-dallying and have no sense of urgency just because they aren't putting out new vehicles left and right is silly. If you're building a retaining wall you can clear out a spot and start laying blocks in just a few minutes. It might even look good when you're finished but the first freeze or rain and it starts to fail because it doesn't have a good foundation. You need to spend most of your time digging out the topsoil and putting in a stable base material that's perfectly level. Then whatever you build will stand up long term. You can't do it fast, cheap and right. Ford is doing it right on a budget and that will not be fast but it stands a better chance of long term success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 As organizational behavior expert John Kotter has detailed, the rise of complacency is often associated with organizations bereft of a sense of urgency. This explains in large part the Lincoln brand's trajectory to its current state of complete irrelevance. Ford Motor Company has demonstrated that it can inculcate a sense of urgency in other aspects of the organization and more importantly, act upon it and produce meaningful results. The most effective means of accomplishing this with the Lincoln brand would be to kill it (and quick), but the dilly dally continues and we are all left wondering what's really coming next. Seriously dude....guess you didn't see Ford's sense of urgency back in 2006 or so? Lincoln isn't vitally important for Ford Motor Company to keep it in business, thus the focus on Ford itself and not Lincoln. Why kill Lincoln off just to bring it back under a new name and spend Billions on establishing a new brand, when you can take your "time" to a point and re-establish a brand people know about? Hell Lincoln hasn't even launched a new product yet under its new management and people are already bellyaching that they aren't doing it fast enough. I'd rather see Ford do it slow and right, then spend billions upon billions like Caddy did with the Catera/CTS...which who knows if its even pulling a profit?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 They need major help and fast. Why do they need help fast? What happens if they only make some incremental sales increases with the 2 new vehicles over the next 2 years? So what? What happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Yes, either having a luxury brand is very important or it isn't. The luxury market is far too competitive to just put your toe in and hope something wonderful happens. "Dilly Dally" would be best way to describe Lincoln efforts so far. So far it's putting one finger (MKZ) into hole in dike as other holes (MKS, MKT) get bigger. Top tier and top second tier makers are strong throughout their lineup. One new or completely refreshed model/year is not enough IMO to make Lincoln relevant again. The very mild refreshes of MKS and MKT show that does not get it done in this market. So next year Lincoln gets another new model in MKEscape which helps, but again very stop gap. Every successful brand needs new models every year to survive and prosper. Unfortunatley, Lincoln needs more than even the average, struggling brand. They need major help and fast. What you are expecting is impossible, for ANY company. You simply cannot replace your entire lineup at once. It will never happen. No automaker the size of Lincoln has done it. No automaker the size of Lincoln ever will. You replace models when they it makes the most fiscal sense to do so and when capital is available to do it. MKZ was due. MKS and MKT were not. Simple as that. And how the hell is the MKEscape "stop gap"?? It'll probably be their most successful (and will certainly be their most unique) vehicle in the past decade or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Yes, either having a luxury brand is very important or it isn't. The luxury market is far too competitive to just put your toe in and hope something wonderful happens. "Dilly Dally" would be best way to describe Lincoln efforts so far. So far it's putting one finger (MKZ) into hole in dike as other holes (MKS, MKT) get bigger. Top tier and top second tier makers are strong throughout their lineup. One new or completely refreshed model/year is not enough IMO to make Lincoln relevant again. The very mild refreshes of MKS and MKT show that does not get it done in this market. So next year Lincoln gets another new model in MKEscape which helps, but again very stop gap. Every successful brand needs new models every year to survive and prosper. Unfortunatley, Lincoln needs more than even the average, struggling brand. They need major help and fast. Apparently, you missed the story where the money tree at Lincoln headquarters never started growing money on the branches... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Rome wasn't built in a day. Topic closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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