silvrsvt Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 Yes they could have, Mazda 3 does it with 2.0 Skyactiv and auto trans. I thought they had a DCT with a torque converter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 They are not confused by it, they are irritated by it. They do not like it. That is why Ford is getting rid of it. If it were not significantly more expensive to manufacturer than a conventional manual, I could see them offering it instead of a conventional manual as a base transmission. But I doubt it would see enough volume as an extra cost option to justify its use in any entry level product. I do agree that Ford could go with a premium off-the-shelf wet clutch for an upscale Mustang, or other performance vehicle. But not the Focus/Fiesta. Have you ever driven the DCT Focus or Fiesta before? The issue I see is that Ford had sold roughly 400,000 DCT in the US and Canada, and I have yet to hear from a reputable source that having the DCT has hurt sales. Why doesn't Ford get rid of MFT too since people are "irritated by it" too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) Have you ever driven the DCT Focus or Fiesta before? I have...and its VERY disconcerting for someone who has never driven a manual or hasn't driven one in ages to have the car roll on you when its in gear. My GF drove a Focus TI at the Focus ST even and the car started to roll on her because she wasn't used to it...thats BIG issue for vast majority of people who are used to driving automatic transmissions. Edited March 3, 2013 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I have...and its VERY disconcerting for someone who has never driven a manual or hasn't driven one in ages to have the car roll on you when its in gear. My GF drove a Focus TI at the Focus ST even and the car started to roll on her because she wasn't used to it...thats BIG issue for vast majority of people who are used to driving automatic transmissions. The big issue for me was it wasn't readily discussed during the test drive. The Fiesta has 112 lb/ft and it doesn't kick in and lurch like the Focus 146 lb/ft. The video explained it all but the sales guy could have done a little better explaining the difference. For folks who don't drive manual, it could be a deal-breaker but I personnally don't think it's that big of a deal. It doesn't take much to get used to it. In fact, I had to get used to a conventional auto. I think Very and Big is a bit of a overstatement however, to each... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I have...and its VERY disconcerting for someone who has never driven a manual or hasn't driven one in ages to have the car roll on you when its in gear. My GF drove a Focus TI at the Focus ST even and the car started to roll on her because she wasn't used to it...thats BIG issue for vast majority of people who are used to driving automatic transmissions. I guess I really don't understand what you're saying. Any car will roll when it's in gear. If I don't keep my foot on the brake of my E4OD auto trans F-150 while at stop, it rolls forward. Ditto for my DCT '012 Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I thought they had a DCT with a torque converter? Does this look like a DCT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) I have...and its VERY disconcerting for someone who has never driven a manual or hasn't driven one in ages to have the car roll on you when its in gear. My GF drove a Focus TI at the Focus ST even and the car started to roll on her because she wasn't used to it...thats BIG issue for vast majority of people who are used to driving automatic transmissions. the issue with roll back was resolved AFAIK with a TSB and firmware update 10 months ago. My concern is that these nagging issues have been resolved for the most part, but becuase of the Early PR and issues they will abandon a cheap, light and efficient transmission. Edited March 3, 2013 by Biker16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 20,000 sals last month says there isn't a glaring significant outrage to a DCT transmission being used over a conventional auto trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transitman Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 the issue with roll back was resolved AFAIK with a TSB and firmware update 10 months ago. My early production '12 Focus didn't have roll back issues. I've read, especially on the Fanatics Forum, that some were not holding on inclines, but I wonder if most of the roll back complaints are from people who aren't aware that the brake pedal needs to be depressed right before it's released to hold the car for up to 3 seconds. 20,000 sals last month says there isn't a glaring significant outrage to a DCT transmission being used over a conventional auto trans. How many of those 20,000 know the difference between a traditional auto and a DCT? Once again, the majority of buyers go for looks and mpg's, not the specifics of the drive train. Heck, most probably don't know the size of the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 How many of those 20,000 know the difference between a traditional auto and a DCT? Once again, the majority of buyers go for looks and mpg's, not the specifics of the drive train. Heck, most probably don't know the size of the engine. Exactly my point, provided the transmission performs as expected by the buyer, all will be well. And once people understand a bit more what the difference, it seems to make more sense to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 the issue with roll back was resolved AFAIK with a TSB and firmware update 10 months ago. The test drive was back July of last year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoser768 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 The 500 was just a bad set up, a weak engine behind a cvt in a heavy car, making it scream all the time under moderate/hard accel. Although the 500 was a good attempt, it should have started with the 3.5 to begin with. However, the CVT, unless its behind a more than adequate powerful engine, will not be as embraced. My Mariner Hybrid screams getting on the interstate or trying to pass. Also, don't exceed 70mph, it makes me tired to hear all that noise. Yes, it gets loud under WOT, But I still really like my CVT. Rolling thorugh town without having to shift umteen times and taking hills knowing it is going to pick the right ratio and not feeling the gears and torque converter lockup trying to make up their mind is nice. With the AWD when it's slick it's nice not having a shift kick you loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I would be willing to be that privately Ford is wishing now they would have took a different route. Its too late now to make a change until the next gen comes out. Technology has run into a brick wall with gas mileage and they are now taking unconventional approaches to solving the problem. Thats fine but if you cant make a car drive and shift right without a bunch of noises then keep it. It continues to amaze me how in this day and age they cant get the calibrations right the first time or two. As one Getrag engineer was overhead saying Ford is trying to do something that cant be done from an engineering standpoint. Raise the price 50 bucks, take a mpg away and add 50 lbs to the car but make it shift and drive like it should. There is too much pressure to get that last 1/10 of a mpg at the expense of drive ability. When will Ford learn their lessons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 the issue with roll back was resolved AFAIK with a TSB and firmware update 10 months ago. The fix was to engage and actively roll forward, to simulate idle-creep on an automatic. But I felt the fake creep was too fast - it 'creeped' me out. If I turn a nob to set the creep speed, I would love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I guess I really don't understand what you're saying. Any car will roll when it's in gear. If I don't keep my foot on the brake of my E4OD auto trans F-150 while at stop, it rolls forward. Ditto for my DCT '012 Focus. The roll, in this situation is roll BACK, which is definitely not something you'd expect when you lift your foot off the brake with an auto. I know that in traffic, or in line to park, etc, I use the transmission's creep to move forward. If the car rolled back after coming off the brake, I'd be a little surprised by that until I adapted. But as others have noted, they reprogrammed the software to introduce "fake" creep, so it shouldn't be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I wouldn't be surprised if the DCT is phased out in the NA market. Ford did not include it as an option in the Escape. I would further suggest that proper market research would've kept this transmission from ever being offered here. You know One Ford dictates whatever sells in Europe also sells in the U.S. That's why the F-Series is so popular in Europe and B-cars sell so well here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 You know One Ford dictates whatever sells in Europe also sells in the U.S. That's not what it means at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 The roll, in this situation is roll BACK, which is definitely not something you'd expect when you lift your foot off the brake with an auto. I know that in traffic, or in line to park, etc, I use the transmission's creep to move forward. If the car rolled back after coming off the brake, I'd be a little surprised by that until I adapted. But as others have noted, they reprogrammed the software to introduce "fake" creep, so it shouldn't be an issue. Gotcha. I can tell you that there's no roll-back with my Focus (had the software update last summer). You take your foot off the brake, and the car creeps forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I can tell you that there's no roll-back with my Focus (had the software update last summer). You take your foot off the brake, and the car creeps forward. The issue we had was the car rolled forward... I don't recall what exactly happened since I was in the passenger seat, but my GF tried starting the car with the push button start, and it didn't want to start (would power up but not turn over) and we rolled a little bit forward almost wacking the generator that was in-front of the car (we where in a parking lot in the middle of FedEx Field, which is pretty flat!)...I'm not sure if she had it in gear or not, but I'd assume that the car would have to be in park to start like an automatic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 The issue we had was the car rolled forward... I don't recall what exactly happened since I was in the passenger seat, but my GF tried starting the car with the push button start, and it didn't want to start (would power up but not turn over) and we rolled a little bit forward almost wacking the generator that was in-front of the car (we where in a parking lot in the middle of FedEx Field, which is pretty flat!)...I'm not sure if she had it in gear or not, but I'd assume that the car would have to be in park to start like an automatic? I never tried to start my Focus in gear, only while in park or neutral. Plus natural habit for me to keep my foot on the brake while starting. No explanation as to what happened to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Gotcha. I can tell you that there's no roll-back with my Focus (had the software update last summer). You take your foot off the brake, and the car creeps forward. exactly you notice all this "fog" around what The Transmission is really doing, from people with different experiences with the Transmission, people who drive it everyday seems to like or be indifferent to it. Of course there are people who hate it. Will it ever be 100% as smooth as a good automatic transmission? No Can it meet the needs and wants of 97% of global drivers? Yes, while delivering better fuel economy as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 The issue we had was the car rolled forward... I don't recall what exactly happened since I was in the passenger seat, but my GF tried starting the car with the push button start, and it didn't want to start (would power up but not turn over) and we rolled a little bit forward almost wacking the generator that was in-front of the car (we where in a parking lot in the middle of FedEx Field, which is pretty flat!)...I'm not sure if she had it in gear or not, but I'd assume that the car would have to be in park to start like an automatic? Sounds like another Wicked problem, If the car was in park, the parking paws would have been enabled, but if it were in D or in between gears it should not have Started. so the issue may or may not have been the DCT but a number of other issues: was you GF's foot on the brake? (user error, Push button Start Issue) Was the car in D or in park? (user Error, push button start isue) Did the Car allow you to start in D (Software issue) Was the transmission caught in between neutral and 1st gear? ( Transmission Software issue) This is Is not common and is the first time I have heard of it, BTW was the Focus you drove made in the EU? If it was they don't require brake shift interlock AFAIK I.E. you can start the car without pressing the brake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transitman Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 That's not what it means at all. I heard it means everyone has to buy One Ford? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 BTW was the Focus you drove made in the EU? If it was they don't require brake shift interlock AFAIK I.E. you can start the car without pressing the brake. Why would it be? It was a standard Focus HB Ti model....in July of 2012...no need for a EU car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97svtgoin05gt Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I drive a '12 every single day and have put 18k on it in less than a year. The single biggest annoyance for me is the disconnected feel I get when I'm at 1/2 throttle trying to pass someone on the highway. Its like the engine revs up but the car doesn't make much additional forward motion. Almost like its disconnected from the flywheel. I don't get that real positive downshift feel unless you really nail it. I do have the latest SW update and that did improve drivability and eliminate the rollback issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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