fordmantpw Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I am thinking the 450 and 550 will stay with the current steel cab, and they are built at KTP. At least for now. FWIW, I have heard absolutely nothing about the next generation 650/750, and I doubt anything is seriously under development at present. I think the medium duty truck program is a 'wait and see'. If successful, sure a successor will be developed. But that remains to be seen...... Why would they continue to build the 450 and 550 at KTP and not use the same Al cab as the 250 & 350? You will already be stamping the Al panels, why have separate presses and everything just so you can save a few bucks on panels for the 450 & 550? Not to mention the different assembly process for those trucks coming down the same line. That just doesn't make sense. I'm with RJ....everything at KTP will be aloominium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Guys, Remember when I posted this-pg. 30: Just read a USA Today online piece about KTP converting to..." aluminum cab F-250, 350 in next year...". Now assuming the omission of ..450, 550 not just a journalistic error, does that mean 450, 550 morphs onto steel cab 650-750 at Avon Lake? This would leave KTP with 250, 350, Expedition and Navigator, and the 450,550 volume would be a nice fit I would imagine to balance workload at Avon Lake. Also might mean entirely new medium cab based on some Transit components as we have kicked around from time to time (Doors, ""glass house" etc). Then, pg 31 "Econolineman" Ford employee posts about all the work going on at KTP. Well I guess it is safe to say???- if all this work is going on at KTP to accomodate two lines, and if 650/750 will have a steel cab, and if the quote in USA Today was in fact accurate reporting regarding F-250 and 350 having aluminum cabs, and that is NOT a "juornalistic" error, think it is safe to say the current steel SD cab will continue to be used on 450-550-650-750? No flames please- I've had enough today on the Tonka issue from real truck guys! We seniors can only take so much 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) Perhaps others knew this already but this was an important "take away" from the announcement for me. Offered in Regular Cab, SuperCab and Crew Cab styles and in straight-frame, dock-height and an all-new dedicated tractor model for heavy towing applications, the 2016 F-650/F-750 features a bold look inside and out. Going after the beer and soda pop truck fleets ! Edited March 6, 2015 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 The dedicated tractor model would be awesome for those with ultra-heavy-super-mega fifth wheels that they full-time out of and tow all over the country. I've seen folks using old Volvo tractors or other such rigs for towing these monsters with. A new F650 crew cab with a custom bed would be perfect for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
econolineman Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Contract talks usually begin in the months leading up to September. If there's product movement it will begin to surface soon. I'm over at the Escape plant so I'm not in the building at KTP. I don't know what the plans are for them. Their chairman has said openly he intends to fight to make sure all super duty production stays there. So is there something in the works that would remove some product there? I have no idea. What I do know is after more than 2 decades inside Ford Motor factories and working under new agreements every few years, is every contract you speculate your plant is either gaining something or losing something. Folks in Ohio are hoping to gain product, KTP undoubtedly is going to fight to maintain product. Ford will use this as leverage in the coming contract, bet on that. Either way it goes, KTP is getting a huge amount of work done to prepare it for the aluminum super duty. Why they wouldn't include all of them (250-550) would have to come down to some business model numbers telling them not to I suppose. Estimated production numbers of F-450/550 chassis cabs is 40-60k per Ford. A big boost for Ohio, but a big loss for KTP so expect a battle. That's a lot of production. Not sure why the need to add a 3rd crew at KTP if you're planning to reduce production numbers on that scale, but I'm just an hourly guy that's not privy to all the behind closed doors talks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 ....Either way it goes, KTP is getting a huge amount of work done to prepare it for the aluminum super duty. Why they wouldn't include all of them (250-550) would have to come down to some business model numbers telling them not to I suppose. Estimated production numbers of F-450/550 chassis cabs is 40-60k per Ford. A big boost for Ohio, but a big loss for KTP so expect a battle. That's a lot of production. Not sure why the need to add a 3rd crew at KTP if you're planning to reduce production numbers on that scale, but I'm just an hourly guy that's not privy to all the behind closed doors talks. I see no reason why the cab production could not continue at KTP and just ship bare cabs up to OHAP for medium lines.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I see no reason why the cab production could not continue at KTP and just ship bare cabs up to OHAP for medium lines.... Cost to ship would probably be a good place to start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 with the earlier comments about aluminum cabs on SD 250-350, and no reference to 450, 550, I guess this confirms the steel cab will continue for use in 450, 550 Not gonna happen and makes no sense specially with Ford trying to lose weight with the current F-450. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 OHAP is a lot closer than Navistar Escobedo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 I think the tractor model could also haul fire dept. aerial tiller ladders. I saw two firsts recently, both were armored car applications. One was a Hino cowl-only -- I had never seen that before -- and the other was an F750 FULL cab -- not a cowl -- used by Gardia out of MA I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 OHAP is a lot closer than Navistar Escobedo. You beat me to it. Has to be a big logistics savings on that note unless Ford traffic people negotiated one hell of a deal for KTP to Escobedo rates. But in sny case, assuming these are knock down panels and not assembled cabs we are not talking about sa lot of trailer loads given current 650/750 numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I think the tractor model could also haul fire dept. aerial tiller ladders. I saw two firsts recently, both were armored car applications. One was a Hino cowl-only -- I had never seen that before -- and the other was an F750 FULL cab -- not a cowl -- used by Gardia out of MA I believe. I'm afraid you are dreaming about thre FD tractors Joe. What is market for aerial tillers a year? My guess is not much. And what does a big ladder cost-half a mil? You seem to have a good FD info base so check those numbers out. Seems like FD's are committed to a "bigger is better" mentality. and as a tax payer, I think that is BS but I see what goes on around me in small towns. The days of as commercial chassis on anything but a small "quick attack" or 4wd small brush truck seem to be over. I had one guy tell me when everyone had to be in a cab with their SCBA built into the seatback. that was the death blow to commercial cabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Cost to ship would probably be a good place to start Dearborn Stamping sends every major body panel to KCAP to assemble the F-150, and they will soon send some to KTP. Shipping cab stampings for assembly by rail won't be that expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
econolineman Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I think the comment regarding cost was in reference to shipping entire cabs fully assembled. That's how I read it anyway. That wouldn't happen. Parts for assembly however could be feasible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Dearborn Stamping sends every major body panel to KCAP to assemble the F-150, and they will soon send some to KTP. Shipping cab stampings for assembly by rail won't be that expensive. I believe he was talking of shipping fully assembled cabs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I think the comment regarding cost was in reference to shipping entire cabs fully assembled. That's how I read it anyway. That wouldn't happen. Parts for assembly however could be feasible. At that rate, you would be better off moving the entire assembly process. I can't think of a single way of feasibly shipping thousands of fully assembled cabs from Kentucky to Ohio without A. Costing a fortune and B. Being a logistic nightmare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Dearborn Stamping sends every major body panel to KCAP to assemble the F-150, and they will soon send some to KTP. Shipping cab stampings for assembly by rail won't be that expensive. Just out of curiosity, these are specific SD components that you guys do? Not 150 components that KTP is "playing" with?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Dearborn Stamping sends every major body panel to KCAP to assemble the F-150, and they will soon send some to KTP. Shipping cab stampings for assembly by rail won't be that expensive. F2/350 sharing body panels with F150? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Expy/Navi as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Expy/Navi as well. Ah yes, forgot about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Just out of curiosity, these are specific SD components that you guys do? Not 150 components that KTP is "playing" with?? If what I'm hearing is true, the next SD will at least share the cab structure with the 150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I think the comment regarding cost was in reference to shipping entire cabs fully assembled. That's how I read it anyway. That wouldn't happen. Parts for assembly however could be feasible. It was not that many years ago when E-series body were assembled and PAINTED down the road from OHAP and then shipped there to be "decked" with the frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 It was not that many years ago when E-series body were assembled and PAINTED down the road from OHAP and then shipped there to be "decked" with the frame. A far less daunting (and cheaper) of a task than going from Kentucky to Ohio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 A far less daunting (and cheaper) of a task than going from Kentucky to Ohio I belive all that work was done at the Lorain plant. That plant is closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
econolineman Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 It was not that many years ago when E-series body were assembled and PAINTED down the road from OHAP and then shipped there to be "decked" with the frame. Yes that is true. I started in Lorain. That was around a 20 mile trip requiring specially made trailers. I don't put anything past Ford, but I don't see this repeating itself. IMHO, If Ohio gets the F-450/550 chassis cab production I'm betting they'll do all the assembly there. But any of us on the factory floor knows it's never easy trying to figure what the company may or may not do Pioneer is correct. We left Lorain in December 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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