New Light & Medium Duty News

[Sevensecondsuv]

A bigger gas engine than the 6.2 would definitely be welcome in the pickups. I know a few guys who are hesitating to trade their 10 year old V10 pickups in on a new 6.2. One guy is considering a dealer-installed bed on a F-450 cab/chassis just to get the V10. On paper the 6.2 has the same tow rating, but in real life it needs to spin 4500 RPM to pull the same load the V10 will pull at 3500 rpm. The 6.2 is a nice engine but really needs to be stroked to around 7.0L to move the power down in the rpm band before it'll be truly suited for use in heavier trucks. Then again it's not like the competition offers anything better at the moment.

 

It will be interesting to see what Ford does with the segment in coming years as competition comes out with alternative gas engine options to counter Ford's V10. The new emissions regs are killing diesels in applications where a diesel isn't mandatory. I'm even seeing it in the pickups where just 5-6-7 years ago getting a diesel was a foregone conclusion. Between the def fluid and regen cycles and poor fuel economy compared to less-regulated diesels of yore, the gas engines are looking more and more appealing.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Sevensecondsuv

[Joe771476]

I'm getting a little worried. Usually the inside cover of School Bus magazine touts the Roush/Ford propane engine with a reliability of millions of miles. Not so in the latest issue. Also, the trucks used to scan vehicles coming into the Super Bowl were Ford mediums. I'll get a link and you can determine if they are new Ohio built with the new grilles, or Mexico Blue Diamonds. The only thumbnail that shows the front is a little unclear. VW might have bought into a losing venture. International class 8 sales tumbled last month while the segment grew 20 percent over last month. I think it's a little funny that VW, a cheater on diesel engines, has teamed up with International whose diesels failed EPA certifications!!!

[twintornados]

A bigger gas engine than the 6.2 would definitely be welcome in the pickups. ...

.

I have seen some Verizon bucket trucks on a RAM 4500 cab/chassis and the badge on the fender says "HEMI 6.4L"

[Bob Rosadini]

.

I have seen some Verizon bucket trucks on a RAM 4500 cab/chassis and the badge on the fender says "HEMI 6.4L"

Likewise- a lot of Verizon 4500 Hemi's running around this neck of the woods.

[Sevensecondsuv]

Well maybe the 6.4 hemi will be the motivation Ford needs to either stroke the 6.2 or tweak the heads and/or bore diameter on the V10. As it is the V10 already out-torques the hemi, it just needs a bit of a hp bump to hit the magic 400 number the hemis do.

 

It's obvious GM is not interested in providing any competition lol

Edited March 24, 2017 by Sevensecondsuv

[lfeg]

The way the emissions regs and CAFE (the soon to be reenacted mid term review only affects 2022 to 2025) are tightening over the next 4 years, I do not see a larger V8 coming from Ford. On V8s, even for class 5 and up, I expect only incremental changes. FCA is only keeping their V8s viable by buying credits, and that is going to get more expensive every year.

[Joe771476]

I read somewhere that FCA and VW are looking at an alliance of some sort. Right now Ford is the closest thing to being a full line producer, except for class 8. A VW(International) /FCA (Ram) alliance would create a full line producer, car AND truck wise! Like I said, the Ford guys are trying:because I also saw the DTE bucket truck ad in Concrete Construction magazine. Here's the photo gallery of the Super Bowl medium duty crew cabs with scanning body. Photo 1 seems to show the old grille, photo 5 I can't quite make out! You decide!

 

 

http://fleetowner.com/equipment/cbp-uses-trucks-secure-super-bowl#slide-0-field_images-210881

[Bob Rosadini]

I read somewhere that FCA and VW are looking at an alliance of some sort. Right now Ford is the closest thing to being a full line producer, except for class 8. A VW(International) /FCA (Ram) alliance would create a full line producer, car AND truck wise! Like I said, the Ford guys are trying:because I also saw the DTE bucket truck ad in Concrete Construction magazine. Here's the photo gallery of the Super Bowl medium duty crew cabs with scanning body. Photo 1 seems to show the old grille, photo 5 I can't quite make out! You decide!

 

 

http://fleetowner.com/equipment/cbp-uses-trucks-secure-super-bowl#slide-0-field_images-210881

Joe- I think that "alliance" is only in Sergio's dreams. As for those scanning trucks-one shot is clearly a Bluediamond product while the head on view is a new OAP truck.

 

Regarding the Concrete Construction mag ad I assume its the same bucket truck ad featured in all the mags of late. And as I've previously pointed out, the brilliant Ford marketers are wasting ad dollars crowing about "clear frame rails" on the mediums-like this hasn't been industry practice for a long time.

[hwyman3]

I read somewhere that FCA and VW are looking at an alliance of some sort. Right now Ford is the closest thing to being a full line producer, except for class 8. A VW(International) /FCA (Ram) alliance would create a full line producer, car AND truck wise! Like I said, the Ford guys are trying:because I also saw the DTE bucket truck ad in Concrete Construction magazine. Here's the photo gallery of the Super Bowl medium duty crew cabs with scanning body. Photo 1 seems to show the old grille, photo 5 I can't quite make out! You decide!

 

 

http://fleetowner.com/equipment/cbp-uses-trucks-secure-super-bowl#slide-0-field_images-210881

 

 

I actually think the GM/Navistar JV is going to be pretty close to being a complete class 1-8 solution. GM already has class 1-3, Navistar is already class 6-8 and isn't the first product from their joint venture a replacement for the TeraStar, which was Class 4-5?

[Bob Rosadini]

 

 

I actually think the GM/Navistar JV is going to be pretty close to being a complete class 1-8 solution. GM already has class 1-3, Navistar is already class 6-8 and isn't the first product from their joint venture a replacement for the TeraStar, which was Class 4-5?

Do believe that is correct in terms of GM is back in 4 and 5 as is Navistar. Ford could easily be the only one in 1-8 if they put another power train in the 750 and added a tandem. The frames are there, the cab while not ideal would suffice-assuming they can get a big enough radiator under that hood, and while it wouldn't be a road tractor at 80,000 lbs, it would be a legit vocational 10 wheeler IMO. Actually you can get a 750 now with a 37,000 lb plate that gets it out of FET exemption status and technically makes it a class 8.

 

then again, same deal as when GM was still building the 8500 in tandem versions. High GVW that made it a class 8 yet these trucks never showed up in the class 8 stats. Anyone have a clue??

[twintornados]

..... photo 5 I can't quite make out! You decide!

.

Oh yeah....#5 is definitely an OAP built truck. Grille and headlights are of the new design.

 

Edited March 25, 2017 by twintornados

[Joe771476]

1) I never thought I'd have the opportunity to drive an F650, but you never know! I had some furniture to move and was looking for an F or E450 type small box truck. It was raining and nearest place was Ace Hardware who uses UHaul. They only had a pickup, a Transit and yep, an F650! Having driven a Ford F450 Home Depot truck that had almost put my head through the roof many times one day on a relatively smooth highway, I wasn't looking forward to driving this! But guess what! It rode like a dream! The side of the truck touted "Gentle ride" feature, most likely an attempt to calm the fears of your average user. And yes I know the wheelbase is longer, but wow the ride was great! Oh yeah if I hit a few big bumps in the road, I got a little jolt, but otherwise it was great. I just saw a Penske F650 V10 with no such mention of any "gentle" suspension. 2)The BATT-APX armored tactical truck from the Armored Group uses an F550 Super Duty, and the Ford oval is right on the steering wheel! 3) According to Government Fleet mag, there are some new trends: A lot of municipalties and states are finally smartening up and trimming their 4 or 5 makes of Class 7 & 8 trucks to just one standard cab, engine, transmission, chassis. The City of Moline IL is approved to do warranty work on its Ford vehicles. 4) Colonial Manor (NJ) Fire Assoc. just purchased to new KME fire truck replacing a get this, 1989 Ford/Maxim C-series! The truck was in use for almost 30 years and they're still keeping it!

[Bob Rosadini]

1) I never thought I'd have the opportunity to drive an F650, but you never know! I had some furniture to move and was looking for an F or E450 type small box truck. It was raining and nearest place was Ace Hardware who uses UHaul. They only had a pickup, a Transit and yep, an F650! Having driven a Ford F450 Home Depot truck that had almost put my head through the roof many times one day on a relatively smooth highway, I wasn't looking forward to driving this! But guess what! It rode like a dream! The side of the truck touted "Gentle ride" feature, most likely an attempt to calm the fears of your average user. And yes I know the wheelbase is longer, but wow the ride was great! Oh yeah if I hit a few big bumps in the road, I got a little jolt, but otherwise it was great. I just saw a Penske F650 V10 with no such mention of any "gentle" suspension. 2)The BATT-APX armored tactical truck from the Armored Group uses an F550 Super Duty, and the Ford oval is right on the steering wheel! 3) According to Government Fleet mag, there are some new trends: A lot of municipalties and states are finally smartening up and trimming their 4 or 5 makes of Class 7 & 8 trucks to just one standard cab, engine, transmission, chassis. The City of Moline IL is approved to do warranty work on its Ford vehicles. 4) Colonial Manor (NJ) Fire Assoc. just purchased to new KME fire truck replacing a get this, 1989 Ford/Maxim C-series! The truck was in use for almost 30 years and they're still keeping it!

Joe- glad you got the chance to drive the U-Haul 650- Was the Penske 650 a new one (OAP) or a Bluediamond? If a new one, that is a good sign because I believe most of the Bluediamonds were acquired as the result of Penske buying out smaller lease/rental outfits.

[SoonerLS]

I read somewhere that FCA and VW are looking at an alliance of some sort.

I heard this reported within the last week or two--I think it was in one of the CNET RoadShow podcasts, but I'm not positive about that.

[Bob Rosadini]

On an I-90, I-84 road trip yesterday. Good news-saw two new 650/750's . One was a beer distributor (conventional 22' box, not a beverage body,) the other was a beautiful super cab tractor pulling a triaxle gooseneck trailer. Black, aluminum wheels and it was owned by Whelan-the emergency lighting people. They sponsor the modified tour in Nascar so this was the exhibit vehicle that shows up at the tracks. Power Stroke-could not confirm 650/750 but guess it was a 650.

 

On a negative note saw a new KW 33,000lb tanker owned by the biggest wet hoser in the Northeast-thing was so clean I believe it was being delivered to its assigned terminal. This outfit was always a major Ford fleet- a LN -8000's.

[Joe771476]

1) According to Transport Topics, last month Freightliner topped Ford in Class 6! Ford was 2nd, International 3rd. I think Daimler dumped them in frustration! 2) VW says they're coming out with a pickup truck! Okay Ford, time to go into class 8 and make VW's investment in International go down the tubes! 3) Anybody ever see Diesel Brothers on Discovery Channel? They take any truck they can find and turn it into something awesome. Their signature business truck is called the Megaram, a Dodge Ram 4wd, 6-door behemoth. They've done old L-series, military vehicles etc. Every week or month they have a giveaway vehicle for somebody to win. One time they turned an F650 into a 4wd, 6 door with military axles. They also towed a train with it! There's video you can find but all could find was NOT in English. 4) Bluebird is still not advertising the Roush V10 in school bus magazines. 5) Eaton and Cummins are teaming up to provide drivetrains to truck mfrs. 6) It's not good when you see a Transit on the used car lot of a Chevy dealer! Some people just dont like the Transit and Sprinters. Since Ford is still making E-series cutaways, I think they should consider making full length vans to compete with GM's, which are still selling well. 7)Thor Motorcoach makes a huge Miramar RV with a Ford F53 chassis with a V10 Triton engine. 8) I read an article in a truck mag touting the Sprinter van. It called the introduction into the US market a huge success! Yeah, until the Transit showed up! But anyway, I learned to my relief actually that the van has an anti-rollover system to take into consideration the relatively narrow body combined with some models having excessive height. I always thought they were candidates for rollovers. I can only assume the Transit has a similar system.

[twintornados]

1) According to Transport Topics, last month Freightliner topped Ford in Class 6! Ford was 2nd, International 3rd. I think Daimler dumped them in frustration! 2) VW says they're coming out with a pickup truck! Okay Ford, time to go into class 8 and make VW's investment in International go down the tubes! 3) Anybody ever see Diesel Brothers on Discovery Channel? They take any truck they can find and turn it into something awesome. Their signature business truck is called the Megaram, a Dodge Ram 4wd, 6-door behemoth. They've done old L-series, military vehicles etc. Every week or month they have a giveaway vehicle for somebody to win. One time they turned an F650 into a 4wd, 6 door with military axles. They also towed a train with it! There's video you can find but all could find was NOT in English. 4) Bluebird is still not advertising the Roush V10 in school bus magazines. 5) Eaton and Cummins are teaming up to provide drivetrains to truck mfrs. 6) It's not good when you see a Transit on the used car lot of a Chevy dealer! Some people just dont like the Transit and Sprinters. Since Ford is still making E-series cutaways, I think they should consider making full length vans to compete with GM's, which are still selling well. 7)Thor Motorcoach makes a huge Miramar RV with a Ford F53 chassis with a V10 Triton engine. 8) I read an article in a truck mag touting the Sprinter van. It called the introduction into the US market a huge success! Yeah, until the Transit showed up! But anyway, I learned to my relief actually that the van has an anti-rollover system to take into consideration the relatively narrow body combined with some models having excessive height. I always thought they were candidates for rollovers. I can only assume the Transit has a similar system.

.

#6 and #8 are in conflict....

[jpd80]

^{Medium and Heavy Duty Sales, March 2017}

^{Class 4 ..........................3,457}

^{Class 5 ..........................3,520}

^{Class 6 ..........................2,283}

^{Class 7 ..........................105}

^{Class 8 ..........................8}

^{Ford ...............................9,373}

 

^{Class 4 ..........................52}

^{Class 5 ..........................48}

^{Class 6 ..........................2,405}

^{Class 7 ..........................2,406}

^{Class 8 ..........................5,322}

^{Freightliner*............... 10,233}

 

Edited April 21, 2017 by jpd80

[Joe771476]

There was actually a class 8 listing? How? Anyway, the competition is getting fierce in medium duty: In FleetOwner magazine, GM is making available a 6500XD cabover featuring dock height. Eight wheelbases are availbale and accommodates up to 30 foot long bodies. Also, and I think I might have mentioned this already, but Ford won Work Truck magazine's 2017 medium duty truck of the year. Three companies are offering electrification or hydraulic hybrid solutions ranging from F150 to F750 and F53 and F59 stripped chassis. Daimler is rolling out a DD8 7.7 L inline 6 for medium duty applications. In School Bus Fleet: Titan Bus is bringing a new Type A bus to market, using GM van chassis and Ford E-series and Transit chassis.

[jpd80]

Ford Website:

• At the high end, F-750 with GVWRs from 30,200 to 37,000 lbs. - that's Class 8 capability

We've been over this topic several times with people running fleets, Some F750 are technically Class 8

but just not strong enough to match the competition. Heck, F750 sales are so low in Comparison to F650

that the F750 is not competitive with the engines and drive line Ford is using.....

 

The Ford Cargo used in Europe is a better example of what's needed to compete at that level

but I doubt that Ford would consider re-immersing itself back into Class 8......

 

The other point I was making was that of the 81,000 odd trucks sold last month,

only 9,500 were F450 to F750 and that F150, F250 and F350 accounted for

more than 71,000 of those sales. That probably colors Ford view on how much

engine capacity Ford needs and potential sales of a 7.0 V8 gasoline engine.

Edited April 23, 2017 by jpd80

[Bob Rosadini]

We've been over this topic several times with people running fleets, Some F750 are technically Class 8

but just not strong enough to match the competition. Heck, F750 sales are so low in Comparison to F650

that the F750 is not competitive with the engines and drive line Ford is using.....

 

The Ford Cargo used in Europe is a better example of what's needed to compete at that level

but I doubt that Ford would consider re-immersing itself back into Class 8......

 

The other point I was making was that of the 81,000 odd trucks sold last month,

only 9,500 were F450 to F750 and that F150, F250 and F350 accounted for

more than 71,000 of those sales. That probably colors Ford view on how much

engine capacity Ford needs and potential sales of a 7.0 V8 gasoline engine.

IMO the question is just how many incremental sales could Ford get with a bigger gasoline option as well as an alternative diesel to the Power Stroke in particular in class 7. 750 sales are virtually non-existent. I have not seen a 33,000 lb 750 in dealer inventory in all of the truck sales mags-or shouid I say at least in the two that are readily published here in NE. The class 6 numbers are good now but wait till GM starts to really push the Isuzu class 6 trucks

[Sevensecondsuv]

The article about the 7.0 quoted an annual production of 125,000 units. Anyone know what 6.8 production currently is? Does E-series plus, say, 50% (?) of F-450 thru F-750 equal approximately​ 125,000 annually? Or does that production number seem to indicate that the new engine will be more than strictly a 6.8 replacement and find way into additional products (250/350 pickups, mustang)?

Edited April 23, 2017 by Sevensecondsuv

[jpd80]

IMO the question is just how many incremental sales could Ford get with a bigger gasoline option as well as an alternative diesel to the Power Stroke in particular in class 7. 750 sales are virtually non-existent. I have not seen a 33,000 lb 750 in dealer inventory in all of the truck sales mags-or shouid I say at least in the two that are readily published here in NE. The class 6 numbers are good now but wait till GM starts to really push the Isuzu class 6 trucks

The FTR is a cab over class 6 fitted with a 5.2 liter turbocharged I-4 diesel, the F650 is a 6.8 V10 gasoline Truck.

It will be interesting to see what interaction there is between those two vehicle types...

[jpd80]

The article about the 7.0 quoted an annual production of 125,000 units. Anyone know what 6.8 production currently is? Does E-series plus, say, 50% (?) of F-450 thru F-750 equal approximately​ 125,000 annually? Or does that production number seem to indicate that the new engine will be more than strictly a 6.8 replacement and find way into additional products (250/350 pickups, mustang)?

It looks like the 6.8 is offered only in F550 and up, so I guess the plan will be to add the 7.0 to more SDs.

So maybe the plan is in a slightly different direction to what we think....but then that adds another dilemma

for Ford...how to add even more SD production.

 

Yeah, If Ford wants to make more than a token gesture in F750, it needs something more than the engines

and transmissions currently on offer.... are buy ins form someone like Cummins a possible option in Class 7 / 8?

 

2016 Ford Truck Sales - USA

 

Class 4................36,276 (26,414)

Class 5................45,290 (44,569)

Class 6................22,934 (14,805)

Class 7..................1,746 (2,770)

Class 8.....................111 (86)

Total..................106,357 (88,644)

 

 

Total F Series...820,799 (780,354)

Class 2 & 3.......614,442 (691,710)

 

(Remembering that F150 is Class 2a...and approx 400K sales)

 

and then there's E Series vans:...........54,245 (50,541)

Edited April 23, 2017 by jpd80

[Joe771476]

 

I just read that originally Bluebird was using a GM 8.1L engine for propane conversion. Then GM called one day and said they would no longer be supplying the engine. So Bluebird went to Ford. I hope Ford doesn't make that same phone call. Check out this video: