New Light & Medium Duty News

[Bob Rosadini]

Buses with 100 people on it should not be driven by people much over 55. Sorry but lets be realistic. Furthermore they drive WAY too fast. And I've seen them change lanes into a lane on the outside of a curve. For example, if you're on a left turning curve and you're in the left lane, you should not move into the right lane. The laws of physics (centrifugal force) are against you. I've seen this as a possible cause of many bus accidents, especially in wet weather. They also go around exit ramps too fast. I don't know about you, but when I think about 100 plus people sitting up high in those buses, they're going to roll over on a sharp curve. No question about it! I saw a Bluebird Ford/Roush propane school bus at Tasca Ford in Berlin CT. Well who else is going to service them?! They had 3 mediums: one coal truck and two dumps, one with plow. I can't remember now if any of them were 750's as opposed to 650's.

Hah! I hear you on the "elderly" driver issue-but I have to be careful! I would say 77 is pushing the envelope. I have to admit, I look at Peter Pan's first rate equipment and it surprised me they would have someone on the road at that age. No law against it-assume he had a valid medical card but in this day and age, with lawyers just waiting to pounce on every little issue they can, this sounds like a risky proposition. By the way, news reports quoted motorists that were following him as saying he was not speeding, but he was not consistant and would slow down-for no apparent reason, then speed up. sounds to me like he might have been dozing off.

 

Nice to know Tasca is stocking mediums in that part of state. Ever since Interstate in Hartford took the Ford sign down there was a gap in coverage.

[rmc523]

TT- thx- I went back and did find a lot more info just now. Also one shot that clearly showed the Power Stroke badge on the door. Went to oil co web site- very professional. They do show a new F-liner M2 on the site-set up same as this 750.

The video from the bus "dash cam" is unreal-driver is motoring along and Bang! sideswipes the truck which is parked on side of road making delivery.

 

By the way I usually don't have any issues getting PM's on this site-for sure on another I usually get

 

Where'd you see the dash cam video?

[Bob Rosadini]

 

Where'd you see the dash cam video?

You Tube.."Peter Pan Bus Crash Granby MA". You will get all sorts of shots. The "WWLP 22 News" coverage is a newscast made after station obtained video from PD short and shows moment of impact and driver flying out of his seat into the stairwell-which probably saved his life as a branch came flying through windshield.

[7Mary3]

Oh boy, just got the official 2017 Ford Commercial Vehicles calendar. Now remember, this 'Ford Commercial Vehicles' is a brand new deal, a renewed focus by Ford on commercial vehicles sales. Yes sir!

 

Hmm, Lots of pickups and vans, but.... one picture of a couple of old Blue Diamond F-650's and one of a fleet with one new F-650 and an old AeroMax in the background.

 

Not a lot of emphasis on class 6&7 medium duty.

[Bob Rosadini]

Oh boy, just got the official 2017 Ford Commercial Vehicles calendar. Now remember, this 'Ford Commercial Vehicles' is a brand new deal, a renewed focus by Ford on commercial vehicles sales. Yes sir!

 

Hmm, Lots of pickups and vans, but.... one picture of a couple of old Blue Diamond F-650's and one of a fleet with one new F-650 and an old AeroMax in the background.

 

Not a lot of emphasis on class 6&7 medium duty.

7m- shocker huh? Like I have said over and over- they are clueless when it comes to anything beyond 150- Transit. Can you believe they would fire up this new "venture" and then include a Blue Diamond in the copy? If I were a dealer I would be absolutely bullshit over stuff like this. Let me guess...."well 650/750 represents such a small percentage of commercial volume we hesitate to give them any coverage when we are talking about a calendar with 12 "opportunities". They probably thought the Aeromax was a KW!

 

By the way, swung through the local Altech operation today. Have never seen it so crowded with new chassis awaiting installs. Must have been close to 50 F-liner M-2 tandems- white in color. Also a good mix of Internationals, and Petes-all class 7's and 8's

Needless to say, not a 650 or 750 on the property. As for class 4-5, Ford rules-mix of gas and PS. Surprisingly not a Dodge on site (that I could see anyway) Which is surprising as there are plenty of new Verizon and Comcast Dodges in service around here

[hwyman3]

Even on the Fleet website they are still showing the old Blue Diamond chassis for Ambulance builders. Granted, the 650s were not very popular as an Ambulance chassis, but you would think they would update it with the new Mediums, and also update the Super Duty picture as well.

 

http://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/ambulance/

 

At least the brochure has been updated to the new Medium chassis!

 

http://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/brochures/Ambulance_2016_LoRes.pdf

[Bob Rosadini]

Even on the Fleet website they are still showing the old Blue Diamond chassis for Ambulance builders. Granted, the 650s were not very popular as an Ambulance chassis, but you would think they would update it with the new Mediums, and also update the Super Duty picture as well.

 

http://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/ambulance/

 

At least the brochure has been updated to the new Medium chassis!

 

http://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/brochures/Ambulance_2016_LoRes.pdf

HYW-its worse than that-go to the commercial truck website and when you scroll across searching for mediums, what pops up? a Bluediamond- you just can't kill those things I guess! And a lot of the ambulance stuff you posted-2016's

 

But that is a detail-we are being "picky" right?

 

The new calendar thing is just a joke. You make all this noise about a focus on commercial sales and look how much attention you give it. I have a friend who has a fairly significant position in one of the class 8 players-he couldn't resist pulling my chain-yeah Ford really is paying attention to this segment.

 

When you are selling to a class-commercial-what is so difficult about say posting a picture of one of your "big" trucks in the background? Don't you want your customer to get the idea.."Well if they build these "big trucks" my 250-350-whatever-should have some pretty good roots-and come from people with the right mind set".

 

"One Ford"! - Not to the Ford commercial marketers- "I'm selling 150-350-the hell with those "Heavy guys"-let them spend their own add dollars"

[hwyman3]

HYW-its worse than that-go to the commercial truck website and when you scroll across searching for mediums, what pops up? a Bluediamond- you just can't kill those things I guess! And a lot of the ambulance stuff you posted-2016's

 

But that is a detail-we are being "picky" right?

 

The new calendar thing is just a joke. You make all this noise about a focus on commercial sales and look how much attention you give it. I have a friend who has a fairly significant position in one of the class 8 players-he couldn't resist pulling my chain-yeah Ford really is paying attention to this segment.

 

When you are selling to a class-commercial-what is so difficult about say posting a picture of one of your "big" trucks in the background? Don't you want your customer to get the idea.."Well if they build these "big trucks" my 250-350-whatever-should have some pretty good roots-and come from people with the right mind set".

 

"One Ford"! - Not to the Ford commercial marketers- "I'm selling 150-350-the hell with those "Heavy guys"-let them spend their own add dollars"

 

 

I point out the Ambulance market because it is pretty close to me. This is a market that Ford used to own. Baltimore city had gone back to F-Series ambulances over the past couple of years from International. Their latest batch under construction at Horton are Rams.

[7Mary3]

F-650/750: Super Duty aluminum cabs and a 6.?L heavy duty 'Boss' V-8 under the hood, within the next 2 years. Let's see if it happens.

[Bob Rosadini]

F-650/750: Super Duty aluminum cabs and a 6.?L heavy duty 'Boss' V-8 under the hood, within the next 2 years. Let's see if it happens.

A prediction or you have some good "intel" from your contacts?

 

One thing that I would say either supports your statement OR supports the thought that there will be a completely new cab structure for 450-750 is the fact that 450-550 chassis have been moved from KTP to OAP. Is that a fact?? I'm of the belief that KTP now is just 250-450 to include 350 chassis but ONLY 450 pick ups. Can someone confirm that?

 

If that is the case, what you have in the short term is aluminum cabs going to OAP together with steel cabs for 650-750. I assume all the cabs-steel or alum. are still stamped at KTP? Doesn't make sense to me. so 7m3, your statement makes sense OR we will see a purpose built cab that will be used as I said for 450-750 (850 tandem?) plus a new 450-550 cut away that will be the final nail in the E series coffin.

 

Of course just when I think all this makes sense, I think about the comments on the new "Commercial" calendar. Either they really don't care about doing better in class 6-7 or they are just plain inattentive to the details.

 

And please Richard , no flames about "how well" they are doing in class 6-7. I understand those numbers, but It is NOT class 7 and its all class 6 gas power. And that "exclusive" position will probably end in the next year or so.

[7Mary3]

Call it a hunch. At least right now.

 

Not seeing a special dedicated cab for the 450 through 750, don't think the volume is really there.

 

I hear the Navistar/GM JV medium duty might have a special dedicated cab, but if true that cab could possibly be used in other International trucks so there would be enough volume to justify it.

[tbone]

Has it been confirmed that a Transit cab could not be made to work for this application?

[Bob Rosadini]

Call it a hunch. At least right now.

 

Not seeing a special dedicated cab for the 450 through 750, don't think the volume is really there.

 

I hear the Navistar/GM JV medium duty might have a special dedicated cab, but if true that cab could possibly be used in other International trucks so there would be enough volume to justify it.

You might be right-but keep in mind-class 3-4-5 11 mos YTD Ford did 115,913 units, class 6, 19,352 and 7 sadly 2390. Not sure what % of that 115 thousand was 450-550 chassis but for sure Ford sells a lot. I have to believe the economies of scale have to be there.

 

Has it been confirmed that a Transit cab could not be made to work for this application?

I have no clue. I thought from the beginning that could be a possibility (like the old GM 4500-7500's were derived from the van cab.) On the negative side, as others have pointed out in this thread, the knock on the Transit cab is the windshield angle is too flat. You old guys will remember when the Louisville cab made the scene with the 1970 model year, one of its great claims-and a very legitimate one -was the very vertical windshield angle made for a high seating position with excellent visibility. Very difficult to get that out of a Transit glasshouse I would have to believe.

 

But who knows???

[7Mary3]

You might be right-but keep in mind-class 3-4-5 11 mos YTD Ford did 115,913 units, class 6, 19,352 and 7 sadly 2390. Not sure what % of that 115 thousand was 450-550 chassis but for sure Ford sells a lot. I have to believe the economies of scale have to be there.

 

 

O.K., but keep in mind that the aluminum Super Duty cab is quite adequate for the class 3-4-5 trucks, and there really isn't any justification for replacing it on those trucks.

 

Wow, even though it appears for did the 650 and 750 'on the cheap', it is a surprise they developed a unique platform for less than 30,000 units/year.

[RichardJensen]

Not seeing a special dedicated cab for the 450 through 750

 

I could see the 450 w/bed going aluminum & staying with the smaller trucks, while the cab/chassis 350-550 transition to a common cab w/the medium duties and the E450 chassis.

 

At least a partial indicator Ford is considering this is that the E-450, and cab/chassis F350-750 are all being manufactured at OHAP now.

Edited February 4, 2017 by RichardJensen

[bzcat]

I think E-450 is the linchpin in Ford's medium duty plan. It commands enough volume even in its ancient state that any talk of a shared medium duty cab needs to start with what E-450 customers want.

 

I don't really see how Ford wants to breakout F-350/450/550 sales from F-series so they will probably continue to share cabs with F-150/250. There are a few reasons to think that, mainly that F-350 in particular, has has significant retail buyers and the ability to share interior features/techs with F-150 is much more important than sharing cabs with E-450 or F-650. Also, from a marketing standpoint, F-350/450/550 is part of F-series and so it is very important for Ford to maintain the pickup truck form factor so it can continue to claim the crown of best selling vehicle in the US. It will be odd to see F-350/450/550 assume a cab profile that is completely unrelated to a pickup truck if Ford still insist on lumping all the F-series sales together (which they will because they want to beat Chevy).

 

I think we are probably looking at E-450/550 (a new one, not the current one) and F-650/750 somehow being on the same evaluation path, as far as cab is concerned. They are both fleet vehicles with commercial buyers and related concerns/demands. F-350/450/550 is married to F-150 for the foreseeable future.

Edited February 6, 2017 by bzcat

[Sevensecondsuv]

What engines are they putting in the E-series nowadays? They ran out of the 6.0 diesels back in 2011 or so and the 6.7 doesn't fit. 4.6/5.4 are no longer in production. They never did the engineering to put the 3.5, 5.0, or 6.2 in the e series as far as I know. That leaves the V10. The 6.8 is certainly an excellent engine for that application, but it seems a little strange that the base engine would be the big 10. I guess this'll force U-Haul to actually buy an engine big enough to allow their trucks to merge without causing a traffic jam lol.

 

EDIT: Just went and looked on the Ford website. It says something about the newly available 6.2 V8. Six years late but better than never I guess! It will be interesting to see what the take rate is since this appears to be the first product line where the 6.2 and 6.8 are both available simultaneously. My guess is the 6.2 is not rated at 385 HP in this app. It looks funny when the optional engine has less horsepower.

 

EDIT 2: V10 is only option in build and price.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Sevensecondsuv

[jpd80]

2017 Eseries Cutaway 6.8 V10 - 305 HP, 420 lb ft and the 6.2 V8 - 331 hp, 356 lb ft

[Sevensecondsuv]

2017 Eseries Cutaway 6.8 V10 - 305 HP, 420 lb ft and the 6.2 V8 - 331 hp, 356 lb ft

Those are the numbers for the 2v V10... Ford's not still making both the 2v and 3v versions of that engine are they? And the power numbers on the 6.2.... But it's still more than the V10 in that app.

[7Mary3]

3 valve V-10 for F-450-up.

[Sevensecondsuv]

My point was that it appears the e series is still using the 2V V10. The only reason I can think of for this is that it has to do with Ford never put the hardware and electronics for drive by wire throttle in the e series. All 3v V10s were DBW.

 

I guess it's worth continuing to build both versions of the engine to avoid having to design a different intake manifold and throttle body for the 3v motor? Or to avoid the design work to put the DBW stuff in the e series? Got to wonder about the 6.2 though..... Those never used a throttle cable. I wonder what changed to make it work - DBW on the van or they designed a cable intake and throttle body for the engine?

Edited February 7, 2017 by Sevensecondsuv

[RichardJensen]

3v don't fit in the E-450 bay.

[Sevensecondsuv]

Interesting. Looking at them side by side I didn't realize the 3v is bigger. The 2v must be a pretty tight fit of the 3v doesn't fit at all.

[7Mary3]

3v don't fit in the E-450 bay.

 

That's the story I heard. Engine was too large to fit through the floor for the body drop.

[Joe771476]

A few tidbits: 1)Has it been determined that E series cutaways do not run diesels? Because I just saw/heard one! 2) Hey what do you think of the 50's/60's pickup postal stamps?! Two Fords, one Chevy, even an International but no Dodge!!!! Marchionne must have gone nuts! It's probably why the USPS bought 9000 Promasters which my buddy says are junk! 3) I keep seeing Chevy and Dodge/Ram claiming they have the longest lasting trucks! Bull-oney! I see 56 Fords in driveways, on the road, at car shows; I don't see any 50's Chevies or Dodges! And how can Ram claim anything; the Ram brand hasn't been around long! Yeah I know, the fine print must mention the Dodge nameplate. But it's still a bunch of crap. I was watching an episode of "Murder She Wrote" which features tons of Chevy police cars and taxis, and there in the background was a 56 Ford pickup! You mean Universal Studios couldn't find a Chevy???!!! 4) Volvo/Mack has dropped the 16 liter engine group, leaving daimler the sole mfr. 5) Daimler is pitching it's Freightliner chassis for commercial fire apparatus applications in print ads for cash strapped municipalities. I still say Ford should go to the Dearborn Fire Dept., ask them to spec an F750 truck for their needs, and give them 10 of them free so they can test their performance!! Let's get some feedback out there! 6) Cintas is using new F650's for their Shoe Mobile mobile shoe store. 7) Bluebird Bus just got a grant for electric school buses. Ford should get in on it with them. 8) Big article in First Class magazine, a Peterbilt informational mag. Story is about Rick Corman who built up a huge fleet of railroad maintenance trucks, now all Peterbilts. Article says he went to Peterbilt after a previous supplier left the class 8 market in 1998! Ring a bell Bob??!! Okay I'm done!