Lincoln's Renaissance Needs a Jump?

[FordBuyer]

Click here: Lincoln's renaissance needs a jump - Fortune Features

[silvrsvt]

You can't sell what you don't have on the lots...stupid article

[RichardJensen]

Again. Is there any 'there' there?

 

Good grief.

 

At least this piece (unlike the Fool piece on the Mustang) has a quote from a source. But other than that? Hey, media. This is why you're irrelevant. Tell me something I don't know or stop wasting my time. Those are your options.

[aneekr]

It does need a jump, preferably off a cliff.

[BORG]

If Lincoln survives the botched launch of the MKZ, then that in itself is a bit of a story. Lincoln is like a cancer patient that was accidentally shot in the head by incompetent staff while undergoing very expensive therapy to save its life. In either case, it's not going well...but that doesn't mean it won't go well. But Lincoln is embarrassing itself at every possible opportunity which further undermines image building and sets it back a few more years. It's more frustrating when you understand that Lincoln's job is extremely simple compared to most carmakers which actually have to create their cars, Lincoln just styles them and provides the customer experience. The only car company that struggles to deliver products more is Tesla, and again they are actually creating stuff.

 

In any case, I sick of watching Lincoln struggle constantly with every opportunity its given.

Edited March 30, 2013 by BORG

[RichardJensen]

Yes. Because 90 days into a marketing and product overhaul, you know 100% of everything about how it will end.

 

The internet. Where owning a keyboard means you're a genius.

[BORG]

Yes. Because 90 days into a marketing and product overhaul, you know 100% of everything about how it will end.

 

The internet. Where owning a keyboard means you're a genius.

 

 

No, I agree, it's too early. And I honestly hope things turn around and Lincoln figures out how to be much better.

[FordBuyer]

If Lincoln survives the botched launch of the MKZ, then that in itself is a bit of a story. Lincoln is like a cancer patient that was accidentally shot in the head by incompetent staff while undergoing very expensive therapy to save its life. In either case, it's not going well...but that doesn't mean it won't go well. But Lincoln is embarrassing itself at every possible opportunity which further undermines image building and sets it back a few more years. It's more frustrating when you understand that Lincoln's job is extremely simple compared to most carmakers which actually have to create their cars, Lincoln just styles them and provides the customer experience. The only car company that struggles to deliver products more is Tesla, and again they are actually creating stuff.

 

In any case, I sick of watching Lincoln struggle constantly with every opportunity its given.

 

Poor comparison with Tesla which created a ground breaking EV that competes with best luxury cars in world, and is much more unique and revolutiionary. Just read another review of Model S where it needed some performance tweaks, and Tesla made the corrections wireless like it was the Dragon capsule in space, and Model S then did 0-60 time of 4.1 seconds and handled like a Panamera. Add in the solar powered charging stations in the warmer, sunnier climates, and it can be off any kind of grid some of the time at least. Tesla has shown up everyone, and is making an EV system for MB. Meanwhile, Lincoln is still trying to get it together and who knows when that will be. I am starting to see more MKZ's on road though and just saw one with the retractable top down since it's almost 60 degrees around here and sunny. Sorry, but the MKZ looks odd with that giant piece of glass down and gaps showing. A novelty I would say, and will be interesting to see how many opt for it. I like the panoramic sun roof though. I've seen maybe 10 MKZ's on road last week or so, and only one with retractable top.

[twmalonehunter]

Poor comparison with Tesla which created a ground breaking EV that competes with best luxury cars in world, and is much more unique and revolutiionary. Just read another review of Model S where it needed some performance tweaks, and Tesla made the corrections wireless like it was the Dragon capsule in space, and Model S then did 0-60 time of 4.1 seconds and handled like a Panamera. Add in the solar powered charging stations in the warmer, sunnier climates, and it can be off any kind of grid some of the time at least. Tesla has shown up everyone, and is making an EV system for MB. Meanwhile, Lincoln is still trying to get it together and who knows when that will be. I am starting to see more MKZ's on road though and just saw one with the retractable top down since it's almost 60 degrees around here and sunny. Sorry, but the MKZ looks odd with that giant piece of glass down and gaps showing. A novelty I would say, and will be interesting to see how many opt for it. I like the panoramic sun roof though. I've seen maybe 10 MKZ's on road last week or so, and only one with retractable top.

Yea talk to me when Tesla actually makes a profit.

[ice-capades]

Neither Ford Motor Company or the new Lincoln Motor Company seem to be operating as either division did under Ford's CEO direction until the past year or so. First there was the multiple recall situation with the 2013 Escape launch... then the continuous quality holds and shipping delays with the 2013 Fusion. Both Fusion & Lincoln vehicles being sent to Flat Rock for additional quality inspection and/or repair issues yet my Dealership still has a Fusion sitting athe plant since last October 6th with no information provided to inquiries from Ford's Business Assistance Center as recently as last week!

[jpd80]

All the critics seem to have Lincoln dead and buried, how about we wait until

the cars are actually in dealerships before giving Lincoln the last rights.

 

All I'm reading lately is a lot of, "I told you so" and "If Lincoln doesn't copy Cadillac...."

Jeez, some of these reporters give me the creeps, first it's Lincoln needs to spend a fortune

or Lincoln is just a worthless brand that no one will buy,... talk about jumping on the band wagon..

 

I hope Ford takes its time with Lincoln and gets everything right before releasing products,

that's the way you build a name for quality, not by spending billions on copying someone else.

[Edstock]

and is much more unique

 

Poor writing. Either something is unique, or it isn't. Nothing is "more" unique than anything else that is also "unique".

[jpd80]

Poor writing. Either something is unique, or it isn't. Nothing is "more" unique than anything else that is also "unique".

And that's key here, how much change is needed to make the Lincolns appear unique, even though they aren't.

 

A lot of buyers would surely be relieved to know that the bones of their Lincolns are based on reliable Ford platforms

enabling servicing and parts through a much wider network, all bringing down costs....

Edited March 30, 2013 by jpd80

[jasonj80]

Lincolns MKZ launch isn't the full issue - the issue is the media piling on to a small issue that will make it a big issue but thats still not it. The bigger issue that Lincoln has is the snails pace they want to relaunch the brand. If they are going to do it they need to do it right - there should be a new launch every 6 months. The new MKC should be coming out now, the new MKX this fall, a new C sized car next spring, a new MKT (Explorer based) next fall. The snails launch pace is what is going to doom Lincoln. They don't have any momentum to continue brand expansion.

I still say Ford should have canned Lincoln and Mercury and kept Jag/Landrover, the 2 billion they got for it will need to be spent on just Lincoln marketing to make it reverent. Lincoln needs its own assembly plant. If Ford was serious about Lincoln they will give it's own plant. Retrofit Woodhaven stamping for Lincoln production, you've got all the stamping on site, toss in a paint shop and line and you're good - right down from FRAP and on the same rail system as the other Ford Plants. (I know this is totally unfeasible and not going to happen)

Until Ford realizes that Lincoln needs to be more than a Ford with LED head and tail lights and some fancy tech that you can get on the same for model else where in the world on a Ford, Lincoln will always be referred to as a fancy Ford because that is all that Ford is making it.

You can get a LED Headlights and DRL's, heated steering wheel and heated rear seats on a few vehicles in the Fusion class (Altima, Kia, Hyundai, Honda). Ford doesn't offer them on the Fusion, you need an MKZ for that. That isn't want makes a Luxury brand. Either spend the money and make Lincoln a real car with a real product launch or limp along and rob both Ford and Lincoln of great success.

[jpd80]

In the end, who are we to say how Ford runs its business, Lincoln exists as frosting on Ford's production cake.

The point here is to make money, not to satsify every critic's expectation of what a luxury brand should be.

I see Lincoln evolving at a snails pace, so heralding the reinvention of Lincoln was not a smart move,

that should have happened this time next year when MKZ, MKC and hopefully the new MKX

and Navigator are in the throws of arriving......

[2b2]

...The bigger issue that Lincoln has is the snails pace they want to relaunch the brand. If they are going to do it they need to do it right - there should be a new launch every 6 months. The new MKC should be coming out now, the new MKX this fall, a new C sized car next spring, a new MKT (Explorer based) next fall. The snails launch pace is what is going to doom Lincoln. They don't have any momentum to continue brand expansion...

 

yeah^ at least

2014cy might have more than 2 launches depending on how we count;

the most recent hints I've seen indicate that this time next year:

- the MKC will (only) be in mid-launch

- the MKX launch will be a few months off yet

- a "new" MKS will have been shown at NAIAS but not nec. a production version & no word if it's CD4+3 or still on D3/4

- same for a new Navi; not launched but shown - possibly at Chicago - concept/production = ?

Edited March 31, 2013 by 2b2

[BORG]

All the critics seem to have Lincoln dead and buried, how about we wait until

the cars are actually in dealerships before giving Lincoln the last rights.

 

All I'm reading lately is a lot of, "I told you so" and "If Lincoln doesn't copy Cadillac...."

Jeez, some of these reporters give me the creeps, first it's Lincoln needs to spend a fortune

or Lincoln is just a worthless brand that no one will buy,... talk about jumping on the band wagon..

 

I hope Ford takes its time with Lincoln and gets everything right before releasing products,

that's the way you build a name for quality, not by spending billions on copying someone else.

I think Ford is really struggling to get the wheels greased at Lincoln, and fortunately they aren't spending allot of money to figure this out.

 

Lincoln does need to do something about its marketing campaign, I rarely see the same commercial played constantly for months like this. It's a tremendous waste of money to turn your message into sonic wallpaper.

 

And unfortunately Lincoln is slave to Ford's persistent quality and production woes which is further complicating their penny-pinching margin-rich business model. They want to make a Ford with massive margins, and guess what...it's a reality conundrum. Lincoln is harder and harder to respect.

Edited March 31, 2013 by BORG

[RichardJensen]

Lincolns MKZ launch isn't the full issue - the issue is the media piling on to a small issue that will make it a big issue but thats still not it. The bigger issue that Lincoln has is the snails pace they want to relaunch the brand. If they are going to do it they need to do it right - there should be a new launch every 6 months. The new MKC should be coming out now, the new MKX this fall, a new C sized car next spring, a new MKT (Explorer based) next fall. The snails launch pace is what is going to doom Lincoln. They don't have any momentum to continue brand expansion.

 

I still say Ford should have canned Lincoln and Mercury and kept Jag/Landrover, the 2 billion they got for it will need to be spent on just Lincoln marketing to make it reverent. Lincoln needs its own assembly plant. If Ford was serious about Lincoln they will give it's own plant. Retrofit Woodhaven stamping for Lincoln production, you've got all the stamping on site, toss in a paint shop and line and you're good - right down from FRAP and on the same rail system as the other Ford Plants. (I know this is totally unfeasible and not going to happen)

 

Until Ford realizes that Lincoln needs to be more than a Ford with LED head and tail lights and some fancy tech that you can get on the same for model else where in the world on a Ford, Lincoln will always be referred to as a fancy Ford because that is all that Ford is making it.

 

You can get a LED Headlights and DRL's, heated steering wheel and heated rear seats on a few vehicles in the Fusion class (Altima, Kia, Hyundai, Honda). Ford doesn't offer them on the Fusion, you need an MKZ for that. That isn't want makes a Luxury brand. Either spend the money and make Lincoln a real car with a real product launch or limp along and rob both Ford and Lincoln of great success.

 

Point by point:

 

"Snails pace launch" and "Lincoln needs to be more than a Ford with LED..." are both "No true Scotsman" arguments. You have, basically, made up your own 'rules' suitably flexible, and somehow favoring the course of action that Ford is *not* taking.

 

Secondly. the $2B Ford got for JLR was basically chump change compared to what those brands cost Ford over the years. Brands which are habitually in the red, with entrenched management that feels that they deserve a subsidy rather than an obligation to contribute to the overall health of the company.

 

Thirdly, your idea that Ford should build Lincolns in their own factory is, basically, condemning Lincoln to add a fortune to the unit cost of every single product for something that only a handful of corksniffers pretend to care about, and then only to raise an objection to purchase.

 

That is, a Lincoln-only factory removes an objection to Lincoln products, it does not add an incentive to purchase. Who knows where products are built, except those who are either fans or fault-finders? And if you're a fault-finder, could you please explain to me why I should spend a fortune removing old faults so you can find new ones?

 

Cripes. 80% of BMW 1-Series buyers think their cars are FWD. Pretty sure they would have no clue if the products were assembled by elephants under the supervision of zebras in a factory on the moon.

 

I mean your argument is either logical fallacies or it's stuff that no persuadable consumer cares about.

 

And then the idea that if Lincoln isn't registering some arbitrary level of success in some arbitrarily short period of time that it has failed? Where does this even come from? Why do people do stuff like this?

 

If ______ doesn't __________ in ________, then ______.

 

Every blank should be filled with something that can be externally measured.

[jpd80]

And then compare what Lincoln is doing with the MKZ against what Cadillac has just done with ATS and CTS,

GM has basically split the old CTS market in two all for the vanity of chasing after BMW,

I mean, is this what critics want Lincoln to do, follow this expensive copy cat plan?

 

Cadillac has spent an awful lot of cash on two Alpha products, the expectations for those two vehicles are high so

they better deliver more than 3,000/mth sales each otherwise comparisons with MKZ become financially unsustainable..

[Fgts]

And then compare what Lincoln is doing with the MKZ against what Cadillac has just done with ATS and CTS,

GM has basically split the old CTS market in two all for the vanity of chasing after BMW,

I mean, is this what critics want Lincoln to do, follow this expensive copy cat plan?

 

Cadillac has spent an awful lot of cash on two Alpha products, the expectations for those two vehicles are high so

they better deliver more than 3,000/mth sales each otherwise comparisons with MKZ become financially unsustainable..

If the Alpha platform is one division only you might have a point but it being shared with Camaro and other cars in the future ( yes, rwd platforms can be shared like fwd ........). The bigger question is if I'm an American mid-size luxury buyer will I get the boldly designed rwd/awd sedan with the 430 hp turbo engine or the prom tuxedo-up, v6 Fusion???. Edited March 31, 2013 by Fgts

[silvrsvt]

If the Alpha platform is one division only you might have a point but it being shared with Camaro and other cars in the future ( yes, rwd platforms can be shared like fwd ........).

But it still doesn't take away from the fact that this is the third time that they are trying to get it "right" Its a monumental waste of capital.

 

The bigger question is if I'm an American mid-size luxury buyer will I get the boldly designed rwd/awd sedan with the 430 hp turbo engine or the prom tuxedo-up, v6 Fusion???.

 

They aren't even in the same target market...the MKZ is 5K cheaper in base price and nearly 7-10K cheaper fully loaded.

[BORG]

And then compare what Lincoln is doing with the MKZ against what Cadillac has just done with ATS and CTS,

GM has basically split the old CTS market in two all for the vanity of chasing after BMW,

I mean, is this what critics want Lincoln to do, follow this expensive copy cat plan?

 

Cadillac has spent an awful lot of cash on two Alpha products, the expectations for those two vehicles are high so

they better deliver more than 3,000/mth sales each otherwise comparisons with MKZ become financially unsustainable..

 

You mean Caddy is trying too hard, they need to stop overachieving and bring it down a bit? They need to do what Lincoln is doing, redress a Malibu and an Impala and charge $20K more for it, and viola, instant gold and world acclaim.

 

You know, building an expensive luxury brand is...well....expensive. Lincoln wants the ATPs, but with a fraction of the effort. Especially in Lincoln's case since they have absolutely no institutional memory on how to create a luxury car, particularly ones propelled from the back. For Lincoln creating a CTS would be a monumental undertaking, for Caddy it's just a progression of established investments (both in R&D and costs). For Caddy, the XTS is something they can just phone in as a stop-gap measure, for Lincoln it's their entire business model and they are struggling to deliver on that. Lincoln's strategy, as it has always been, is finding ways to add value through things it can bolt onto a cheap carriage, like a glass roof (that incidentally leaked and ruined 600 cars and delayed the launch).

 

And sure I'm kvetching, don't mind me. But I'm still extremely exhausted at my brand's persistent inability to get its shit together in any respectful way. It's important for me to find pride in the product decisions I make, and Lincoln just doesn't deserve it and I don't see any signs that this is changing outside of a more polished marketing message. Sure I will continue to buy them as long as I get Ford Family discounts, but that's because I feel I'm buying a great Ford, not a great Lincoln.

Edited March 31, 2013 by BORG

[FordBuyer]

You mean Caddy is trying too hard, they need to stop overachieving and bring it down a bit? They need to do what Lincoln is doing, redress a Malibu and an Impala and charge $20K more for it, and viola, instant gold and world acclaim.

 

You know, building an expensive luxury brand is...well....expensive. Lincoln wants the ATPs, but with a fraction of the effort. Especially in Lincoln's case since they have absolutely no institutional memory on how to create a luxury car, especially ones propelled from the back. For Lincoln creating a CTS would be a monumental undertaking, for Caddy it's just a progression of established investments (both in R&D and costs). For Caddy, the XTS is something they can just phone in as a stop-gap measure, for Lincoln it's their entire business model and they are struggling to deliver on that.

 

And sure I'm kvetching, don't mind me. But I'm still extremely exhausted at my brand's persistent inability to get its shit together in any respectful way. It's important for me to find pride in the product decisions I make, and Lincoln just doesn't deserve it.

 

I was walking through grocery parking lot yesterday and stopped to look at new Tuxedo black MKZ in pretty much base form without panoramic sun roof and standard 2.0 EB I4 engine. As I looked at it, I appreciated that it was better than previous MKZ, but damn, still couldn't make a case for it with that 240hp motor in a vehicle pushing $40,000 with a few options. The base motor in MKZ should be at least 270hp as I'm sure Ford could have reworked that motor for the Lincoln and given it something more competitive. I certainly hope within 12 months or so MKZ is offered with new 2.7L motor and 8 speed trans. This vehicle will date very quickly without significant improvements every 12-18 months. The new CTS just blows this vehicle away in every benchmark. I was afraid of this in that the competition moves way past Lincoln even before Lincoln can get new product into dealership. Already there is a slew of new MKC type CUV's hitting the market. LINCOLN DOESN'T HAVE THE LUXURY OF TIME ON ITS SIDE. And the dealers need something yesterday, not four years down the road. And prospecitive customers who on average are 65 years old don't have lots of time to wait either.

[BORG]

I was walking through grocery parking lot yesterday and stopped to look at new Tuxedo black MKZ in pretty much base form without panoramic sun roof and standard 2.0 EB I4 engine. As I looked at it, I appreciated that it was better than previous MKZ, but damn, still couldn't make a case for it with that 240hp motor in a vehicle pushing $40,000 with a few options. The base motor in MKZ should be at least 270hp as I'm sure Ford could have reworked that motor for the Lincoln and given it something more competitive. I certainly hope within 12 months or so MKZ is offered with new 2.7L motor and 8 speed trans. This vehicle will date very quickly without significant improvements every 12-18 months. The new CTS just blows this vehicle away in every benchmark. I was afraid of this in that the competition moves way past Lincoln even before Lincoln can get new product into dealership. Already there is a slew of new MKC type CUV's hitting the market. LINCOLN DOESN'T HAVE THE LUXURY OF TIME ON ITS SIDE. And the dealers need something yesterday, not four years down the road. And prospecitive customers who on average are 65 years old don't have lots of time to wait either.

The MKZ is a bit humdrum in the real world, like a Buick LaCrosse. Alluring initially, but decidedly unhip and dull compared to cars like an Audi A6 or CTS. It gets worse if you strip away those distinctive features, like the glass roof.

Edited March 31, 2013 by BORG

[Edstock]

They need to do what Lincoln is doing, redress a Malibu and an Impala and charge $20K more for it, and viola, instant gold and world acclaim.

 

So Lincoln is redressing Malibus and Impalas? I didn't know Lincoln was doing that.

 

 

For Caddy, the XTS is something they can just phone in as a stop-gap measure, for Lincoln it's their entire business model and they are struggling to deliver on that. I didn't know that the XTS was part of Lincoln's business model.

 

 

But I'm still extremely exhausted at my brand's persistent inability to get its shit together in any respectful way. It's important for me to find pride in the product decisions I make, and Lincoln just doesn't deserve it and I don't see any signs that this is changing outside of a more polished marketing message. Sure I will continue to buy them as long as I get Ford Family discounts, but that's because I feel I'm buying a great Ford, not a great Lincoln. You'll be much happier driving something more ego-supportive, so you can find your pride "in the product decisions" you make. Plus you'll be able to catch up on your sleep, so you won't be "still extremely exhausted".

 

The MKZ is a bit humdrum in the real world, like a Buick LaCrosse. Alluring initially, but decidedly unhip and dull compared to cars like an Audi A6 or CTS. It gets worse if you strip away those distinctive features, like the glass roof. A bit humdrum? "Decidely unhip" Those are your opinions. It seems however, that other sentient humans with refined tastes seem to disagree with you.