Lincoln Studying What New Models to Bring Out Next

[BORG]

Well, it looks more sinister and less doppy

[Edstock]

are all the size of previous generation A4, C-class, and 3 series sedan so we are not talking about tiny cars.

 

Sure loved that previous-generation A4S from a while back with the V-8. Even saw a wagon version, in Orillia, Ontario, of all places.

 

So a turbo-Nano V-6 will do just fine, IMHO, as the top option for a fine small luxury Lincoln of the same size, if only to be market-competitive with the other V-6 M, S, and AMG variants that are sure to appear from their respective manufacturers.

[Biker16]

So, you want an A3 size and I want an A4 size and width, where a V-6 is a necessary option, IMHO.

 

It also keeps Lincoln away from Ford product that gets into A3 territory, like the Focus ST, or the Focus Titanium, and charges of "gussied-up Fords", with what they do eventually build.

 

It sounds like the logic ford and GM were using the justify using the large Taurus and Impalas against the much smaller Camry and Accord.

 

 

remember all the bragging Ford did because it offered a standard V6 while the imports offered I4.

like having a big engine makes a better car, they failed, and this will fail.

 

Making a A4 sized car, means it won't be a compact car. which defeats the purpose of a compact Lincoln, that isn't compact, which is not what the market is buying?

 

 

Thats the issue Lincoln is facing today...they need to separated as much as possible vs other Ford products till they lose that stigma, offering a V6 or even a V8 in products vs whats in a comparable Ford trim, would be a big help with that.

 

AFAIK, the Lexus that share the same platforms as Toyotas also use the same engines and they don't have that issue of being called gussed up Toyotas...

 

It would be a better to investing real differentiation and not wasting time on gimmicks like a large moonroof or a gussied up'd engine.

 

Invest true differentiation, seats, IP, switchgear, etc.

 

A3 size is where all the growth in luxury segment will come from in the next few years so that's why Ford is thinking about it for Lincoln. New A3, CLA and upcoming 2 series grand coupe are all the size of previous generation A4, C-class, and 3 series sedan so we are not talking about tiny cars.

 

Exactly.

[Edstock]

Making a A4 sized car, means it won't be a compact car. which defeats the purpose of a compact Lincoln, that isn't compact, which is not what the market is buying?

 

A3 size is fine by me. But it will need a V-6 option to stay competitive, eventually, because the Germans will offer it sooner rather than later, and if you want to be taken seriously as an alternative, so should Lincoln, but that's just my opinion.

[silvrsvt]

It would be a better to investing real differentiation and not wasting time on gimmicks like a large moonroof or a gussied up'd engine.

 

Invest true differentiation, seats, IP, switchgear, etc.

 

How in the hell are people going to tell if a seat frame is the same? IP in Lincolns and Fords look different, switchgear you might have a wobbly leg to stand-on...

[papilgee4evaeva]

You do understand the compact Audi is not the s4 but the s3 and it puts out an astounding 200hp.

 

The V6 is overkill.

 

That would be the A3 (200 hp). The S3 (265ish HP, turbo 4) and RS3 (340 HP, turbo 5) aren't offered here yet.

Also, I was just reminded that the A3 is discontinued until the sedan is ready. That one will have new engines, including the same turbo-5 (RS3) that will make somewhere between 360 and 400 HP. And yet the V6 in a Lincoln will be overkill?

 

Personally, I'd be good with about 275 from the Nano V6 (naturally aspirated) in a baby Lincoln. 340 would be but a hairdryer or two away... and would obviously be aimed more at the need-for-speed-with-my-luxury crowd.

[Fgts]

I think Lincoln would be wise to offer Focus based CLA competition with a 330+ hp Ecoboost option, this will give Lincoln instant street credit and entry luxury buyers will take notice.

[92merc]

Lincoln doesn't need to bring out something to compete with Audi or BMW. GM has spent a boat load on Cadilac trying to be a "BMW fighter".

 

Lincoln needs to start with profitable cars with its own style. With the exception of a halo car, maybe two, max HP engines are going to be the deciding factor as to whether a buyer buys the Lincoln. It's likely other features.

[BORG]

I'm a Lincoln customer and have no interest in a two-door anything. A sexy 4-door or CUV, sure!

[NickF1011]

Making a A4 sized car, means it won't be a compact car. which defeats the purpose of a compact Lincoln, that isn't compact, which is not what the market is buying?

It would still be more compact than the MKZ, which is the point. And which sells better? The A4 or the A3? Yes, the A3's volume might be increasing at a faster pace, but it's still much smaller than the A4's overall.

[BORG]

I think Lincoln would have a hard time selling to those Audi A3/A4 customers. However, Buick and Lincoln customers are closely aligned and the Verano is doing quite well however. The gulf between Lincoln and Audi is absolutely enormous, it's a pretend competitor but there is really no comparison. Remember Lincoln doesn't actually engineer stuff.

Edited June 18, 2013 by BORG

[NickF1011]

I think Lincoln would have a hard time selling to those Audi A3/A4 customers. However, Buick and Lincoln customers are closely aligned and the Verano is doing quite well however. The gulf between Lincoln and Audi is absolutely enormous, it's a pretend competitor but there is really no comparison. Remember Lincoln doesn't actually engineer stuff.

Eh, I think people are too set on defining buyers as being a _____-brand customer. Yes, there are brand loyal buyers out there, but there are also a ton of buyers who aren't in the least. Even my relatively brand-loyal parents have owned Chevys, Jeeps, Fords, Buicks, a Saturn, and even a Toyota over the years. Those who cross-shop may very well look at an Audi and a Lincoln too if they have some similar characteristics.

[silvrsvt]

Remember Lincoln doesn't actually engineer stuff.

 

Just like VW does it for Audi?

[NickF1011]

Just like VW does it for Audi?

Ehhh...it's all out of the same coffers at the end of the day, but Audi does have its own engineering division separate from VW.

[sullynd]

An ST with an automatic and Lincoln clothing could be a pretty sweet ride. AWD even better.

[RichardJensen]

Ehhh...it's all out of the same coffers at the end of the day, but Audi does have its own engineering division separate from VW.

 

I wouldn't lean too heavily on that bit of VW PR....

[papilgee4evaeva]

Lincoln doesn't need to bring out something to compete with Audi or BMW. GM has spent a boat load on Cadilac trying to be a "BMW fighter".

 

Lincoln needs to start with profitable cars with its own style. With the exception of a halo car, maybe two, max HP engines are going to be the deciding factor as to whether a buyer buys the Lincoln. It's likely other features.

 

No matter what, Lincoln's gonna be competing with other brands for customers in certain segments. Like everyone else competes with everyone else.

 

The key is not explicitly portraying yourself as a "<insert brand here>-fighter."

[papilgee4evaeva]

I wouldn't lean too heavily on that bit of VW PR....

 

We always come back to this discussion.

 

Until I see some actual, up-to-date (read: from the last Passat to now) evidence to the contrary, I'll buy into it.

[NickF1011]

I wouldn't lean too heavily on that bit of VW PR....

While there is certainly a lot of cross-pollination to avoid redundancies, I'm pretty sure they do have entirely separate staffing and management to a large degree. Now, whether or not that really means a whole lot and whether or not it is actually a more efficient or effective way of doing things can certainly be argued.

[papilgee4evaeva]

It would still be more compact than the MKZ, which is the point. And which sells better? The A4 or the A3? Yes, the A3's volume might be increasing at a faster pace, but it's still much smaller than the A4's overall.

 

Folks have figured out that you can buy the A3 hatch from the local Volkswagen dealer in the form of the GTI... for much much less.

[Biker16]

It would still be more compact than the MKZ, which is the point. And which sells better? The A4 or the A3? Yes, the A3's volume might be increasing at a faster pace, but it's still much smaller than the A4's overall.

Globally I don't think they are that far apart in sales.

 

Considering the majority of A4 sold use the 170hp turbo engine, and are not the S4, wouldn't Lincoln do better to focus on where the market is buying not living up to some muscle car lovers wet dream?

 

GM and ford have both tried and failed to market "tweener" products, they have failed because they miss the point, and over time become conventionally sized with the segment leaders.

 

So let bring up the issue of taxes.

 

If you are selling a compact entry level Lincoln in china you are taxed for offering engines over 1.6 liters. How many entry level luxury cars sales will you lose by building a car that is too large and too heavy for a 1.5 or 1.6 liter engine cannot move competitively?

[RichardJensen]

We always come back to this discussion.

 

Until I see some actual, up-to-date (read: from the last Passat to now) evidence to the contrary, I'll buy into it.

 

Right. It's purely coincidence that Audi & VW AWD systems are frequently the same, and that both engineering units have developed engines that are remarkably similar.

[silvrsvt]

So let bring up the issue of taxes.

 

If you are selling a compact entry level Lincoln in china you are taxed for offering engines over 1.6 liters. How many entry level luxury cars sales will you lose by building a car that is too large and too heavy for a 1.5 or 1.6 liter engine cannot move competitively?

 

Well the larger Fusion already getting a 1.5L engine for the Chinese market...

[NickF1011]

Considering the majority of A4 sold use the 170hp turbo engine, and are not the S4, wouldn't Lincoln do better to focus on where the market is buying not living up to some muscle car lovers wet dream?

 

Who said anything about a "muscle car lover's wet dream"?? Just pointing out that something more the A4's size has more potential for sales than something the A3's size.

If you are selling a compact entry level Lincoln in china you are taxed for offering engines over 1.6 liters. How many entry level luxury cars sales will you lose by building a car that is too large and too heavy for a 1.5 or 1.6 liter engine cannot move competitively?

The 1.6 EB wouldn't competitively propel something the size of the A4?

[Deanh]

I'm a Lincoln customer and have no interest in a two-door anything. A sexy 4-door or CUV, sure!

exhibit A, 2 versions 275 hp 2.7 nano, 350 plus eco-nano....AWD ....or RWD.....