RichardJensen Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Actually yes I do think it's the worse, everyone else makes sense Really? The Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes and Cadillac lettering schemes make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 It's easier to be critical of vehicles when you're not actually interested in buying them, many critics have the view that their opinion is representative of a vast majority of buyers when its nothing further from the truth in a fragmented market... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) I dunno. I kinda think they are. Really? Take at look at Infiniti's. It's nonsense (they chucked a G series for a Q series...WHY?). The baselines for BMW and Mercedes only "make sense" because the 3/5/7 and the C/E/S have been that effectively forever and do progress w/class size (aside from SUV/CUV). But the numericals on those are SUPPOSED to make sense. Especially in the Mercedes w/ the general idea of the correlation to engine size, but that's no longer exactly true...and in BMW's, they make no real sense at all--I mean, I know the 330 has a bigger engine than a 328, but it's certainly not a 3.28L engine in that car. And unless you know the car, there's no way you can say knowing a 328xi is AWD is intuitive. There's no intuition to Lincoln's nomenclature--it's not ascending by alphabetical order by car class or anything...but it's only currently 4 cars...how hard is it to remember MKZ/MKS/MKT/MKX? You tell me every BMW model off the top of your head. Edited June 25, 2013 by BrewfanGRB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Really? Take at look at Infiniti's. It's nonsense (they chucked a G series for a Q series...WHY?). The baselines for BMW and Mercedes only "make sense" because the 3/5/7 and the C/E/S have been that effectively forever and do progress w/class size (aside from SUV/CUV). But the numericals on those are SUPPOSED to make sense. Especially in the Mercedes w/ the general idea of the correlation to engine size, but that's no longer exactly true...and in BMW's, they make no real sense at all--I mean, I know the 330 has a bigger engine than a 328, but it's certainly not a 3.28L engine in that car. And unless you know the car, there's no way you can say knowing a 328xi is AWD is intuitive. There's no intuition to Lincoln's nomenclature--it's not ascending by alphabetical order by car class or anything...but it's only currently 4 cars...how hard is it to remember MKZ/MKS/MKT/MKX? You tell me every BMW model off the top of your head. 1 Series/2 Series (forthcoming) (28i, 35i, xDrive/sDrive) 3 Series/3 Series GT (forthcoming)/4 Series (forthcoming)/M3 (20i, 28i, 35i, 35is likely, 35d, xDrive/sDrive) 5 Series/5 Series GT/M5 (28i, 35i, 50i, ActiveHybrid 5, xDrive/sDrive) 6 Series/M6 (40i, 50i, xDrive/sDrive) 7 Series/ALPINA B7 (ActiveHybrid 7, 40i, 50i, 60i, xDrive/sDrive, Li versions) X1 (xDrive28i) X3 (xDrive28i, xDrive35i) X5/X5 M (xDrive35i, xDrive50i, xDrive35d) X6/X6 M (xDrive50i, xDrive35d I think) Z4 (30i, 35i, 35is I think) Come on, that was easy. But mainly because they do progress in order and they haven't screwed with it in over 30 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-Or-Nothing Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Nice Google save... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I just get a kick of giving it nicknames, MarKuS, MarKeT, MarKZee, MarKeX, now MarKeR, so now my friends are picking up on it "OH look it's that hideous Lincoln Market", soon it'll be "Look it's the new Marker"... ugghhh You have some real stupid friends... Really? The Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes and Cadillac lettering schemes make sense? Wait until Cadillac comes out with their coupe version of XTS and calls it XTC.....drug dealers will be lining up to buy it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 Also, MKN? Please tell me they weren't planning on extending the scheme to the Navigator... I believe this was the plan a few years ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 MBenz, Lexus, Caddy, Volvo has a pretty easy scheme as well. Inifiniti and Acura are currently the ones changing to a different order. Should Papil go thruough those for us an education lesson too ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I believe this was the plan a few years ago... I think they backtracked on that though. From what has been said more recently, the Navigator name will likely remain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Nice Google save... From memory. Scout's honor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 MBenz, Lexus, Caddy, Volvo has a pretty easy scheme as well. Inifiniti and Acura are currently the ones changing to a different order. Should Papil go thruough those for us an education lesson too ? MB gets a pass because although C, E, S, CL, CLS, SL, SLK, SLS, G, GL, GLK, and ML don't mean anything to us Americans, they do have meanings in German. I do know that the K at the end of a model designator signifies "short" or "small." It does help out that C, E, and S are in alphabetical order. Lesus ES, IS, GS, LS, RX, GX, LX progress in order, and I take it "S" means sedan and "X" designates SUVs. Volvo's size increases by number, just like Audi... and just like Infiniti is trying to do. Caddy: ATS (A for Alpha, the platform), CTS (C for Catera, the predecessor to the CTS), dead STS (S for Seville), dead DTS (D for Deville). SRX and XLR I can't call. And then there's Acura which makes no sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 I think they backtracked on that though. From what has been said more recently, the Navigator name will likely remain. Correct... MK_ isn't necessarily going to be used on everything going forward, thank goodness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Lesus ES, IS, Pretty sure the ES is larger than the IS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Pretty sure the ES is larger than the IS. Also tacitly regarded as a "lesser" model since it's been a re-wrapped (or now stretched) Camry for its entire existence. You should have called me out on IS, GS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) Also tacitly regarded as a "lesser" model since it's been a re-wrapped (or now stretched) Camry for its entire existence. You should have called me out on IS, GS. Will just call you out on all of it then. I wouldn't say Lexus considers the ES or IS to be greater or lesser than one another either. They are just different. How do you "properly" apply naming conventions to vehicles that occupy the same price point but are intended to cover different areas of the market? Edited June 25, 2013 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) MB gets a pass because although C, E, S, CL, CLS, SL, SLK, SLS, G, GL, GLK, and ML don't mean anything to us Americans, they do have meanings in German. I do know that the K at the end of a model designator signifies "short" or "small." It does help out that C, E, and S are in alphabetical order. Lesus ES, IS, GS, LS, RX, GX, LX progress in order, and I take it "S" means sedan and "X" designates SUVs. Volvo's size increases by number, just like Audi... and just like Infiniti is trying to do. Caddy: ATS (A for Alpha, the platform), CTS (C for Catera, the predecessor to the CTS), dead STS (S for Seville), dead DTS (D for Deville). SRX and XLR I can't call. And then there's Acura which makes no sense to me. The "L" stands for "Light", hardly an apt description of these vehicles. Also, in what way is Cadillac's "CTS" where the "C" stands for "Catera" meaningfully different from "MKZ" where the "Z" stands for "Zephyr"? And "R-G-L" isn't in any kind of order whatsoever. You can't make that work going in either direction. Finally, why do BMW & Mercedes get a pass now that their numbering has been divorced from engine displacement? Asserting that the Lincoln system falls short on any basis other than aesthetics is just silly. They're all arbitrary. Edited June 25, 2013 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Asserting that the Lincoln system falls short on any basis other than aesthetics is just silly. They're all arbitrary. Aesthetically is where I have the most problem with Lincoln's convention. There's no real elagant way to pronounce any of them. As for the numbers used by other manufacturers, I'd say most people rarely ever refer to them so they aren't that important. When people ask a BMW owner what he drives he'll probably respond with "A 3-series" as opposed to "A 328i" or "A 335xi". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Aesthetically is where I have the most problem with Lincoln's convention. There's no real elagant way to pronounce any of them. As for the numbers used by other manufacturers, I'd say most people rarely ever refer to them so they aren't that important. When people ask a BMW owner what he drives he'll probably respond with "A 3-series" as opposed to "A 328i" or "A 335xi". Your hitting on an important thing when it comes to Luxury buyers...they are buying it for nameplate cache, not model name...they want to own a BMW, it doesn't matter if its a 1 Series or an 8 Series...they are driving a BMW. Seriously, if you look at any car over 100K or so, people will call it by the company name, not its nameplate. I drive a Ferrari, Lamborghini etc etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Aesthetically is where I have the most problem with Lincoln's convention. There's no real elagant way to pronounce any of them. As for the numbers used by other manufacturers, I'd say most people rarely ever refer to them so they aren't that important. When people ask a BMW owner what he drives he'll probably respond with "A 3-series" as opposed to "A 328i" or "A 335xi". I agree, and would like to see Lincoln transition away from "MK" eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesster1228 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Does it really matter what manufacturers name their cars? I (unfortunately) had to go to a funeral over the weekend and while we were outside a small crowd formed around the MKS. Maybe it was its hulking size, the shiny 20" wheels, or the cinnamon metallic paint (compared to everyone else's silver & black cars) that brought them over. Absolutely no one paid attention to the 7-series, RX or RDX that were parked next to it. No one cared or probably even knew it was an MKS but they recognized the star on the grille and all I kept hearing was "Damn, that's a nice Lincoln!" It's the LINCOLN part that's important. And since all Lincolns start with MK then really all you have to remember is Z, X, S, or T (and Navigator, of course.) BTW, I so hate it when people refer to our Navi as an Escalade. Speaking of Caddies, I used to chuckle when the Seville STS first came out because STS was a trim name. So the Seville STS was actually a "Seville Seville Touring Sedan". And it got worse when they started badging the Eldorado Touring Coupe as the ETC. Et cetera, et cetera... And if Cadillac naming makes so much sense why is the CTS Coupe not called a CTC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I think Mazdas naming convention (For the 3, 5, and 6 anyway) works best, and is what Lincoln was hoping for (hence the TM for "Lincoln Mk_". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 The "L" stands for "Light", hardly an apt description of these vehicles. Also, in what way is Cadillac's "CTS" where the "C" stands for "Catera" meaningfully different from "MKZ" where the "Z" stands for "Zephyr"? And "R-G-L" isn't in any kind of order whatsoever. You can't make that work going in either direction. Finally, why do BMW & Mercedes get a pass now that their numbering has been divorced from engine displacement? Asserting that the Lincoln system falls short on any basis other than aesthetics is just silly. They're all arbitrary. Well, an SL is lighter than an S, but a GL is not lighter than a G, nor is a CL lighter than a C. So there's that inconsistency... but I also hear that they're fixing the last one by calling the CL an S-Class Coupe. At some point in the future... CTS = MKZ is fair. MKS for "MK Sedan" though? That's bordering on nebulous. And we love MKR, but what would the R stand for. You could separate the RX from the GX and LX since it's at its core a radically different vehicle. Of course, I'm speaking entirely about size designators with most of these cars. On engine displacement, I agree with you completely. Heck, even Infiniti had it right before they decided to Q everything up... Regarding Lincoln's system and Lincoln's system alone, though, I personally never confuse the models, but that's only because I allow myself to do 2 minutes of research so that I know that MKZ is smaller than MKS and MKC will be smaller than MKX is smaller than MKT... and Navigator. How come no one else brought up XF, XJ, then XK and F-Type? Anyone know what the English were thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Well, an SL is lighter than an S, but a GL is not lighter than a G, nor is a CL lighter than a C. So there's that inconsistency... but I also hear that they're fixing the last one by calling the CL an S-Class Coupe. At some point in the future... CTS = MKZ is fair. MKS for "MK Sedan" though? That's bordering on nebulous. And we love MKR, but what would the R stand for. You could separate the RX from the GX and LX since it's at its core a radically different vehicle. Of course, I'm speaking entirely about size designators with most of these cars. On engine displacement, I agree with you completely. Heck, even Infiniti had it right before they decided to Q everything up... Regarding Lincoln's system and Lincoln's system alone, though, I personally never confuse the models, but that's only because I allow myself to do 2 minutes of research so that I know that MKZ is smaller than MKS and MKC will be smaller than MKX is smaller than MKT... and Navigator. How come no one else brought up XF, XJ, then XK and F-Type? Anyone know what the English were thinking? MKZ ~ CTS; MKC ~ ATS; MKS, MKX ~ SRX Also, the R, G and L are all quite different from each other. The R is unibody, FWD sedan based, the G is BOF RWD truck based and the L is RWD unibody (AFAIK) and not shared with any truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) To me XTS is Cadillac's best effort yet but at $62,000 the TTV6 is purely out of reach for most potential buyers, huh, maybe Cadillac is concerned that an aggressively priced XTS TTV6 would cannibalize CTS TTV6 sales? I still don't see a Cadillac answer to the MKS Ecoboost, hopefully the CD4 version brings MKS back in focus..... Edited June 25, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) MKZ ~ CTS; MKC ~ ATS; MKS, MKX ~ SRX Also, the R, G and L are all quite different from each other. The R is unibody, FWD sedan based, the G is BOF RWD truck based and the L is RWD unibody (AFAIK) and not shared with any truck. GX = Land Cruiser Prado in other markets LX = Land Cruiser plus "L" badges (in other words, BOF) Also, good call on MKC ~ ATS. Perfectly legit. Edited June 25, 2013 by papilgee4evaeva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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