Lincoln MKZ Hybrid tested by C&D

[Project-Fairmont]

I like this car since it is a more polished, upscale version of the very good Fusion - actual desirability.

[03 LS]

They even went out of their way to say the suspension design was the same and then barely mentioning the Lincoln Ride Control in the next paragraph. They also forgot to mention standard LED headlamps and a few other features that set it apart from the Fusion.

...

The truth is somewhere in between. Can Lincoln do more to differentiate the MKZ? Of course and they should. But does that mean the current MKZ is as bad as some reviewers make it out to be? Of course not.

If you have to list things that are different between '13 MKZ Hybrid and '13 Fusion Hybrid, you already lost.

 

Ford's (Farley's) Lincoln Strategy can be summed up as, while we acknowledge Lincoln products are based on Ford platforms, but please compare Lincoln to other Luxury brands, because that's who Lincoln is competing against. Lincoln is not all there yet, but it will get there, one product at a time.

 

In that context, even the "new" Lincoln Experience, was not meant to set Lincoln further apart from Ford, but was aimed to catch up with other luxury brands, whose customers are already experiencing it, and are expecting it when they set foot in a Lincoln showroom.

 

If you look at the early '13 MKZ Hybrid buyers, just go to the MKZ tracking thread on this site, you will see most of them are not Ford (old Lincoln) upgrades, most of them were coming from those other luxury brands, and coming to Lincoln for the very first time.

 

The Lincoln Strategy seems to be working, if you have compelling products.

 

And MKZ Hybrid is such compelling product. It's beautiful and luxurious, far superior than Lexus hybrid offerings, or the non-offerings from other luxury brands. For the luxury car buyers who want a hybrid, they see it, they like what they see. And they are coming, cash in hand.

 

Of course, Fusion Hybrid is also a great, compelling product. But, Farley, of all people, knows better. His target customers for Lincoln will not buy a Ford, as great as Fusion Hybrid is. That's why Lincoln exists.

Edited August 22, 2013 by 03 LS

[papilgee4evaeva]

It's like I just read the C&D article all over again...

[Deanh]

Exactly....there is no credence to what they are writing...it seems like the basic template for writing a Lincoln review is mention its Ford platform mate with in the first two paragraphs of the review...yet Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, and others all get a free pass when it comes to platform sharing.

well, lets get real, the Fusion chassis has been universally lauded, so when under a Lincoln, its a bad thing??????

[hermans]

My opinion is C&D along with CR is full of Communists and Ratbastards......

[lost1]

ditto, Ratbastards

[EBFlex]

I guess the guy that died and made you King of Credibility also made you the Supreme Judge of What is Good in Car Reviews.

 

Or are you just passing off your prejudices as fact?

 

Don't you have anything better to do than to be the forum bully?

 

Quit taking the internet so seriously. The writer gave his opinion and brought up some issues with the car. You don't like those facts that were brought up so you immediately dismiss the review as 'garbage'.

[Iiari]

If you have to list things that are different between '13 MKZ Hybrid and '13 Fusion Hybrid, you already lost.

 

Ford's (Farley's) Lincoln Strategy can be summed up as, while we acknowledge Lincoln products are based on Ford platforms, but please compare Lincoln to other Luxury brands, because that's who Lincoln is competing against. Lincoln is not all there yet, but it will get there, one product at a time.

 

In that context, even the "new" Lincoln Experience, was not meant to set Lincoln further apart from Ford, but was aimed to catch up with other luxury brands, whose customers are already experiencing it, and are expecting it when they set foot in a Lincoln showroom.

 

If you look at the early '13 MKZ Hybrid buyers, just go to the MKZ tracking thread on this site, you will see most of them are not Ford (old Lincoln) upgrades, most of them were coming from those other luxury brands, and coming to Lincoln for the very first time.

 

The Lincoln Strategy seems to be working, if you have compelling products.

 

And MKZ Hybrid is such compelling product. It's beautiful and luxurious, far superior than Lexus hybrid offerings, or the non-offerings from other luxury brands. For the luxury car buyers who want a hybrid, they see it, they like what they see. And they are coming, cash in hand.

 

Of course, Fusion Hybrid is also a great, compelling product. But, Farley, of all people, knows better. His target customers for Lincoln will not buy a Ford, as great as Fusion Hybrid is. That's why Lincoln exists.

 

Funny post, and quite true .

[ZanatWork]

Given that you have admitted that you're all about the numbers, aka a "bean counter", doesn't do anything to pump your "linguistics resume", nor your credibility when it comes to car reviews. Just as you think C/D should buy thousands before their opinions are worth much to Ford, a bean counter whose entire known automotive journalism career seems to be nattering at posters on a Ford board isn't really make for a credible source in auto review critiques.

Ford has received many criticisms across many publications for the all-too-obvious Ford product under the Lincoln dressing. It's not new, especially to those of us who've been reading the same complaints forever.

As to the effects on sales, Ford has a bottom-ranked car for quality (CMAX) and their infotainment system is seemingly despised by the universe while Ford continues showing good sales and profits. As much as anyone may agree or disagree with the review or any review, styling, loyalty, and other factors have a ton to do with sales regardless what C/D or CR says.

Yes, I agree with C/D...to an extent. On the other hand, I'm glad to see MKZ sales staying up. The very good news for Lincoln is that the Fords under the skin are very solid vehicles. The bad news is that the Lincolns are going to be compared to less-expensive options potentially on the same dealership floor until Lincoln gets more differentiation. Until that happens, the same complaints, which have legitimacy, will continue. Likewise, as long as sales stay healthy, the "fixes" can be done with more time and thoroughness.

I guess the guy that died and made you King of Credibility also made you the Supreme Judge of What is Good in Car Reviews.

 

Or are you just passing off your prejudices as fact?

[ZanatWork]

Given that the Focus, the Mustang, and other Fords get into C/D's "10 Best" pretty regularly, I guess you hate those cars...?

I have no use for CR, and I don't see C/D as being universally right, but the whining about every bad review a Ford gets around here is kinda sad.

My opinion is C&D along with CR is full of Communists and Ratbastards......

[silvrsvt]

Don't you have anything better to do than to be the forum bully?

 

Quit taking the internet so seriously. The writer gave his opinion and brought up some issues with the car. You don't like those facts that were brought up so you immediately dismiss the review as 'garbage'.

 

Maybe if you didn't troll like you do here....and why take issue with it? this is a Ford centric (and Lincoln) message board...what do you expect?

 

[hermans]

Given that the Focus, the Mustang, and other Fords get into C/D's "10 Best" pretty regularly, I guess you hate those cars...?

 

I have no use for CR, and I don't see C/D as being universally right, but the whining about every bad review a Ford gets around here is kinda sad.

Who said I was whining? I have had and currently own quite of number of Fords...Mustangs included. I think the automotive "journalist" have an agenda - they want their articles to sell magazines so they can get the nod to write more articles. This in turns ups their "creditability" so they can make more money. Again, they have an agenda. I know how this business works.

Edited August 23, 2013 by hermans

[Hugh]

Ford has received many criticisms across many publications for the all-too-obvious Ford product under the Lincoln dressing. It's not new, especially to those of us who've been reading the same complaints forever.

 

 

 

The very good news for Lincoln is that the Fords under the skin are very solid vehicles. The bad news is that the Lincolns are going to be compared to less-expensive options potentially on the same dealership floor until Lincoln gets more differentiation. Until that happens, the same complaints, which have legitimacy, will continue. Likewise, as long as sales stay healthy, the "fixes" can be done with more time and thoroughness.

So you say. That argument is not worth the bits used to type it. If the 2 are too-obvious then things being relative so is ALL the car companies in business today! Suppliers supply companies who share parts and compete against each other. It is an elitist rubbish statement taking internet and print and wasting O2 that Lincoln is not different enough yet continue to produce NO ALTERNATIVE BUSINESS CASE! Yeah you Zan! We've been down this road before. Too-obvious? BULL@%$T! The constant sniping at the mother company is just plain stupid.

Writers are just that writers. After driving different cars they have the audacity to think they know how to run a company?

 

http://www.autos.ca/first-drives/quick-spin-2013-lincoln-mkz-hybrid/

 

The review was favorable and non-gushing. Because it didn't mention it's twin, they must be shilling for the man or just dumb eh?

[Hugh]

Given that the Focus, the Mustang, and other Fords get into C/D's "10 Best" pretty regularly, I guess you hate those cars...?

 

To be fair, what other Ford's?

[Hugh]

Don't you have anything better to do than to be the forum bully?

 

Quit taking the internet so seriously. The writer gave his opinion and brought up some issues with the car. You don't like those facts that were brought up so you immediately dismiss the review as 'garbage'.

1. That is not bullying.\

2. Don't tell others how to take conversations, you don't have that control.

3. The 'facts' you use are petty snipes to rub in peoples faces and you dress them up as insight. That is trolling.

4. Those 'facts' you call them are garbage because they are trite, effete and have no relevance.

[papilgee4evaeva]

I have no use for CR, and I don't see C/D as being universally right, but the whining about every bad review a Ford gets around here is kinda sad.

 

Personally, I have no problem with a bad review as long as it's fair one.

 

But when you start off a review with "it's a tarted up Ford," fairness goes out the window.

 

Like I've already said (as well as others), if C&D treated Acura, Audi, Bentley, Buick, Cadillac, Infiniti, Lexus, and Lincoln all the same with respect to their models that share platforms with their volume/mainstream brands by {a} either harping on EVERY brand's more plebeian roots or by {b} only mentioning them in passing it at all, then I think this board would be a more peaceful place.

 

But they don't.

 

With regards to this particular thread, It's not at all about anyone disagreeing with the review for the sake of the review. It's about decent and fair journalism.

Edited August 23, 2013 by papilgee4evaeva

[RichardJensen]

The writer gave his opinion-- You don't like those facts

 

What are they? Facts or opinions? Do you know the difference between a fact, an assertion and an opinion?

[akirby]

What are they? Facts or opinions? Do you know the difference between a fact, an assertion and an opinion?

 

That's a rhetorical question, right?

[RichardJensen]

Given that you have admitted that you're all about the numbers, aka a "bean counter", doesn't do anything to pump your "linguistics resume"

 

 

The person on this forum that knows the most about that subject (linguistics) has not broadcast his qualifications. But I assure you, they exceed yours.

 

I consider it highly probable that *my* rather minuscule knowledge of linguistics exceeds yours.

Edited August 23, 2013 by RichardJensen

[EBFlex]

Maybe if you didn't troll like you do here....and why take issue with it? this is a Ford centric (and Lincoln) message board...what do you expect?

 

Is that what you call it when you don't agree with someone? It's not trolling by any stretch of the definition

 

1. That is not bullying.\

2. Don't tell others how to take conversations, you don't have that control.

3. The 'facts' you use are petty snipes to rub in peoples faces and you dress them up as insight. That is trolling.

4. Those 'facts' you call them are garbage because they are trite, effete and have no relevance.

 

Points 1 through 4 couldn't be more wrong. But I'll try and be more careful next time I post facts so as not to offend despite being completely germane to the conversation. I'm gathering quickly that no matter how true it actually is, bad news is actually not true around here. And anyone that posts something that does not show Ford in the absolute best light is a troll and a negatard.

[silvrsvt]

Points 1 through 4 couldn't be more wrong. But I'll try and be more careful next time I post facts so as not to offend despite being completely germane to the conversation. I'm gathering quickly that no matter how true it actually is, bad news is actually not true around here. And anyone that posts something that does not show Ford in the absolute best light is a troll and a negatard.

 

No but being an idiot about it like you have been here...if the suit fits...wear it.

 

I've already stated that someone needs to be fired/demoted/etc because of the C-Max Fiasco using the Fusion Hybrid MPG numbers.

[akirby]

But I'll try and be more careful next time I post facts

 

I don't think you know the difference between a fact and an opinion.

[papilgee4evaeva]

I don't think you know the difference between a fact and an opinion.

 

Established weeks ago.

[ZanatWork]

Oh, good grief...why did you even bother posting that?

Are you saying the MKX isn't a tarted-up Edge...obviously? Same hardware, almost identical profile, and so obviously related that posters as well as journalists all remarked on it...still do. DItto the Taurus/MKS.

I'm aware, very aware, of shared components in vehicles. In fact, it's why I got to help in writing buyer's guides during my auto parts period. I've known how that works since Ford's Fox platform and GM's A-platforms were commonplace in the market...which predates this period by a long way.

Some companies can share components, but differentiate the vehicle experiences. This problem, and the resulting dismal sales, are why we've had "should Ford close Lincoln?" stories for YEARS. That's not elitism, that's looking at obvious rebadges and terrible sales and having a valid point.

The same problems contributed to the deaths of Plymouth, Pontiac, and yeah, Mercury...who Lincoln is compared to repeatedly.

The authors don't create the sales reports, sparky. They don't make vehicles that are far too similar to less-expensive versions from the same company. While some authors are better than others, just like in every field, the story remains the same: Lincoln needs to create a different ownership and driving experience in its products. Some of that is styling, some of that is interior, but the whole product's identity needs to be something beyond the luxurious potential of the Taurus/Flex/Fusion/Expedition/etc.

It's not about creating an alternative business case, component sharing is a necessity in today's market. It's about doing it better...and maybe the story won't be about a whole division of Ford that has trouble outselling the Mustang alone.

So you say. That argument is not worth the bits used to type it. If the 2 are too-obvious then things being relative so is ALL the car companies in business today! Suppliers supply companies who share parts and compete against each other. It is an elitist rubbish statement taking internet and print and wasting O2 that Lincoln is not different enough yet continue to produce NO ALTERNATIVE BUSINESS CASE! Yeah you Zan! We've been down this road before. Too-obvious? BULL@%$T! The constant sniping at the mother company is just plain stupid.

Writers are just that writers. After driving different cars they have the audacity to think they know how to run a company?

 

http://www.autos.ca/first-drives/quick-spin-2013-lincoln-mkz-hybrid/

 

The review was favorable and non-gushing. Because it didn't mention it's twin, they must be shilling for the man or just dumb eh?

[ZanatWork]

Just as I'm pretty certain my extensive studies in Communications (a shared major) could make that an interesting conversation.

The person on this forum that knows the most about that subject (linguistics) has not broadcast his qualifications. But I assure you, they exceed yours.

 

I consider it highly probable that *my* rather minuscule knowledge of linguistics exceeds yours.