2015 MKX

[03 LS]

 

look at it this way, buick sold 30k encores in North america, and 70k in china.

 

what is a better investment for Lincoln a mid-sized car that sell 45k world wide or a smaller car that can sell 100k world wide. It maybe difficult for Lincoln to go global if is only focused on cars for the US market.

 

 

Hold on there.

Lincoln will be officially selling MKZ and MKC in China later this year. How do you know MKZ won't double its volume after a full year in China? I'm not so sure that MKC # for China will equal USA #, but that's probably capacity restrained, at the beginning. For true comparison, we'll have to wait until the Lincoln production in China is at full speed (ZERO NOW).

 

So, Buick built Encore. Lincoln built MKC. Which one you would rather have? Which one Ford would rather have?

Don't say both, one at a time, Lincoln is taking baby steps.

 

One thing I do agree with you, though, the early dismissal of a Lincoln C car was probably a mistake. If they had greenlighted a Lincoln Focus, even as late as when they killed Mercury (not rebadging the Tracer but start anew), we probably are only a year or two away from production by now.

[Kris Kolman]

If Lincoln were to build a smaller car a C-Max based vehicle seems the logical place... I would absolutely be interested in something along the lines of the BMW 2-Series Active Tourer. But in saying so I think the importance of such a vehicle is in overseas markets. As such a followup 2nd wave introduction after the MKC/MKZ/MKX would seem to work better. Ideally such a 2nd wave would have to include a new MKS to not be interpreted as a "small and cheap" marketing drive, but part of organic growth. When you include the need to improve the MKTs performance in North America the MKS and MKT need to take the development front seat.

[silvrsvt]

how is Lincoln more than a higher trim level ford? Lincoln shares more with ford than Buick does with other GM products.

 

Buick=limited/titanium trims on Ford products.

[wish4newstang]

I visit this site often. Enjoy the dialog. I would like to give my opinion on Lincoln. I went to the Columbus Auto Show today. I didn't expect the size of the show. It was great. Ford had nice display. New Mustang and New F150, s you would expect. After ford I searched out Lincoln. To say I was disappointed would be an understatement. Off in the corner, bad lighting. If Lincoln is trying to reestablish the brand, they didn't do it there. It was if Lincoln was just an after thought. Chrysler had a huge display, Buick/GMC was nice. Cadillac display was bright, very welcoming. I say this because I would think an area like Columbus would be a great market for Lincoln. I really think someone, anyone would say this is not how we want Lincoln portrayed. Just my thoughts

[akirby]

Most of the regional auto shows are put on by the local dealers. Ford/Lincoln corporate may not have been involved.

[hbalek]

I visit this site often. Enjoy the dialog. I would like to give my opinion on Lincoln. I went to the Columbus Auto Show today. I didn't expect the size of the show. It was great. Ford had nice display. New Mustang and New F150, s you would expect. After ford I searched out Lincoln. To say I was disappointed would be an understatement. Off in the corner, bad lighting. If Lincoln is trying to reestablish the brand, they didn't do it there. It was if Lincoln was just an after thought. Chrysler had a huge display, Buick/GMC was nice. Cadillac display was bright, very welcoming. I say this because I would think an area like Columbus would be a great market for Lincoln. I really think someone, anyone would say this is not how we want Lincoln portrayed. Just my thoughts

 

I was at Lincoln display at Detroit, D.C. and Baltimore recently and they had IMPRESSIVE displays at all 3, especially the first 2 shows!!!!

[2b2]

^ GOOD to hear, hbalek!

 

Most of the regional auto shows are put on by the local dealers. Ford/Lincoln corporate may not have been involved.

afaik, if the not-in-production-yet Mustang and F-150 were there

FoMoCo *was* involved

[akirby]

^ GOOD to hear, hbalek!

 

afaik, if the not-in-production-yet Mustang and F-150 were there

FoMoCo *was* involved

 

True but the local dealers may have still been in charge of the actual exhibit, meaning that Ford/Lincoln did not have a say in what the Lincoln exhibit looked like.

[grbeck]

At the Washington, D.C., show in February, there was a very nice Lincoln display featuring the new MKC, which is a very handsome vehicle. The Lincoln display was on a separate floor from the huge Ford display, which featured the 2015 F-150 and Mustang, along with the new Edge prototype.

[hbalek]

At the Washington, D.C., show in February, there was a very nice Lincoln display featuring the new MKC, which is a very handsome vehicle. The Lincoln display was on a separate floor from the huge Ford display, which featured the 2015 F-150 and Mustang, along with the new Edge prototype.

All of the luxury brands were on a separate floor than the mainstream brands at the dc show.

[Biker16]

Buick=limited/titanium trims on Ford products.

How deluded are you.

 

Name one standalone Lincoln product that doesn't share a wheelbase with a Ford product?

 

Lincoln is closer to Buick than it is to Cadillac.

 

 

[NickF1011]

How deluded are you.

 

Name one standalone Lincoln product that doesn't share a wheelbase with a Ford product?

 

Lincoln is closer to Buick than it is to Cadillac.

 

 

OMG! They share a wheelbase!

 

So are you proposing they change the wheelbases on them for the sake of making them different?

[silvrsvt]

How deluded are you.

 

Name one standalone Lincoln product that doesn't share a wheelbase with a Ford product?

 

Lincoln is closer to Buick than it is to Cadillac.

 

 

And yor point being? Lincoln is still a better luxury car then Buick asprires to be...thus why its no better then a higher trim level Ford product.

[akirby]

How deluded are you.

 

Name one standalone Lincoln product that doesn't share a wheelbase with a Ford product?

 

Lincoln is closer to Buick than it is to Cadillac.

 

 

Not as delusional as you are. Has nothing to do with wheelbase - it has to do with styling, performance and features and the Ford Titaniums are just as good as the Buicks in that regard - sometimes better.

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

there is a consensus on this forum that Lincoln doesn't need small cars, I think they are wrong since every other luxury brand is make small cars now.

I think we would all agree that the perception of Lincoln as a luxury brand, and it's share of the lucrative luxury market are both way lower than what is desirable. Rebuilding this situation by first going downmarket seems counterproductive. However, stand-alone Lincoln dealers need some volume soon and the MK*rapbox (can you really tune and insulate something that is mostly a jacked-up Focus into a true luxury vehicle?) and other "C" platform derived thingys could help that. I'd much rather see a Lincoln Motor Company that exceeds the strategy of benchmarking Lexus versions of just-above-entry level Toyotas, though.

[Edstock]

can you really tune and insulate something that is mostly a jacked-up Focus into a true luxury vehicle?

 

Yes, you can. The key is that the top hat is completely different. In the same way, Porsche creates a Macan from the platform that is the VW Tiguan and the Audi Q5.

 

What would make a MK more competitive would be AWD. As it is, I do not know if the current Focus platform is AWD-capable.

[akirby]

 

Yes, you can. The key is that the top hat is completely different. In the same way, Porsche creates a Macan from the platform that is the VW Tiguan and the Audi Q5.

 

What would make a MK more competitive would be AWD. As it is, I do not know if the current Focus platform is AWD-capable.

 

I've heard the platform is capable but the current factory is not (e.g. the end of the line dyno is FWD only).

[Biker16]

OMG! They share a wheelbase!

 

So are you proposing they change the wheelbases on them for the sake of making them different?

Wheelbase is an analogy for the fact Lincoln shares everything with a ford product. Ford believe it can build a luxury brand on a shoestring budget, without RWD, without products that can Challenge the class best, and without the enough product change perception of the brand.

 

Outside of this forum people don't believe Lincolns are anything but tarted up Ford's.

 

And yor point being? Lincoln is still a better luxury car then Buick asprires to be...thus why its no better then a higher trim level Ford product.

I am sorry, how is Lincoln a better luxury car than Buick?

 

features? Performance?

 

 

Not as delusional as you are. Has nothing to do with wheelbase - it has to do with styling, performance and features and the Ford Titaniums are just as good as the Buicks in that regard - sometimes better.

For example how is the styling and performance of a mkx, mot, or navigator better than their ford counterpart?

 

BTW no one is disputing that Cadillac is better than Lincoln just that Lincoln is better than Buick.

 

It is the equivoent of saying we suck but we dont suck as much as that guy.

 

Or

 

The Clevelander saying at least we don't live in Detroit.

 

Or

 

Someone saying "I'm short but at least I'm not a midget"

 

Either way just because you don't suck as much as the other guy that doesn't make you cool.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Biker16

[akirby]

If you bother to look at features, performance and price it should be obvious that Ford Titaniums are competitive with Buick and Lincolns are better with more performance and more features and more luxury. Cadillac has better pure performance and better styling at the moment but that will be changing.

 

And saying that Lincoln isn't better than Cadillac has nothing to do with Titaniums being better than Buicks which is true even if you don't want to admit it.

[silvrsvt]

Outside of this forum people don't believe Lincolns are anything but tarted up Ford's.

 

Thats a perception thats going to take years to change...just like the best selling Lexus models are nothing more then tarted up Toyotas...or Buicks are tarted up Chevys.

[ANTAUS]

Lincolns biggest issue is the perception people have over what they are about 'Tarted up Fords'. Its very hard to find a new car review that doesnt already state that at some point. YES...WE....us HERE know some of these differences, but the customer is the jury, we can only play defense for so long. So maybe create products that do not resemble their Ford counterparts, hmm is it working for the MKZ, or new MKC? I think jury is still out on that, or these can be seen as some good steps.

 

I will say this, with all my 3 LS's, I was never asked "is that the same as a Ford ______?". Yet hours within getting my MKX, already I had one person "Thats the same as the Ford Edge right?".

[NickF1011]

Wheelbase is an analogy for the fact Lincoln shares everything with a ford product. Ford believe it can build a luxury brand on a shoestring budget, without RWD, without products that can Challenge the class best, and without the enough product change perception of the brand.

 

I'm under the impression that that is only how Ford plans to revitalize the brand to the point where it is stable and profitable enough before it goes after RWD products that can challenge the best in the world. Taking that tremendous leap now, without any of the brand cachet or perception to go along with it, would be a recipe for failure. It seems to be working so far as dealers seem to be happier. MKC will be another huge step in that direction toward stability. That's the biggest priority for Lincoln right now -- something it hasn't had for decades.

[NickF1011]

I will say this, with all my 3 LS's, I was never asked "is that the same as a Ford ______?". Yet hours within getting my MKX, already I had one person "Thats the same as the Ford Edge right?".

 

I doubt people will be getting much of that about the MKC. The MKX, of course. It is a tarted up Edge and shares most of the same sheet metal save the front fenders and hood.

Edited March 19, 2014 by NickF1011

[akirby]

The only people who rant about "tarted up Fords" are the media and negatards. People actually looking to purchase a car will look at all vehicles that meet their criteria.

 

The problem with current Lincolns is they're not very attractive outside of the MKZ and they're not heavily discounted. The MKC should do well as will the new vehicles as long as they provide the style and flair and service that luxury buyers expect.

[NickF1011]

The only people who rant about "tarted up Fords" are the media and negatards. People actually looking to purchase a car will look at all vehicles that meet their criteria.

 

The problem with current Lincolns is they're not very attractive outside of the MKZ and they're not heavily discounted. The MKC should do well as will the new vehicles as long as they provide the style and flair and service that luxury buyers expect.

 

Eh, MKX is attractive in my eyes, but currently too similar to the Edge. Seems like a safe assumption that won't be the case with the next generation. If it's different enough, it could appear on my Edge replacement list. Maybe...

Edited March 19, 2014 by NickF1011