Unclear if Aluminum is an Advantage for F150

[ANTAUS]

http://wardsauto.com/auto-makers/unclear-whether-ford-gained-advantage-over-industry-aluminum-f-150-experts-say

[akirby]

 

Additionally, some automakers feel alternative powertrains, such as diesel engines or electrification, could negate the need for significant lightweighting.

 

No matter what type of powertrain you use, a lighter weight will always be better.

[fordmantpw]

No matter what type of powertrain you use, a lighter weight will always be better.

 

That's exactly what I thought when reading that. If a diesel or electrification is good in a steel body, it should be great in an Aluminum body, right? Your benefits are compounded.

 

And the following quote is great. I guess they don't realize that Ford trucks have been 2-300 lbs. heavier than GM trucks for the past 10+ years anyway due to the stronger, stiffer frame.

 

 

 

He points to GM’s new pickups, the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra, as examples of how advanced steels can cut weight. The new Silverado, he says, is 350 lbs. (159 kg) lighter than the current F-150 because of higher use of advanced steel. Although Ford is saying its upcoming truck will be 700 lbs. (318 kg) lighter than the current one, that means it will weigh only 350 lbs. less than today’s Silverado.

[RichardJensen]

Let's be honest here:

 

The real experts in full size trucks work for Ford.

[lfeg]

Just as a point of reference, on my pickup I really only notice a drop in fuel mileage when I increase the load carried by about 1000 lb. Putting a light but tall load in the bed (one that extends above the roof of the cab) is a much bigger hit.

 

Weight reduction can get you some benefit, but aerodynamics is where significant gains are, and there is much work going on in that area.

 

Not that I am against reducing weight, as that increases payload.

[jpvbs]

The end goal isn't lightness itself, it is improved MPGs. It doesn't matter how much more or less the F150 weighs than a GM truck, only the results mean anything. Dropping 700lbs will absolutely improve the F150 MPGs. Even with their current weight advantage, GM trucks are basically the same as Ford's MPG numbers. When the F150 frops 700lbs, plus improved aero (assumed with new vehicle), plus improved engines, GM doesn't stand a chance.

[fordmantpw]

Just as a point of reference, on my pickup I really only notice a drop in fuel mileage when I increase the load carried by about 1000 lb. Putting a light but tall load in the bed (one that extends above the roof of the cab) is a much bigger hit.

 

Weight reduction can get you some benefit, but aerodynamics is where significant gains are, and there is much work going on in that area.

 

Not that I am against reducing weight, as that increases payload.

 

You are talking highway speeds. In the city, the opposite is true...weight matters and aero doesn't. The combined numbers that are used are a combination of the two.

 

With that said, I would hazard a guess that your MPG changes by more than you realize. You just don't run full-tank comparisons with that load in the bed. Most highways aren't completely flat, and there are hills to go up and down. And you don't just magically get to 65 MPH and stay there all day.

 

Weight decrease gives you several advantages:

 

• Better acceleration, better braking
• More payload
• Less friction losses nearly everywhere. Less weight on tires, bearings, etc. means fewer frictional losses
• Allows use of smaller engines for the same performance, which in turn increases MPG
• Since the truck isn't carrying the extra weight all the time, you can use slightly lighter components, which in turn ripples down
• Many more...

Once you start combining all of these things together (and I don't know if Ford has gone that far with the '15 F150, or if that will be a 'phase 2' coming in a few years), your improvements start showing up everywhere. It's not just shedding 700 lbs that makes a difference. It's all the other things you can improve since you no longer have to carry that 700 lbs around.

[akirby]

Just as a point of reference, on my pickup I really only notice a drop in fuel mileage when I increase the load carried by about 1000 lb. Putting a light but tall load in the bed (one that extends above the roof of the cab) is a much bigger hit.

 

Weight reduction can get you some benefit, but aerodynamics is where significant gains are, and there is much work going on in that area.

 

That's more true at highway speeds. At lower speeds weight is the predominant factor not aerodynamics.

[akirby]

 

You are talking highway speeds. In the city, the opposite is true...weight matters and aero doesn't.

 

 

 

That's more true at highway speeds. At lower speeds weight is the predominant factor not aerodynamics.

 

Dammit. One minute too slow.......

[fordmantpw]

Is there an echo in here?

[akirby]

Is there an echo in here?

[fordmantpw]

Quack quack!

[akirby]

(silence)............................

[Bryan1]

Ford tested the bed with a steel drum test, bouncing the drums into the bed. The aluminum bed did better than the steel. Advantage Aluminum.

[Biker16]

Let's be honest here:

 

The real experts in full size trucks work for Ford.

huh?

[RichardJensen]

huh?

 

Let's see. Am I going to trust "industry experts" or am I going to trust the unnamed professionals who engineer the best selling vehicle in the US?

 

Hmm....... Which one of these groups has put their butt on the line and delivered both profits and high quality product?

 

Which one of these groups should be given the benefit of the doubt based on their record in the field?

 

Yeah. I'm pretty sure that when "industry experts" proffer an opinion that conflicts with what Ford is doing with the F150, I'm going to give Ford the benefit of the doubt.

 

Kind of like when you say that Ford is succumbing to the innovator's dilemma because they're going to sell the EcoSport here later rather than sooner.

[RichardJensen]

Kind of like that 'aviation expert' who said that there was no way the Malaysian jet could've transmitted signals from over the Indian Ocean....

 

Ooooh. I'm an expert. I talked to someone with CNN. Therefore, I know more than people who are accountable for the things they do.

[jpd80]

The primary focus of a lighter F150 is to safe guard the entire F150 range against ever increasing CAFE limits,

Ford's competitors are still to do that, instead opting for "work arounds" like diesel and 8-speed transmissions.

Ford gets to the core of the problem (weight) and repositions 6-speed auto trucks as fuel economy leaders

which sets them up for future improvements with new transmissions, and passive/active hybrid options.

 

Anyone who looks at the '15 F150 and thinks it's not in clear air compared to competitors is simply ignoring reality,

The presses, stamps and robots for body construction needed changing anyway, so this was the perfect break in

product cycle to achieve a quantum change, making the switch to aluminum an affordable proposition an

incremental increase over following the industry standard of a HT steel body.

 

Leaders lead.

Edited March 14, 2014 by jpd80

[Edstock]

And when the new 9-10-? speed transmissions arrive, maybe they'll offer a short bed basic cab with the EB 1.0? Just listen to that sucker shift . . . might work, if all you ever carry are styrofoam packing cheezies.

[jpd80]

And when the new 9-10-? speed transmissions arrive, maybe they'll offer a short bed basic cab with the EB 1.0? Just listen to that sucker shift . . . might work, if all you ever carry are styrofoam packing cheezies.

Or you could use the 1.0 EB as a "range extender" generator for an EV F150..... kinda like Volt on steroids....

Edited March 15, 2014 by jpd80

[RangerM]

How much does the paint weigh? If Ford could make the panels without visible marring, a "just metal" finish could look pretty badass on an F-150.

[4d4evr-1]

Or you could use the 1.0 EB as a "range extender" generator for an EV F150..... kinda like Volt on steroids....

You and Richard stated all that needed to be said...... Leaders Lead

[ford4v429]

my biggest worry is the aluminum hoods being produced on the mustangs still have paint blistering issues a decade into it. either they cant or dont think they need to fix that, either way if every panel on the f150 starts bubbling like a mustang hood from poor hem prep, its gonna hit harder than ever

[jpvbs]

How much does the paint weigh? If Ford could make the panels without visible marring, a "just metal" finish could look pretty badass on an F-150.

 

I don't know about the weight, but I can imagine someone showing up at SEMA with a fighter plane themed F150 with polished bodywork. Or Ford themselves might put something together as a marketing piece as a tie in to the "military spec" aluminum they have been talking about.

 

Edited March 15, 2014 by jpvbs

[Kris Kolman]

Airlines have played with the idea of not painting planes for weight savings in relation of fuel costs. American wrongly is thought to have not painted its airplane because of fuel savings.. But in truth that was because their CEO liked the look of an unpainted airplane. Other airlines that have looked into it found out the costs to polish and strip the airplane regularly to keep the look exceeded the fuel saving. The American fuel cost justification was as such marketing myth, and the "New" American has quietly started painting its airplanes with silver paint to avoid the regular stripping.

 

So yes an unpainted F150 would have less weight.. But you would have to put a sealer on top of the metal as AL does oxidize. The difference for a large plane like a 777 is ~450lb for a full paint job and ~50lb for just sealer.