fxcomet Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Peter over at Autoextremist is all but playing taps for GM. He's being a bit over the top as usual, but he often has a pretty good finger on the pulse over there. But is this any different from Ford's Explorer tire debacle or Toyota "hidden acceleration"? I suppose time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) That's a bit over the top, even for Mr. DeLorenzo. He makes a lot of accusations (for example, Akerson left GM solely because he knew that this was coming) without providing any real proof. Having read DeLorenzo's columns for over a decade now, I've always figured that his real beef with Akerson was that the latter didn't ask him for advice on how to run the corporation. DeLorenzo's columns are always ultimately about DeLorenzo. The real problem with GM is that the bailout and quasi-bankruptcy process essentially short-circuited the change in corporate culture that GM desperately needed, and still needs. The ignition switch fiasco, along the with corporation's confused response to the Ram outselling the Silverado for one month, show that a culture of arrogance and sloppiness still reign at GM headquarters. Some of GM's pricing decisions also leave me scratching my head. I stopped by the Chevrolet dealer yesterday, and looked at two 2015 Tahoes on the lot. One stickered at $68,000, the other at $72,000! I realize that GM's big SUVs are good vehicles with a proven audience, but $72,000 for a Chevrolet Tahoe?! GM has real problems, but it's way too soon to be playing Taps for the company. GM will survive the ignition switch fiasco. What should really concern people, in addition to the pricing issue I noted, is that the corporation has now launched botched vehicles in two critical segments - the Malibu, and the Silverado/Sierra. GM apparently lavished a lot of attention and resources on the new rear-wheel-drive Cadillacs. The Cadillac ATS and CTS may please the enthusiasts, but they aren't setting the world on fire. The big pickups pay many of the bills, while a full-line automaker cannot "phone in" an entry for the family sedan segment. The lack of focus on core products and unrealistic pricing are the big problems, both of which ultimately point to problems with GM's corporate culture. Edited April 7, 2014 by grbeck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxcomet Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 I agree. The pricing nonsense applies to the Cadillac ELR as well, also in the mid $70's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I agree. The pricing nonsense applies to the Cadillac ELR as well, also in the mid $70's. That one is probably more accurate. The Volt would probably be close to that based on the actual vehicle cost. Batteries aren't cheap and there are only 2 vehicles on that platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Some of GM's pricing decisions also leave me scratching my head. I stopped by the Chevrolet dealer yesterday, and looked at two 2015 Tahoes on the lot. One stickered at $68,000, the other at $72,000! I realize that GM's big SUVs are good vehicles with a proven audience, but $72,000 for a Chevrolet Tahoe?! Makes you wonder what the pricing is going to be on the Eslcade is going to be! Or they are building in a 20K off rebate at that price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I could only get a King Ranch expedition EL up to $63K with every possible option. $72K for a Tahoe seems crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I could only get a King Ranch expedition EL up to $63K with every possible option. $72K for a Tahoe seems crazy. Frankly, that's also because the Expedition is outdated and doesn't offer many of the features available on Tahoe now, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Frankly, that's also because the Expedition is outdated and doesn't offer many of the features available on Tahoe now, unfortunately. I'm not up to date on the Tahoe, but what does it offer that the Expy does not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I'm not up to date on the Tahoe, but what does it offer that the Expy does not? This ^^^^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I'm not up to date on the Tahoe, but what does it offer that the Expy does not? a bowtie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 From an autoblog review today. Their escalade testers sticker was $84k. http://m.autoblog.com/2014/04/07/2015-cadillac-escalade-review-first-drive/?icid=autoblog_dl_article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I'm not up to date on the Tahoe, but what does it offer that the Expy does not? I think the 2015 Expy added a lot of the features it was lacking vs. the Tahoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I think the 2015 Expy added a lot of the features it was lacking vs. the Tahoe What was the Expy lacking though? Serious question, because I just can't think of what the Tahoe offered that the Expy did not. Other than a solid rear axle and non-fold flat rear seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 The real problem with GM is that the bailout and quasi-bankruptcy process essentially short-circuited the change in corporate culture that GM desperately needed, and still needs. The ignition switch fiasco, along the with corporation's confused response to the Ram outselling the Silverado for one month, show that a culture of arrogance and sloppiness still reign at GM headquarters. Indeed. You get the sense that they simply will not, absolutely will not, learn from their competition. They *see* Ford fix their range from the bottom up. They see Ford invest heavily in the products that sell in the highest volume. This is not difficult to grasp. It is not impossible to understand. But they simply will not do this. They will not marshal their resources in order to put out a vehicle like the Fusion. They *can*, but they won't, and I believe that the reason is because they are institutionally incapable of admitting that they are wrong, not only in execution, but in strategy. I would like to hear *any* GM exec speak with the candor that Bill Ford, Jr. brought to the 13th floor. I mean, really, when was the last time you heard a GM exec say, "You know what? We have not been focused enough on the products that most of our customers buy." Has anyone at GM ever said this? And if the execs will not consider the possibility that they are thoroughly mistaken, nothing will ever change. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 What was the Expy lacking though? Serious question, because I just can't think of what the Tahoe offered that the Expy did not. Other than a solid rear axle and non-fold flat rear seats. Currently? (Yes, some of these are being addressed on the 2015, but that's not available yet.) Magnetic ride control, Keyless start, Touch screen infotainment center, Adaptive cruise control. The few I found through a quick search. More than likely others as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 OK, if you want to compare the '14 Expy to the '15 Tahoe. So the Tahoe is available 4-5 months earlier than the Expy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 What was the Expy lacking though? Serious question, because I just can't think of what the Tahoe offered that the Expy did not. Other than a solid rear axle and non-fold flat rear seats. I was referring to some of the technology stuff (BLIS, auto cruise, adjustable suspension, etc) I've never understood why the Tahoe and friends have done so much better than the Expy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 OK, if you want to compare the '14 Expy to the '15 Tahoe. So the Tahoe is available 4-5 months earlier than the Expy. Well, the price comparisons were being made between the '14 Expy and '15 Tahoe. Why shouldn't the features you get for that money be compared the same way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I was referring to some of the technology stuff (BLIS, auto cruise, adjustable suspension, etc) I've never understood why the Tahoe and friends have done so much better than the Expy. I think it's really just the look. It's a "woman" thing (no offense to women, just the way it is). It looks more feminine than the Expy, and the girls like their friends' Tahoe so they get one just like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Well, the price comparisons were being made between the '14 Expy and '15 Tahoe. Why shouldn't the features you get for that money be compared the same way? OK, you got me. I wasn't specifically referring to price though, just what does it offer than the '15 won't. So, confusion on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonM Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I'm not up to date on the Tahoe, but what does it offer that the Expy does not? Push rods. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Push rods. POTW right there.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 POTW right there.......... It would only be POTW worthy if the Ford's "more advanced" overhead cam 5.4 wasn't such a weakling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 It would only be POTW worthy if the Ford's "more advanced" overhead cam 5.4 wasn't such a weakling. Only if you totally ignore the 2015 Expedition which is due out in a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Only if you totally ignore the 2015 Expedition which is due out in a few months. Considering the entire conversation involving features and price was based on the 2014 Expedition, yes, I'm totally ignoring it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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