papilgee4evaeva Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 That's fine by me. The company already has Focus/Fusion Titanium established in the market that CLA is trying to dip into. At that point, you only buy a CLA (or an A3) for the badge, nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Take the MKC platform/drivetrain and give it a sedan/coupe/hatchback top hat. It's already got enough power (and AWD) and doo-dads to justify the upsell over the Focus Titanium and might also be a tad larger which is good. Not saying they have to do it but it would need to start at a minimum of $32K with all the normal Lincoln goodies. Like a BMW/Honda "Touring" sedan/hatchback? Ewwww . . . . I'll pass, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 That's fine by me. The company already has Focus/Fusion Titanium established in the market that CLA is trying to dip into. At that point, you only buy a CLA (or an A3) for the badge, nothing more. Ehhhh. I would still put the CLA a rung above anything offered under the Ford brand. Even in base trim it offers some standard features you can't get on the Focus or Fusion at all: 14-way power drivers seat, 7-speed transmission, collision prevention, and attention assist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Ehhhh. I would still put the CLA a rung above anything offered under the Ford brand. Even in base trim it offers some standard features you can't get on the Focus or Fusion at all: 14-way power drivers seat, 7-speed transmission, collision prevention, and attention assist. ... and other features like automatic AC, SiriusXM, and heated seats are cost options on the CLA while standard on the Fusion Ti. Kind of a weird tradeoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 ... and other features like automatic AC, SiriusXM, and heated seats are cost options on the CLA while standard on the Fusion Ti. Kind of a weird tradeoff. Standard on the highest trim level of Fusion, not standard period. Nothing particularly odd about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemiman Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Deleated Edited June 23, 2014 by Hemiman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Like a BMW/Honda "Touring" sedan/hatchback? Ewwww . . . . I'll pass, thanks. No, like a regular sedan or hatchback built on the same platform just like Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Standard on the highest trim level of Fusion, not standard period. Nothing particularly odd about that. That's what I'm saying though. I was comparing CLA to Titanium. Focus too, for that matter. If they're the pinnacle of luxury (as is the perception they give off), there's no way that a Mercedes should charge extra for what comes standard on any "lowly" Ford... no matter the trim. (Regarding the 7DCT, well, Mercedes doesn't like automatic transmissions with even-numbered gears. Kind of a quirk of theirs, but not necessarily a selling point.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Given that most Europeans don't give two shits about Lincoln, if they've even heard of Lincoln, and the fact that the European economy is still crappy at best, leave the market to Audi and Merc. FOMOCO just won't get the return on investment. Given those two reasons, it doesn't matter what features they put on the car. "The juice isn't worth the squeeze", at this time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) A fully loaded ST is around 30-31K :p The only way I can see that Ford/Lincoln could make this work is to make a Sedan version of the ST as the Lincoln...but I've heard complaints about the ST being overpowered for everyday use too (lack of auto too)...so what do you use as an alternative engine for the Lincoln for every day use? What would be wrong with using the Fusion's 2.0 EB and auto trans with slightly less torque than the Focus ST. European Mondeo is available with two versions of the 2.0 EB, the less powerful is around 200 hp. either way, I'm sure that Ford could tune it or the 1.6 EB to be an effective package.. Edited June 23, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Even if they created a new AWD-capable floorpan for them, as AWD is an expected option in luxo-land, regardless of ethnicity of manufacture. Jaguar, Aston Martin, Porsche, are AWD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 High end Porsches and Jaguars are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Jaguar has had to offer AWD with the 3.0 V-6 with a supercharger on a couple of its models to try to stay competitive with AWD offerings from M-B, BMW and Audi, Lexus and Infiniti, but they do not have V-8 AWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 High end Porsches and Jaguars are. And even all Lamborghini cars are AWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Jaguar has had to offer AWD with the 3.0 V-6 with a supercharger on a couple of its models to try to stay competitive with AWD offerings from M-B, BMW and Audi, Lexus and Infiniti, but they do not have V-8 AWD. Why, I don't know. I don't imagine it to be a platform or space limitation with the XF and XJ, since a V8 isn't that much longer than a V6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Why, I don't know. I don't imagine it to be a platform or space limitation with the XF and XJ, since a V8 isn't that much longer than a V6. The S/C 3.0 V6 is much more fuel efficient and lower CO2 according to the Euro tests. Even with EPA highway figures, the 3.0 S./C is up as 28 (RWD) and 26 mpg (AWD) while the 5.0 V8 is 23 mpg. Edited June 24, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 That's what I'm saying though. I was comparing CLA to Titanium. Focus too, for that matter. If they're the pinnacle of luxury (as is the perception they give off), there's no way that a Mercedes should charge extra for what comes standard on any "lowly" Ford... no matter the trim. (Regarding the 7DCT, well, Mercedes doesn't like automatic transmissions with even-numbered gears. Kind of a quirk of theirs, but not necessarily a selling point.) Some of the things that are standard on the Titanium level Fords aren't standard on Lincolns or any other luxury cars for that matter. Some options are just that: options, as in some people probably don't want to pay extra for them, regardless of whether they are buying a luxury car or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Standard on the highest trim level of Fusion, not standard period. Nothing particularly odd about that. Well, I'd say that having to pay extra to get EATC and satellite radio is a bit odd--and paying extra for heated seats is a bit less odd, but still odd. These are items that I would expect any luxury car to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Well, I'd say that having to pay extra to get EATC and satellite radio is a bit odd--and paying extra for heated seats is a bit less odd, but still odd. These are items that I would expect any luxury car to have. Eh, if you live in parts of the south, no need to waste the few hundred bucks for heated seats. The EATC is a bit odd though, agreed. But still, it offers things the Titaniums don't, even as options. There's going to be some small level of overlap comparing the absolute base CLA with an absolutely loaded Titanium Ford. Edited June 24, 2014 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) I noticed that May sales of CLA was 1214 which is obviously below the sweet spot for MB cars, that being the C class at around 5,000 sales a month. Lincoln dealers want a compact Lincoln sedan because they obviously feel that they can get good sales, I've never known a dealer principle to refuse stock they feel as fast moving (good sales for them) but I wonder how that plays for Ford and whether expending resources on a compact Lincoln may be put to better use as say, a Titanium plus model, perhaps that helps the credibility gap rather than an MKF. Edited June 24, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Eh, if you live in parts of the south, no need to waste the few hundred bucks for heated seats. The EATC is a bit odd though, agreed. But still, it offers things the Titaniums don't, even as options. There's going to be some small level of overlap comparing the absolute base CLA with an absolutely loaded Titanium Ford. I believe most luxury cars in the US include heated seats standard. The MKC does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Eh, if you live in parts of the south, no need to waste the few hundred bucks for heated seats. The EATC is a bit odd though, agreed. But still, it offers things the Titaniums don't, even as options. There's going to be some small level of overlap comparing the absolute base CLA with an absolutely loaded Titanium Ford. Outside of central and south Florida, you will use those heated seats in the dead of winter. Trust me. (To follow up on Richard, the only luxury cars that don't come with heated seats standard... are from Germany. Hmm.) Regarding those other technologies (particularly collision avoidance), I'll grant that. Even though it's not particularly as luxurious as real leather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Kolman Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 The aritcle seems speclutive at best... And quite short term in its thinking... What is Lincoln going to be building/designing in 20 years? Where's the auto market equivelent of Nostradamus... Only thing that can be said is look at current projects and extrapolate where the next logical steps are. Follow this trajectory and extrapolate from there: - MKZ - midsized sedan - start of the revolution - MKC - compact CUV - new entry for growth part of the market - MKX - midsized CUV - critical redesign of the profit model - Navigator - fullsized SUV - redesign of flagship - MKS - fullsized sedan - close the loop and make the next marketing push - MKT - fullsized CUV - close the lineup gap and provide a marketing second punch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 The aritcle seems speclutive at best... And quite short term in its thinking...imhothe cause is that FLincMoCo is very short term in their TALKING ...Only thing that can be said is look at current projects and extrapolate where the next logical steps are. Follow this trajectory and extrapolate from there...love extrapolations but definitely the MKS(whatever it's called), and quite-possibly-imho the MKTREplacement(wic) too, will come out before the nextgen Navi... ...even the LincStang(s) might beat the Navi by a few months (ie early 2016 vs late 2016) [ asides ] High end Porsches and Jaguars are.interestingthose are the 2 Brands I see as closest Lincoln-targets going forward Porsche for Cuvs Jagular for cars (+ Bentley for the nextgen Navi) ...Lincoln dealers want a compact Lincoln sedan because they obviously feel that they can get good sales, I've never known a dealer principle to refuse stock they feel as fast moving (good sales for them)... wonder if FLincMoCo could use some perception-twists (Jedi mind tricks) to improve their dealers by:insinuating to less than wonderful dealers that their opinions (what they want) will be completely ignored (or even counted in Reverse) until after they meet the highest standards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) wonder if FLincMoCo could use some perception-twists (Jedi mind tricks) to improve their dealers by: insinuating to less than wonderful dealers that their opinions (what they want) will be completely ignored (or even counted in Reverse) until after they meet the highest standards? MB SLA sells at 1200/mth does not mean that an MKF would crash and burn with buyers, especially if it's seen as a better value proposition, do a good job and people don't see it as a Focus. The SLA might start off at $30K but I'm certain that price would quickly take off if you want a fully loaded version, I think that's why the sales are lower than some would expect, the ATP are probably at least $8K higher than base which starts to thin out buyers who begin looking around t other $40K vehicles like MB own C Class which is far more popular (5,000/mth). Edited June 24, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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