jpd80 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Could it be that FAPA is funding most of the development costs associated with Taurus and MKS, so those markets get to premier the results first before anything is said regarding North America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Doubt it. Funding and revenue ought to be proportional, and I doubt that FAPA revenue from those products matches the Americas region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I'd guess some of the floorpan could be shared, but if OAC is integrated stamping, then I don't necessarily see that as a cost savings. OAC currently gets most of its stampings from Buffalo Stamping Plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 OAC currently gets most of its stampings from Buffalo Stamping Plant. Chicago is not integrated, correct? If so, you could save money by supplying stampings to both the Edge & Explorer (which should share a fair bit once the platforms consolidate), and even a few bits to the Taurus/MKS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 My un-scientific survey shows that very few cops really like the PI Sedan, If you are over 6'2" there is not enough leg/head room. Cops who have eaten too many donuts do not fit behind the wheel. While "rear passenger" comfort is not a priority, the leg room (after the cage is installed) is so ridiculous most riders can not get their legs and feet in that space and have to lay across the seat. I have said for years, Ford should have stretched the platform 4-6" behind the seat for the MkS and the PI. Lincoln needs to differentiate it self from Ford and this would be the perfect way to do it. I've been speculating on CD4/CD4+ elsewhere: _ovl____wlb____w____ht________ 194.1 - 112.2 - 73.4 - 58.2 - MKZ 197.1 - 115.2 - 73.5 - 58.2 - LWZC (Long Wlb MKZ for China) 199.9 - 115.2 - 75.0 - 58.0 - nextgen Taurus 200.1 - 118.2 - 76.0 - 58.0 - MKS(wic)MARK & your post makes me wonder about aadding the IntercepTaurus to the MKS(wic)MARK's variant with its 3" longer wlb... ...Would that endanger the new Lincoln's reputation?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I've been speculating on CD4/CD4+ elsewhere: _ovl____wlb____w____ht________ 194.1 - 112.2 - 73.4 - 58.2 - MKZ 197.1 - 115.2 - 73.5 - 58.2 - LWZC (Long Wlb MKZ for China) 199.9 - 115.2 - 75.0 - 58.0 - nextgen Taurus 200.1 - 118.2 - 76.0 - 58.0 - MKS(wic)MARK & your post makes me wonder about aadding the IntercepTaurus to the MKS(wic)MARK's variant with its 3" longer wlb... ...Would that endanger the new Lincoln's reputation?? The Tauriceptors problem is room. Some smug posters can sit here and say "the cops need to lose weight", not the same thing (as much) is said about the Charger and Impala. Id bet the new PI would solve this issue though i doubt you see a next gen Taurus under 200 in and under 4000lbs loaded out the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) Chicago is not integrated, correct? If so, you could save money by supplying stampings to both the Edge & Explorer (which should share a fair bit once the platforms consolidate), and even a few bits to the Taurus/MKS. Correct. Chicago Stamping is in Chicago Heights. Edited June 27, 2014 by Pioneer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 You're not going to have *all* suspension components interchangeable when one vehicle is several hundred pounds heavier and rides a few inches higher.A quick check of some components that are shared between the current Focus, C-Max and Escape. Front calipers and brake pads Inner and outer tie rod ends Strut bearings Admittedly, the electric Focus and Focus ST have a lot of "special" components. Plus the Focus use the dual clutch transmission and C-Max and Escape do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I've been speculating on CD4/CD4+ elsewhere: _ovl____wlb____w____ht________ 194.1 - 112.2 - 73.4 - 58.2 - MKZ 197.1 - 115.2 - 73.5 - 58.2 - LWZC (Long Wlb MKZ for China) 199.9 - 115.2 - 75.0 - 58.0 - nextgen Taurus 200.1 - 118.2 - 76.0 - 58.0 - MKS(wic)MARK & your post makes me wonder about aadding the IntercepTaurus to the MKS(wic)MARK's variant with its 3" longer wlb... ...Would that endanger the new Lincoln's reputation?? As long as a stretch PI did not share all of the sheet metal with MKS(wic)MARK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 The Tauriceptors problem is room. Some smug posters can sit here and say "the cops need to lose weight", not the same thing (as much) is said about the Charger and Impala. Id bet the new PI would solve this issue though i doubt you see a next gen Taurus under 200 in and under 4000lbs loaded out the door. Its not so much that as it is the dash/center console on the car. I've been in drove a couple LX cars and they do feel slightly wider in the front end the D3 Taurus/500. As for weight, the I4 Ecoboost Taurus weighs in at 3900lbs. An AWD Fusion with 2L Ecoboost wieghs around 3600lbs...so I think saving 500lbs is going to be stretch outside of the higher end models like the SHO, that weigh in at 4400 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Its not so much that as it is the dash/center console on the car. I've been in drove a couple LX cars and they do feel slightly wider in the front end the D3 Taurus/500. As for weight, the I4 Ecoboost Taurus weighs in at 3900lbs. An AWD Fusion with 2L Ecoboost wieghs around 3600lbs...so I think saving 500lbs is going to be stretch outside of the higher end models like the SHO, that weigh in at 4400 or so. I'd add 2 things may happen with the next Taurus/ MKS ; A slightly heavier car but with a lot of technology, room and build quality. A car that's 150-300 lbs lighter with said options above. As with the weigh shock that happened with Mustang i'll see a base 37-3800 lb base Taurus, 41-4300 Sho and a 4500 lb loaded MKS. Can it be lighter, yes but expect to pay Audi prices for that tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Weight shock on the new Mustang? Who was shocked about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) Weight shock on the new Mustang? Who was shocked about it? Here and other boards was expecting 3100-3300 lb Mustang but got a car that weigh as much as the current car despite being a little smaller. Edited June 27, 2014 by Fgts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) Here and other boards was expecting 3100-3300 lb Mustang but got a car that weigh as much as the current car despite being a little smaller. I would say those people were being unrealistic. Even the SN95's weighed more than that. Edited June 27, 2014 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Here and other boards was expecting 3100-3300 lb Mustang but got a car that weigh as much as the current car despite being a little smaller. So it was only a shock to people who were speculating without any real data? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 Here and other boards was expecting 3100-3300 lb Mustang but got a car that weigh as much as the current car despite being a little smaller. Um its actually the same size, if not larger...it "looks" smaller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 More svelte but definitely not smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I would figure if there is a MKS replacement, and supposedly it'll be a technological powerhouse, that an aluminum skin be pretty much expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 ^ What I want to know is: which parts can go either way, steel or aluminum on the SAME vehicle? I'm thinking- door skins could be either but dunno- - - if it'd save much weight- - - if it could interfere with the unibody crash-worthinessTHO- hoods(bonnets) ARE offered in both materials AFAIK- also trunklids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) I'm betting that Ford China is picking up the tab for most if not all costs for developing CD4 Taurus and MKS, that's why we're not hearing a peep out of these cars for North America, they have to debut first in Asia before being announced for elsewhere... And if Ford China has absorbed those costs, Ford North America will have two vehicles that can be good profit earners on top of existing manufacturing. The bigger question I have is Explorer and what Ford has planned - an Uber CD4 or simply to rebirth D3 by using much lighter CD4 doors to increase interior width and reduce weight. Edited June 27, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 The bigger question I have is Explorer and what Ford has planned - an Uber CD4 or simply to rebirth D3 by using much lighter CD4 doors to increase interior width and reduce weight. Plus whatever replaces the Flex/MKT makes an Uber CD4 more likely, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I expect Flex to die and MkT to go with Explorer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I'm betting that Ford China is picking up the tab for most if not all costs for developing CD4 Taurus and MKS, that's why we're not hearing a peep out of these cars for North America, they have to debut first in Asia before being announced for elsewhere... I doubt that very much. These products aren't being bootstrapped off China revenue, and I doubt that China is going to produce a significant amount of revenue for Ford from these products, given the JV structure of Chinese ops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 28, 2014 Author Share Posted June 28, 2014 I doubt that very much. These products aren't being bootstrapped off China revenue, and I doubt that China is going to produce a significant amount of revenue for Ford from these products, given the JV structure of Chinese ops. I'd have to agree...what will happen is the costs being spread to the Explorer/MKT Explorer along with the PI and PIU. I see the Explorer being more or less a 3 row Edge in its next release, and the Taurus/MKS being a slightly longer wheelbase Edge. Given the difference between the Fusion and Edge being in the width of the products....going by last years sales numbers of all related products going forward, your looking at at least 528K (not including Flex/MKT or S-Max/Galaxy sales) cars in NA that share anywhere from 60-80% of common components. That's a Super Segment right there like the Focus platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 If anything, the Taurus & MKS will share suspension components with the Fusion/MKZ, not with the Edge/Explorer/Lincoln variants. Ford is not going to use a CUV platform to underpin a sedan again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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