'15 F450 Best in Class Towing

[ANTAUS]

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2014/09/02/ultimate-towing-machine-2015-ford-f-450-rated-best-in-class.html

[92merc]

So much for Ram's "higher torque" rating.

 

Now Ford just needs to counter their 1/2 ton commercial. I laugh at the 27% better fuel mileage claim in the Dodge. Sure it is better mileage, just don't tow anything with it heavier than a lawnmower.

[RichardJensen]

As a result of the J2807 test results, Ford is also increasing the F-450 pickup’s already best-in-class gross combined weight rating from 40,000 pounds to 40,400 pounds – topping the nearest competitor by 2,500 pounds

 

 

Someone get Sergio a napkin to remove all that egg from his face.

[Gnostic]

Why is it a crew cab 4x4 ? Is that a common towing configuration? I can see crew cab maybe but why 4x4?

[Bryan1]

"Ford previously determined F-450 pickup towing capacity using rigorous internal testing standards exclusively. Now it has added SAE J2807 test procedures, reaffirming the F-450 pickup rating. F-450 passed the additional tests with 31,200 pounds in tow, just as it passed Ford internal tests.

 

SAE J2807 requires the vehicle to be loaded with about 400 pounds more weight than Ford’s internal test (two passengers instead of one, and base curb weight instead of minimum curb weight), but the weight addition has no effect on F-450 towing capacity. Using either standard, F-450 has best-in-class towing capacity of 31,200 pounds.

 

Ford says it is migrating to the J2807 standard when it introduces all-new vehicles and will use base curb weight, rather than minimum curb weight, to determine payload ratings for all of its pickup trucks. The change will align Ford’s payload rating practices with other manufacturers to make it easier for customers to compare vehicles.

 

Using base curb weight, maximum payload for the 2015 F-450 pickup goes from 5,450 pounds to 5,300 pounds."

 

http://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/f-450-gets-best-in-class-towing-nod-using-sae-j2807-standard/

 

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Good. Now Ford can stop hearing from the GM blogs how Ford is not using J2807 (at least on F-450 & F-150) and how Ford was removing bumpers even though that was solely GM's practice and GM was going to expand it to the 1500's before GM reversed course.

[fordmantpw]

Why is it a crew cab 4x4 ? Is that a common towing configuration? I can see crew cab maybe but why 4x4?

 

That's the only way the F450 pickup comes.

 

You do get your choice of colors though...it doesn't have to be black.

[akirby]

Is a 4x4 dualie really 6WD?

[fordmantpw]

Is a 4x4 dualie really 6WD?

 

Hmmm, that's a good question. Since there are only 4 attachments points to the axles, I would say no. But 6x6 sounds cooler...

[Anthony]

Correct me I'm wrong, but didn't the F-450 already have the highest tow rating? The issue was that it weighed too much to be considered a class 3 unless certain items were deleted. Has that changed? I know they are using SAE J2807 procedures to determine towing, but does the vehicle weigh less now to be considered a Class 3 (without removing items)?

 

Glad everyone is finally moving to SAE J2807.

[fordmantpw]

Correct me I'm wrong, but didn't the F-450 already have the highest tow rating? The issue was that it weighed too much to be considered a class 3 unless certain items were deleted. Has that changed? I know they are using SAE J2807 procedures to determine towing, but does the vehicle weigh less now to be considered a Class 3 (without removing items)?

 

I think you are correct, and I don't think that has changed. In the article, Ford did be sure to state '2015 Ford F-450 Super Duty Class 3 ' to make it a point that they consider it class 3.

 

 

Glad everyone is finally moving to SAE J2807.

 

Agreed! Now they are at least all playing by the same 'towing rules' anyway.

[RichardJensen]

The issue was that it weighed too much to be considered a class 3

 

 

 

Pretty sure that's Ford gamesmanship. Lop 150lbs off the payload to keep the F-450 in Class 3.

 

Or do you think that Ford couldn't pass J2807 with ~1% more weight on the F-450?

[Anthony]

 

 

 

Pretty sure that's Ford gamesmanship. Lop 150lbs off the payload to keep the F-450 in Class 3.

 

Or do you think that Ford couldn't pass J2807 with ~1% more weight on the F-450?

 

 

I don't think anyone (including Ram) doubts Ford tows more, J2807 or not. Was just wondering how they are claiming the Class 3 designation to actually be comparable to Ram.

[7Mary3]

It had better be 'best in class', no one else makes a class 4 pickup. At least not yet.....

[Bryan1]

Ram's GVWR also exceeds 14,000 lb. From a post on PUTC:

 

I went back to check Ram's 2014 tow charts. Go down to page 4 to the truck that Ram lists to tow 30,000lbs. Ram states it has a 14,000lb GVWR, but......... if you add ups it's 7,434lbs base curb weight and its rated 6,570 lbs payload then that makes 14,004 lbs.

 

http://www.rambodybuilder.com/2014/docs/ram/rammlup3500.pdf

 

If you build that same truck on their towing guide, then it will give you a curb weightr of 7,450lbs and a payload of 6,566 lbs. Add those up and it is 14,016 lbs.

 

http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/towing_guide/

 

Why is PUTC not calling Ram out on it like they did with Ford's 14,0061 lbs with F450 after adding the curb weight and payload capacity?

 

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2014/08/2015-ram-hds-continue-to-boast-segment-leadership.html

[RichardJensen]

 

Was just wondering how they are claiming the Class 3 designation to actually be comparable to Ram.

 

Simple.

 

 

14,000 - base weight per J2807 = payload.

 

You don't even *bother* certifying any payload higher than that amount, regardless of how much payload the truck is capable of carrying.

Edited September 2, 2014 by RichardJensen

[fordmantpw]

Just a random thought:

 

31,200 lbs is a shitload of weight to tow behind a pickup truck!

[RichardJensen]

Ram's GVWR also exceeds 14,000 lb. From a post on PUTC:

 

I went back to check Ram's 2014 tow charts. Go down to page 4 to the truck that Ram lists to tow 30,000lbs. Ram states it has a 14,000lb GVWR, but......... if you add ups it's 7,434lbs base curb weight and its rated 6,570 lbs payload then that makes 14,004 lbs.

 

http://www.rambodybuilder.com/2014/docs/ram/rammlup3500.pdf

 

If you build that same truck on their towing guide, then it will give you a curb weightr of 7,450lbs and a payload of 6,566 lbs. Add those up and it is 14,016 lbs.

 

http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/towing_guide/

 

Why is PUTC not calling Ram out on it like they did with Ford's 14,0061 lbs with F450 after adding the curb weight and payload capacity?

 

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2014/08/2015-ram-hds-continue-to-boast-segment-leadership.html

 

Perhaps the door labels are calculated so as to consistently yield 14,000lbs, regardless of unofficial towing guides?

[Anthony]

 

Simple.

 

 

14,000 - base weight per J2807 = payload.

 

You don't even *bother* certifying any payload higher than that amount, regardless of how much payload the truck is capable of carrying.

 

 

Gotcha. Makes sense.

[Bryan1]

More:

 

"A spokesman said today that the towing ratings for the F-250 and F-350 would not be restated under the J2807 standard until they were redesigned. But the F-250 and F-350’s maximum payloads would be restated using base curb weights."

 

AND:

 

"In a news release today on the F-450, Ford lowered the maximum payload of its largest pickup by 150 pounds, to 5,300 pounds. That allows the F-450 to remain under the 14,000-pound gross vehicle weight rating that defines it as a Class 3 pickup."

 

So F-150-F-450 are all using base curb weight. And F-450 is under 14k pound GVWR making it ofiicially a Class 3.

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140902/OEM04/140909982/ford-abandons-practice-of-removing-items-to-boost-heavy-duty-pickup

 

_____________________________

 

Also, a new quote from Ford stating they are under 14,000 lb and Ram still refuses to give up the title:

 

Ford says yes, obviously; "the 2015 F-450 pickup is a beefed-up F-350 with a GVWR (max the rig can weigh, not including a trailer) of under 14,000 pounds making it a Class III truck in every way."

 

http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/2015-ford-f-450-meets-sae-tow-standard-ram-refuses-to-1629488955

Edited September 2, 2014 by Bryan1

[7Mary3]

O.K., I get it: The F-450 (pickup, anyway) is no longer a class 4 truck, because Ford downrated it to class 3 to reclaim the 'best towing' title from Ram who never had it anyway!

[Bryan1]

Ford retains best-in-class heavy duty pickup towing despite F-450′s move to stricter standards

 

By changing the way it measures the 2015 F-450′s payload and towing ratings, Ford has thrown the latest punch in an ongoing debate with Ram over which brand of heavy-duty pickup has best-in-class towing.

 

Ford announced today that the newest F-450′s maximum towing rating now adheres to the SAE J2807 towing standard. Ford also announced that it would use base curb weights to determine the truck’s payload ratings moving forward. In the past, Ford has used its own methods for determining both of these ratings.

 

The automaker was the first to determine maximum payload rating in pickups using minimum curb weight, stripping certain equipment out of its pickups in order to lower their weight and boost ratings, as Automotive News points out.

When it comes to towing ratings, Ram recently adopted the J2807 towing standard across all of its 2015 trucks and GM has announced J2807-compliant ratings for the 2015 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra 1500s. Ford announced in February that the 2015 F-150 would be rated according to the standard. Unlike the F-450, Ford’s other Super Duty pickups, the F-250 and F-350, won’t follow the standard until they receive a redesign. However, a Ford spokesperson did tell Automotive News that their “maximum payloads would be restated using base curb weights.”

Using the J2807 standard, the crew-cab 4×4 F-450 was actually able to retain the maximum towing rating of 31,200 pounds that Ford previously touted from internal testing. That figure is 2,200 pounds more than the truck’s closest competitor, the Ram 3500 4×4, and Ford is claiming a best-in-class rating.

 

However, Ram previously argued that Ford can’t make that claim because technically, the F-450 is a Class 4 pickup, unlike the Class 3 Ram 3500. Despite the fact that the F-450 actually uses an F-350 frame, Class 3 pickups must have a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 14,000 pounds and lower. GVWR is the max amount the vehicle can weigh and the F-450′s was higher than 14,000 pounds.

 

In response, and as part of the migration to the J2807 standard, Ford now uses base curb weights to determine max payload which not only lowered the F-450′s max payload 150 pounds to 5,300, but also put the truck’s GVWR under 14,000 pounds.

 

So, in the end, migrating to the stricter standards were a win-win for Ford. Not only does it put the F-450 in line with other manufacturers using the J2807 standard—thus making it easier for customer comparisons between brands—it also allows the truck to claim best-in-class towing title among Class 3 trucks.

 

Moving to the J2807 standard also upped the F-450′s undisputed claim to best-in-class gross combined weight rating (GCWR) from 40,000 pounds to 40,400 pounds. GCWR measures the maximum amount of weight a truck can haul combining the weight of the vehicle and the trailer.

 

“We leave no doubt with customers that the F-450 pickup truck has best-in-class towing of 31,200 pounds—whether tested using our own internal towing standards or SAE J2807,” Raj Nair, Ford’s vice president for global product development, said in a prepared statement.

 

- See more at: http://www.equipmentworld.com/ford-retains-claim-to-best-in-class-heavy-duty-pickup-towing-despite-f-450s-move-to-stricter-standards/?utm_content=buffer5ae28&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer#sthash.bT8rf2Bs.dpuf

 

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Ram loses, again. How long with Ram refuse to give up the title?

[fordmantpw]

Why Ford didn't just call the F450 the 'F350 Extra Super Duty' is beyond me. It's just a damn pissing match.

 

This is the important quote from the article:

 

 

 

2015 Ford F-450 Super Duty Class 3 pickup boasts the highest rating of any pickup truck in the United States – 31,200 pounds, measured using the Society of Automotive Engineers J2807 standard

[RichardJensen]

The other funny thing:

 

Payload--

 

Both the Dodge and the Ford are capped out at 14,000lbs GVWR to stay in Class 3.

 

However, the F-450 is significantly heavier than the Dodge.

 

But think about that: You've got a ~7,500lb vehicle with a claimed ~6,500lb payload in the Dodge. Does that sound like an even remotely sensible payload? I mean, the Ford ratings are a bit outre, and they're ~5,300 on a ~8,700lb truck.

[Edstock]

You've got a ~7,500lb vehicle with a claimed ~6,500lb payload in the Dodge. Does that sound like an even remotely sensible payload?

 

Can I watch?

[Bryan1]

Here's another good article on this:

 

Ford and Ram Locked In Numbers Dispute Feuding manufacturers battle over best-in-class claims

http://www.trucktrend.com/features/consumer/1409_ford_and_ram_locked_in_numbers_dispute/

 

• The Ford F-350 and F-450 (pickup version only) are both Class 3 trucks.

 

 

 

But not so quick, as officials at Ram questioned whether or not the F-450 should be considered a Class 3 truck at all. If the F-450 were indeed a Class 4 truck, then Ram would have a stake in the best-in-class claims, knowing that the company's lineup features capability that is very competitive against the F-350. However, if the F-450 were a Class 3 truck, then Ram would no longer be able to make those claims.

 

In August 2014, Ram took things one step further by offering a new engine calibration for the 2015 Cummins, bringing torque to a best-in-class 865 lb-ft, topping Ford's new 6.7L by 5 lb-ft of torque. Ram also went on to announce that the company's entire product line is SAE J2807 compliant, something that couldn't be said about Ford, as Ford chose not to use J2807 until new versions of their products entered the market. However, Ford announced in September 2014 that the refreshed 2015 Ford F-450 would also be J2807 compliant earlier than planned in order to squash Ram's claims of best-in-class on towing and payload.

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We reached out to Ford to ask them about the Class 3/Class 4 controversy, and this is what Mike Levine, truck communications manager at Ford, told us:

"The F-450 pickup is a Class 3 vehicle, as the GVWR is 14,000 pounds. Using base curb weight (8,611 pounds), the F-450 maximum payload is now 5,300 pounds. That's under14,000 pounds GVWR. As before, our customers can choose to delete certain equipment and get a higher payload rating without exceeding the Class 3 GVWR.

Also, the F-450 pickup is not a F-450 chassis cab truck with a pickup box. The two trucks use structurally different frames with different shapes and frame rail spacing. The F-450 pickup is based on the F-350 frame. F-450 pickup frame rails are spaced 38 inches apart in contrast to the F-450 chassis cab, which has frame rails spaced according to the industry standard for chassis cabs at 34 inches apart, so it's easy for aftermarket companies to sell custom bodies to commercial truck owners, independent of the truck manufacturer. Additionally, the F-450 chassis cab is not designed to accommodate a Ford pickup box, which has mount points spaced too widely to fit on the Ford chassis cab frame.

 

 

 

The F-450 pickup uses a more capable version of the F-350 frame to support the increased towing, plus a stronger suspension and commercial-grade 19.5-inch wheels and tires to enable its best-in-class tow rating of 31,200 pounds. If you removed the cargo box from an F-450 pickup truck, you would see an F-350 frame and not an F-450 chassis frame. The front portion of the F-450 pickup frame has upgrades (thicker materials and form differences) to support a higher gross axle weight rating."

 

While Ram has an argument that the company's Ram 3500 should be compared to the Ford F-350, it would appear that both the F-350 and F-450 are Class 3 trucks, despite the naming semantics. The importance of this little detail can't be overstated, as correct categorization will give bragging right to whichever company is ultimately on the right side of the numbers.

 

To see how the Ford F-350 and Ram 3500 compare, we chose the most capable regular-cab 4x2 DRW, the high-volume crew-cab 4x4 SRW, and the F-450-close crew-cab 4x4 DRW. We also threw in the F-450 to give you an idea of how the different truck lines shake out in the numbers games. We used 2015 numbers for Ford and Ram.

 

 

More at the link: http://www.trucktrend.com/features/consumer/1409_ford_and_ram_locked_in_numbers_dispute/

Edited September 3, 2014 by Bryan1