KBB and Wall Street Journal claim Ford big loser in September

[OHV 16V]

 

Where is Chrysler's challenge for Transit or Transit Connect? Fusion? Escape? Focus? Fiesta?

Not trying to be an ass, but...

 

1. RAM Promaster

2. RAM Promaster City (Coming 2015)

3. Chrysler 200

4. Jeep Cherokee

5. Dodge Dart

6. Fiat 500 (Shaky on this one, as the 500 is actually a class of car smaller, a.k.a. A-Segment)

[akirby]

Not trying to be an ass, but...

 

1. RAM Promaster

2. RAM Promaster City (Coming 2015)

3. Chrysler 200

4. Jeep Cherokee

5. Dodge Dart

6. Fiat 500 (Shaky on this one, as the 500 is actually a class of car smaller, a.k.a. A-Segment)

 

August sales

ProMaster + Cargo van - 2700 Transit + E series - 7700

200 - 10K Fusion - 29K

Dart - 8K Focus - 22K

Cherokee - 18K Escape - 28K

Promaster City - 0 Transit Connect - 3900

Town and Country - 14K Ford Flex - 1900

 

Chrylser - 52,700 Ford - 92,500

 

Any other questions?

[OHV 16V]

 

August sales

ProMaster + Cargo van - 2700 Transit + E series - 7700

200 - 10K Fusion - 29K

Dart - 8K Focus - 22K

Cherokee - 18K Escape - 28K

Promaster City - 0 Transit Connect - 3900

Town and Country - 14K Ford Flex - 1900

 

Chrylser - 52,700 Ford - 92,500

 

Any other questions?

I wasn't debating sales numbers, I thought you meant you didn't think Fiat-Chrysler built a competitor to any of the vehicles you listed in your post I quoted.

[AlRozzi]

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140926/OEM01/140929901/is-ford-due-for-ratings-boost-after-gm-upgrade

 

 

 

Compared with 1999, Fords market capitalization is larger, its dividend costs lower, and the carmaker said it will cut automotive debt to $10 billion as soon as next year, equaling its obligations of a decade and a half ago.

 

The companys prospects are poised to improve even more. Next year, after Ford introduces an aluminum-bodied version of its top-selling F-150, analysts predict a 72 percent rise in operating earnings and a 74 percent increase in cash flow, Levington said. That would make Fords operating profit margins equal to or better than higher-rated Honda and Nissan -- giving ratings companies even more cause to boost Fords credit rating.

 

Next year could really be a game-changing year from a credit standpoint for Ford, Levington said

[akirby]

I wasn't debating sales numbers, I thought you meant you didn't think Fiat-Chrysler built a competitor to any of the vehicles you listed in your post I quoted.

I was refuting the statement that Chrysler was doing better because they had a minivan that Ford couldn't compete with. The point was ford put their money and resources into other vehicles that do far better than their Chrysler counterparts.

[YT90SC]

Argue all you want about sales numbers vs profits and whatnot. It doesn't matter a lick to who is actually BUYING cars.

--Focus and Fiesta are being crushed with the weight of the DPS6 fiasco. Even with the warranty extension (14M01) its tainted meat. The '15 still has it.

--The Escape is the recall king of the world. There is a new HUGE one this week, as a matter of fact.

--Fusion has multiple quality issues, and has out of the gate.

--C-Max, MPG revisions and battery drain issues that they still cannot seem to fix.

--The 1.6 Ecoboost (the volume engine in Fusion and Escape) is a bigger headache than the 3.8l v6 was in the 90's.

--Parts shortages across the board have become beyond pathetic.

So, in short, the (somewhat) affordable cars most people buy are buckets of poo and the word is getting out. Fusion sales are the biggest reflection of this.

The cars they actually do right - Taurus, Flex and Explorer are long in the tooth. "Coming soon" overhyping of Mustang and aluminum F-150 are murdering sales of the outdated models. Refreshed S Doody barely available. Transit barely available. New Edge not available.

[RichardJensen]

Yes, yes, we know: "The sky is falling."

 

Come back when you've learned a new tune. We've heard this one before.

Edited September 27, 2014 by RichardJensen

[JasonM]

Back to the real world...

 

http://www.at.ford.com/news/cn/Pages/Behind%20the%20Numbers%20with%20Ford%20U-S-%20Sales%20Analyst%20Erich%20Merkle.aspx

 

"Both Fusion and Escape had their best August sales ever and posted record year-to-date sales (both total and retail.)

 

Explorer has been doing well all year long and August was no exception. Sales were up 25 percent over last year, and we had our best sales month for Explorer since 2004. That’s significant because back in 2004 the utility segment looked much different than it is today. It was largely dominated by three-row utilities, and small utilities hadn’t yet taken hold. Today, small utilities represent the lion’s share of the segment, more than 50 percent. So it’s a much different environment and yet Explorer is able to perform at levels consistent with 2004."

[JasonM]

 

So, in short, the (somewhat) affordable cars most people buy are buckets of poo and the word is getting out. Fusion sales are the biggest reflection of this.

 

 

http://www.at.ford.com/news/cn/Pages/Behind%20the%20Numbers%20with%20Ford%20U-S-%20Sales%20Analyst%20Erich%20Merkle.aspx

 

"Both Fusion and Escape had their best August sales ever and posted record year-to-date sales (both total and retail.) "

 

 

So, in short, the (somewhat) ability of people to post buckets of poo does not mean those posts have any credibility and the word is getting out. Your posts are the biggest reflection of this.

[jpd80]

As at August, Ford's total year to date sales are flat compared to same time in 2013.

what we are seeing is greater emphasis on utilities especially Escape and Explorer.

 

If you were to take Ford's most popular vehicles in August, their combined sales account for

 

Focus & Fusion = ~51,000 of 71.000 cars

Escape & Explorer = 46,600 of 61,600 Utilities

F Series = 68,000 of 81,000 Truck sales.

 

That's 165,000 vehicles out of a total of 214,000 or just under 80% of sales from those key vehicles.

 

Yep, Ford must be shitting their pants all the way to the bank..

Edited September 28, 2014 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

If that's the case, they should probably be going to a doctor instead.

[aneekr]

Argue all you want about sales numbers vs profits and whatnot. It doesn't matter a lick to who is actually BUYING cars.

--Focus and Fiesta are being crushed with the weight of the DPS6 fiasco. Even with the warranty extension (14M01) its tainted meat. The '15 still has it.

--The Escape is the recall king of the world. There is a new HUGE one this week, as a matter of fact.

--Fusion has multiple quality issues, and has out of the gate.

--C-Max, MPG revisions and battery drain issues that they still cannot seem to fix.

--The 1.6 Ecoboost (the volume engine in Fusion and Escape) is a bigger headache than the 3.8l v6 was in the 90's.

--Parts shortages across the board have become beyond pathetic.

So, in short, the (somewhat) affordable cars most people buy are buckets of poo and the word is getting out. Fusion sales are the biggest reflection of this.

The cars they actually do right - Taurus, Flex and Explorer are long in the tooth. "Coming soon" overhyping of Mustang and aluminum F-150 are murdering sales of the outdated models. Refreshed S Doody barely available. Transit barely available. New Edge not available.

 

On top of all that, Ford continues to post losses in South America and Russia and is struggling to make inroads in the India market. I sold all but 100 of my F shares earlier this year after recovering from cancer treatment. F has lagged the S&P 500 significantly over the past year.

Edited September 30, 2014 by aneekr

[joseodiaga4]

I hope Lincoln sales are up

[Anthony]

TO RENTAL COMPANIES...cheap is a Rental companies darling. Chrysler is playing a dangerous game by literally BUYING the market, it cannot continue without them ultimately hurting....

.

I know I always seem like a Chrysler apologist and that they've had a somewhat inglorious past regarding rental sales. But as of late, that has not been the case. Like Ford, much of their fleet has been coming from businesses lately. ...and at least last month (one of their best sales month in a decade), they had the highest retail sales percentage of any of the domestics.

 

The only vehicle left that really has a high rental percentage is the vans, (which are all new next year).

 

 

Blog and supporting Autonews article.

 

http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2014/09/chrysler-cuts-fleet-percentage-again

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140908/DATACENTER/140909879?

 

I don't have numbers to support this, but I don't think its too much of a reach to say that in the end, the year as a whole may still show a decent amount of rental sales as they got rid of the last of the Avengers and last gen 200's in the first half of the year.

 

THAT BEING SAID...Richard is absolutely right with his comments about their profit margins. They can sell at 100% retail, but if they aren't making enough money to continue in an effective manner, it won't make a difference.

 

Is Ford a MUCH healthier company? HELLS YES. Do they have hellaciously better margins? SI SI SEÑOR! But Chrysler also isn't the also-ran they used to be. I'm rooting for them both (meanwhile GM can kiss my rump).

[ANTAUS]

Reminder...let's take a flashback to many years ago. It was the arrogance of "Oh we are selling a shit load of vehicles, we can do no wrong", that got Ford in trouble. Don't let very good news here and there hamper of vision and take note that not everything is rosey, and step back and try to focus and fix issues here and there to continue to move forward responsibly. Profits might be good, sales might be good, but if your product is leaving your current customers with a bad taste in their mouth, it'll be hard to convince them to come back. Look how long it has taken them to look at Ford again, don't mess up a good thing as you move forward.

[RichardJensen]

if your product is leaving your current customers with a bad taste in their mouth

 

The Fusion has the highest ATP in the sector.