Deanh Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 If I weren't listening, I wouldn't have taken time to address all of these issues, some of them on more than one occasion. "design possibilities" : RWD has packaging problems -- GC is 5" longer than the Edge and the same size inside "higher torque/performance" : Adding a V8 to the Explorer would almost certainly make it CAFE negative, or even more CAFE negative than it already is and demand for 380hp+ entry-level CUVs is what, exactly? "better off road performance" : Incompatible with a sedan, and where is the demand for this feature? There's a big difference between failing to listen to your arguments and finding them unpersuasive. and those packaging "problems" could maybe be adressed by some skilled engineers no? and at least make it more competitive, perhaps we rotate the engine to east west?....V8*, you keep bringing that up, doubtful...ecoboost, in which case negative #2 adressed. "better offroad performance"...why do two vehicles have to utilize the same system, AWD makes more sense in a sedan...thats negative #3 adressed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 What an amusing thread. People who don’t have a clue about what they’re talking about acting like they do. I can tell you that Ford engineers do look at BON on occasion and have a good laugh. Read this thread and it’s easy to understand why. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 and those packaging "problems" could maybe be adressed by some skilled engineers no? and at least make it more competitive, perhaps we rotate the engine to east west?....V8*, you keep bringing that up, doubtful...ecoboost, in which case negative #2 adressed. "better offroad performance"...why do two vehicles have to utilize the same system, AWD makes more sense in a sedan...thats negative #3 adressed... "skilled engineers" -- you're still behind the 8-ball.That's money you don't have to spend with FWD. The two vehicle utilize the same system, or they don't utilize the same platform. That's basically the choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Horse hockey. If you don't widen it then you just have a 3 row Edge. You could get away with the same wheelbase and longer rear overhang but you have to widen it otherwise there is no point. 2015 Edge width w/o mirrors 75.9 2015 Explorer width w/o mirrors 78.9 Buttttt....the Edge is less then inch or two so in from the front row shoulder room and hip room vs the current Explorer....so not a huge need to really make it wider...but lets see what the next gen Taurus brings to the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 If I weren't listening, I wouldn't have taken time to address all of these issues, some of them on more than one occasion. You really don't know anymore than we do yet assume you are right and we are wrong. "design possibilities" : RWD has packaging problems -- GC is 5" longer than the Edge and the same size inside What packaging problem? luxury buyer aren't buying these cars for space, they want more of those intangibles, that makes a premium vehicle premium. D3 currently has alot of packaging issues it doesn't seem to be affecting sales right now. "higher torque/performance" : Adding a V8 to the Explorer would almost certainly make it CAFE negative, or even more CAFE negative than it already is and demand for 380hp+ entry-level CUVs is what, exactly? Does the Fusion have a V6? no. Why would the explorer have a V8 if lincoln has a V8? These problem are not as impossible as you make them out to be. "better off road performance" : Incompatible with a sedan, and where is the demand for this feature? why do you keep saying this? its simply not true. you keep looking for excuses to support your overemotional position. it is like the diesel thing all over again, you are blind to the value so you make stuff up to support your opinion. Anything an AWD FWD CUV can do a RWD CUV can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 What an amusing thread. People who don’t have a clue about what they’re talking about acting like they do. I can tell you that Ford engineers do look at BON on occasion and have a good laugh. Read this thread and it’s easy to understand why. I'm sure being passionate about a subject with little or no background can generate some chuckles for some. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 the Edge is less then inch or two so in from the front row shoulder room and hip room vs the current Explorer....so not a huge need to really make it wider...but lets see what the next gen Taurus brings to the table. Indeed. D3 is not a space-efficient platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I'm sure being passionate about a subject with little or no background can generate some chuckles for some. Happy birthday mate..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Indeed. D3 is not a space-efficient platform. so lets ditch it, develop a new one and put several top hats on it...oh wait....apparently thats not a good idea....( sorry....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) You really don't know anymore than we do yet assume you are right and we are wrong. The same could be said of you. luxury buyer aren't buying these cars for space Again, are luxury buyers purchasing $40k Fords? Why would the explorer have a V8 Heck, I don't know. But you seemed to think it was a good idea yesterday: http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/57504-jalopnik-rwd-lincoln-coming-and-its-a-crossover/?p=917090 and akirby brought it up again today why do you keep saying this You mean asking where the demand is for a CUV that is capable of serious off-roading? I guess because I have absolutely no idea where demand for a serious off-road capable CUV is. I mean this isn't like the Raptor, where there was literally, no production vehicle like it on the market. The market for off-roaders is already crammed to the gills with Jeeps, and what possible incentive can Ford give them to switch? Edited October 8, 2014 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 so lets ditch it, develop a new one and put several top hats on it...oh wait....apparently thats not a good idea....( sorry....) Yes. CD4.3. Edge, Galaxy, S-Max, Explorer, MKX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I can tell you that Ford engineers do look at BON on occasion and have a good laugh. I'm just a beancounter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Yes. CD4.3. Edge, Galaxy, S-Max, Explorer, MKX. Galaxy and S Max arent coming here IMO ( yet ).....so exactly whats the difference between utilizing CD4.3 across several products and GRWD doing the same....?.....that said , it will probably be 4 years before we see this new RWD platform no?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I'm just a beancounter. explains why we are all excited abot product and your worried about $.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 And what would be the problem with, essentially, a longer Edge accommodating a 3rd row w/storage behind it? The new edge can likely already fit a 3rd row, due to it being closely related to the S-Max. Much like the Toyota Venza, which only has 2 rows in the US but is avilable with a 3rd row in other markets, the New edge may have a 3rd row in China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 If I weren't listening, I wouldn't have taken time to address all of these issues, some of them on more than one occasion. "design possibilities" : RWD has packaging problems -- GC is 5" longer than the Edge and the same size inside "higher torque/performance" : Adding a V8 to the Explorer would almost certainly make it CAFE negative, or even more CAFE negative than it already is and demand for 380hp+ entry-level CUVs is what, exactly? "better off road performance" : Incompatible with a sedan, and where is the demand for this feature? There's a big difference between failing to listen to your arguments and finding them unpersuasive. OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I'm just a beancounter. Obviously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) the New edge may have a 3rd row in China. Wouldn't surprise me in the least. I think Ford's internal guidelines have minimums for hip/shoulder/leg/head room in the US market. I seem to recall an engineer, maybe it was HTT, lobbying to get a waiver to make the back seat smaller than the 'cookbook' allowed for the previous Mustang. Edited October 8, 2014 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 And what would be the problem with, essentially, a longer Edge accommodating a 3rd row w/storage behind it? Umm....it's not any wider? Since most buyers don't really need a 3rd row whey else would folks choose an Explorer today over an Edge? but lets see what the next gen Taurus brings to the table. There is no next gen Taurus for the U.S. Only China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 OK And an OK right back at *you* for failing to be persuaded by *my* arguments (or should I say that you ignored them?) :slapfight: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Umm....it's not any wider? Since most buyers don't really need a 3rd row whey else would folks choose an Explorer today over an Edge? You think most buyers are purchasing the Explorer because it's wider than the Edge? I mean, you've got a huge, glaring, obvious difference between the Explorer and the Edge, but you don't think that's the difference that leads most buyers to purchase one instead of the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I know. I was applying your argument to Dean's suggestion that Ford would move the Explorer up in price in order to slot another 3-row beneath it. Ah gotcha. I do think a vehicle like S-Max or Galaxy, if offered here, would be more complementary volume (similar to Flex), rather than supplementary volume, given things like ride height, etc. I mean look at Flex and Explorer - same platform, different looks, the more traditional looking Explorer sells, the more wagon like Flex doesn't, so I'd argue they'd be more like white space vehicles better competing against minivans and the like rather than the Explorer. Would you have some people buy an S-Max/Galaxy over an Explorer? Sure, but I'd think most would go toward Explorer instead. S-Max/Galaxy would be more like icing on the cake. Hmm......going back to the hybrid family rumors, S-Max could be a 7-passenger hybrid option in the lineup, slotting between Edge and Explorer, therefore offering another 7-passenger option, but targeting a different market altogether. See comment above. And what would be the problem with, essentially, a longer Edge accommodating a 3rd row w/storage behind it? I don't think it would look nearly as good if you kept it with the same wheelbase. 2015 Edge width w/o mirrors 75.9 2015 Explorer width w/o mirrors 78.9 Buttttt....the Edge is less then inch or two so in from the front row shoulder room and hip room vs the current Explorer....so not a huge need to really make it wider...but lets see what the next gen Taurus brings to the table. Yeah, isn't D3 known as a space-inefficient platform? Meaning despite exterior dimensions being larger and interior similar, that argument is moot given a more space efficient platform (of any type)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I don't think it would look nearly as good if you kept it with the same wheelbase. Current Edge/Explorer WB difference is like 1.5" Also, I see the Galaxy/Explorer in a relationship similar to C-Max/Escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 You think most buyers are purchasing the Explorer because it's wider than the Edge? I mean, you've got a huge, glaring, obvious difference between the Explorer and the Edge, but you don't think that's the difference that leads most buyers to purchase one instead of the other? Remember when the old Explorer had an optional 3rd row seat? The take rate was extremely low. I think the larger size overall is much more of a factor than the 3rd row by itself. Especially for buyers who don't have children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 And an OK right back at *you* for failing to be persuaded by *my* arguments (or should I say that you ignored them?) :slapfight: battle of the Moderators.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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