akirby Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 As engines get more efficient, both power and emissions are improved. They're not mutually exclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpvbs Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 People don't think they "need" all the power, they just like it. Add lots of HP to the list of wants like: a/c, power windows, heated seats, touchscreens, xxxxW stereos, navigation, remote start, colors other than black.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 .........pneumatic tires, hydraulic brakes, reverse gears, self-starters, real glass windows, a steering wheel instead of a tiller. The list just goes on and on............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) I will be mildly surprised if F-150 hybrid doesn't exist by 2017 when the new CAFE kicks in. Remember Ford and Toyota started working on a RWD truck hybrid program 5 years ago and then Ford pulled out in 2013 saying basically, Toyota has nothing to offer in this particular arena? That means Ford had decided to go on its own and I'm sure the development is almost complete. The reason I think it wasn't launched with 2015 F-150 is because Ford is waiting for the 10 speed auto, and/or to limit manufacturing complication during the first year. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-23/ford-splits-with-toyota-plans-own-truck-hybrid-system.html Diesel F-150 is much simpler engineering exercise and I think if fleet buyers demand it, Ford may make it happen. It all depends on the Transit... if diesel end up being more than 50% of the sales, then F-150 diesel will follow. Edited December 5, 2014 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) While a Diesel F-150 may eventually come along, it would be the shock of my life if the diesel that they chose for it was the 5 cyl from the Transit. That engine is, at least on the spec sheet, inferior to the one that Dodge has in the RAM and from what I've seen in the comparison tests, that diesel isn't too great. I still like my idea of using half of a scorpion. Edited December 7, 2014 by old_fairmont_wagon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 And if they are doing a hybrid those 700 lbs that were lost is going to be huge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajvolpe Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I believe that Ford has always been reluctant to produce a US small diesel for the F150 level truck, because the majority of their sales in this category go to high end product. General work trucks and so forth, are more price sensitive, and return less margin. The horse power wars in pickups are out of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goinbroke2 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 While I agree that power wars have gotten out of hand, dropping the power isn't necessarily going to increase MPG that much. Ford is using variable displacement with their turbos today to essentially do that, and that has given incremental MPG gains. Drop the HP/torque in the F250 from 440/860 (or whatever it is now) to 300/600 and I bet you don't pick up .5 MPG. Load it near the limit and I bet you actually lose MPG. A couple points you did not take into account: Emissions standards are much more stringent today. Strangely enough, that zaps MPG, especially with diesels. Trucks weigh more today due to safety standards and creature comforts. That's a huge deal! Trucks are slightly larger, thus making a larger hole they have to push through the air, increasing aero losses at highway speed. Crew cab trucks are the norm today. 20 years ago, they were the minority. They are heavier and require more fuel to carry them around. People use 1/2 ton trucks to do the jobs that 3/4 ton trucks were barely capable of 20 years ago. Look up the specs. I'm not saying that's necessarily a good thing, but it is what it is. It's a huge risk to reduce the capabilities of your truck in the truck wars. People's expectations have changed. They want (think they need) more power to do the job. Good points, I think some are self fulfilling though. People use 1/2 tons because they are as capable as a 3/4 ton were before. People drive 4 door trucks because 4 door, body on frame, rwd cars(wagons) which everybody used to use are no longer available. Trucks are the "new minivans". Don't even get me started on these pos trucks that have 4 doors but a 5ft box, if that's not a "high sitting car" I don't know what is. Emissions are emissions, you don't take a 200hp engine and increase emission standards and end up with 300hp. From 7.3l they dropped to 6 then 6.4 then 6.7l so while they are more efficient, the engines are still smaller than the 7.3 or even the original 6.9. Trucks have increased in size and weight which does factor in, but a 7000lb truck with a 7.3 wouldn't have a chance against a 8000lb 6.7 so it's not solely that trucks got heavier, the hp/lb is way higher than ever. My 93 f-350 has a 11,300 tow capacity and my buddy's 2013 F-150 has a 11,000....that tells you something, the "my dick is bigger than yours" is 90% of the problem. I'd buy a 5 cyl diesel 1/2 ton 4 door if it had a 8ft box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goinbroke2 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 .........pneumatic tires, hydraulic brakes, reverse gears, self-starters, real glass windows, a steering wheel instead of a tiller. The list just goes on and on............ Meh, reverse is over rated..I had a 67 falcon with no reverse I drove for almost a year...come to think of it I had to bump start it because I couldn't afford a battery back then...I guess self-starters are over rated too..LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 People drive 4 door trucks because 4 door, body on frame, rwd cars(wagons) which everybody used to use are no longer available. Trucks are the "new minivans". Don't even get me started on these pos trucks that have 4 doors but a 5ft box, if that's not a "high sitting car" I don't know what is. People who buy 4 door pickups would never buy a BOF rwd car or wagon. Period. They're people who want a truck but also need to carry other people comfortably. If anything they took sales away from mid-sized and full-sized SUVs. A F150 supercrew is basically an expedition with an open back end that can haul more stuff. Emissions are emissions, you don't take a 200hp engine and increase emission standards and end up with 300hp. Sure you do. When you make an engine more efficient it helps both emissions and power. Just look at the current 5.0L compared to the pushrod 5.0L that was making less than 300 hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 counterpoint, most Diesel tow truck and the like owners will tell you diesels like to be left running, what if they didn't cycle on and off and just when not needed idled and that idle was utilized to charge the battery.....aside from that I doubt a Diesel hybrid will ever see the light, emissions may kill diesels full stop, and then theres the COMBINED costs.... The advent of the particulate filter changed the rules. Now if you idle a diesel too much, you will have to do a "Parked Regeneration". In the big trucks, this is a 20-30 minute operation with the engine running 1800 rpm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Don't even get me started on these pos trucks that have 4 doors but a 5ft box, if that's not a "high sitting car" I don't know what is. Tell that to all the folks that tow travel trailers with theirs. It actually makes a pretty dam good tow vehicle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Tell that to all the folks that tow travel trailers with theirs. It actually makes a pretty dam good tow vehicle! That would be me. I have a F150 Super crew with 5 1/2 foot bed. The bed is big enough for most of what I need it for. And when it's not, a 6 1/2 or even a 8 foot bed usually won't do. I need a 10 foot trailer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 That would be me. I have a F150 Super crew with 5 1/2 foot bed. The bed is big enough for most of what I need it for. And when it's not, a 6 1/2 or even a 8 foot bed usually won't do. I need a 10 foot trailer. That was me as well until we upgraded to a fifth wheel, in which case I chose to upgrade to a 3/4 ton for the added safety margin. There were very few times when my 5.5' bed wouldn't do and a 6.5 would have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Tell that to all the folks that tow travel trailers with theirs. It actually makes a pretty dam good tow vehicle! And horse trailers. My dad (and I, when I'm not at the job that pays my bills*) sells horse-grade hay, so I get to see quite a few working trucks go through the hay barn, and I've seen a bunch of EcoBoosted SuperCrew F150s that have replaced 3/4-ton trucks because they can do the job, and do it more efficiently. (It's usually easy to tell an F150 that has replaced a 3/4-ton--just look the for gooseneck ball over the rear axle. It's a dead giveaway.) * Q: How do you make a small fortune in agriculture? A: Start with a big one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 There is such a thing as non horse-grade hay? And why can't you make hay at night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 There is such a thing as non horse-grade hay? And why can't you make hay at night? There are all different qualities of hay depending on the weed content, when the hay is cut in the growing season, the type of grass, etc. Horse owners tend to feed a higher quality of hay than cattle farmers. (SoonerLS I'm sure knows WAY more than I do). Hay is typically baled during the day to keep the moisture content down. Moisture in hay is a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Moisture in hay is a bad thing. Especially if you let your property insurance lapse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Especially if you let your property insurance lapse. Spontaneous combustion usually doesn't end well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) There are all different qualities of hay depending on the weed content, when the hay is cut in the growing season, the type of grass, etc. Horse owners tend to feed a higher quality of hay than cattle farmers. (SoonerLS I'm sure knows WAY more than I do). Hay is typically baled during the day to keep the moisture content down. Moisture in hay is a bad thing. Pretty much nailed it. Horse owners are particular about their hay; as James Herriot put it, horses are like big babies--they look tough, but it doesn't take much to put one down, and their owners can have a lot of money tied up in them. Cattle, on the other hand, really are as tough as they look, and will eat just about anything you can bale--I saw a lot of corn and winter wheat that didn't make get rolled up earlier this year, presumably for cattle, as horse owners won't touch it 'til there's nothing else left. Edited December 9, 2014 by SoonerLS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I guess that explains why you need to make hay while the sun shines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I guess that explains why you need to make hay while the sun shines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) I honestly would be happy if Ford and GM never put diesels in the F150. Nothing more pleasant on the way to work than the fresh smell of diesel filling your car from the truck in front of you. Edited December 9, 2014 by probowler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goinbroke2 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I honestly would be happy if Ford and GM never put diesels in the F150. Nothing more pleasant on the way to work than the fresh smell of diesel filling your car from the truck in front of you. First off, you can be happy because gm never will put a diesel in a f-150...or anything else for that matter... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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