RichardJensen Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 I like you Richard. I know I can type until my fingers bleed and never get you to move an inch on your opinion. That's cool, it's a BON thing. I will blast you back with a reminder the original Bronco had a removable top and was not a rebadged Jeep. Your turn. Yes. The original Bronco had a removable top. It didn't sell well enough for that feature to be retained. The 55-57 T-Birds which were to the Corvette what the first Bronco was to the Jeep did not sell nearly as well as the '58, which had its own unique value proposition. The whole point is the value proposition: If your value proposition is: "It's just like a Wrangler" you're going to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Yes. The original Bronco had a removable top. It didn't sell well enough for that feature to be retained. The Bronco retained the removable top through its lifespan IIRC. My parents had 3 Broncos ('78, '83, '90). Never was the top removed from any of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 IMHO, Everest is too big and heavy, and the platform it uses is too expensive, but I could be mistaken. IMHO, a shortened AWD Focus platform would produce a Bronco about the same size as the original, and keep the porkage down. With an AWD 2.3 EB and 330 hp or so and torque to match, one ride and you won't care about a Jeep anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) IMHO, Everest is too big and heavy, and the platform it uses is too expensive, but I could be mistaken. IMHO, a shortened AWD Focus platform would produce a Bronco about the same size as the original, and keep the porkage down. With an AWD 2.3 EB and 330 hp or so and torque to match, one ride and you won't care about a Jeep anything. That's a ridiculous thought. You mean to tell me you want to build an off road SUV on a compact car platform? Now that's hilarious. Shorten the platform and you wind up with the fiesta/Ecosport. There's no way that's happening. Edited February 17, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 IMHO, Everest is too big and heavy, and the platform it uses is too expensive, but I could be mistaken. IMHO, a shortened AWD Focus platform would produce a Bronco about the same size as the original, and keep the porkage down. With an AWD 2.3 EB and 330 hp or so and torque to match, one ride and you won't care about a Jeep anything. A hot rod CUV. No thanks. This is what happens to AWD CUVs on the Hatteras Island beaches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 tweek the global ranger platform would be my suggestion.....no reason we cant utilize those underpinnings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Another thought, what is with the fascination with the Focus platform? It's really not any better than any other platform ford has Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 A hot rod CUV. No thanks. This is what happens to AWD CUVs on the Hatteras Island beaches. Where does he have that tow strap hooked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) I don't see nearly as many Jeeps as I would expect to see, given that they're selling 175k/year. The removable hard top is obviously not a deal breaker for Jeep buyers---but you have to ask how many people 'put up' with that aspect of the Jeep experience, and how many people refrain from buying a Jeep for that reason. It's probably regional our Wranglers were/are soft top and opened frequently however my sister-in-law lives in Wyoming and her Wrangler is a hardtop. In the summer most around here especially on the beach are topless. Sometimes with a bikini or just the top section left on as a sun shade. If it rains the interior is made to hose out so it doesn't matter. That's another reason Wranglers don"t have a quiet ride no insulation at all but easy to get sand, mud or whatever out. Edited February 17, 2015 by F250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Where does he have that tow strap hooked? Roll bar. Don't ask me why, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Roll bar. Don't ask me why, Must be a true hard-core off-roader! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Must be a true hard-core off-roader! Looks like that's what that lame CUV needed. My assumption is the CUV was buried deep in the sand sitting on the pan and attaching high on the bar gave some lift while pulling that car out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Another thought, what is with the fascination with the Focus platform? It's really not any better than any other platform ford has Because with the RS, it's AWD capable, and IMHO is a better width than the Fiesta platform for the North American obesity problem, yet it's not too big with too much porkage for Rest of World sales, and would probably be cheaper to do in North America than building and setting up all the tooling necessary for a Bronco derived from the Everest or Ranger. Also because it allows the usage of Ford's latest AWD technology and the 2.0/2.3 engines and maybe the 2.7. Put a Bronco top hat on a shortened version of the next Focus platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Looks like that's what that lame CUV needed. My assumption is the CUV was buried deep in the sand sitting on the pan and attaching high on the bar gave some lift while pulling that car out. That was my guess as well, but the rollbar is a tad high. Probably not good for the Jeep or for safety's sake. Not exactly the strongest point for lateral forces I wouldn't think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 That was my guess as well, but the rollbar is a tad high. Probably not good for the Jeep or for safety's sake. Not exactly the strongest point for lateral forces I wouldn't think... That and sometimes...don't quote me on this... it may be hard to believe but people drink a little beer while they're on the beach. And it may impair their judgement. Plus the Yahoo factor must be accounted for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Because with the RS, it's AWD capable, and IMHO is a better width than the Fiesta platform for the North American obesity problem, yet it's not too big with too much porkage for Rest of World sales, and would probably be cheaper to do in North America than building and setting up all the tooling necessary for a Bronco derived from the Everest or Ranger. Also because it allows the usage of Ford's latest AWD technology and the 2.0/2.3 engines and maybe the 2.7. Put a Bronco top hat on a shortened version of the next Focus platform. You obviously haven't been in the back seat of one. I'm 5'10" 175lb and I have a very hard time getting back there. Shorten the wheelbase up you have nothing left. Also, where exactly in North America are you going to build it? Edited February 17, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Because with the RS, it's AWD capable, and IMHO is a better width than the Fiesta platform for the North American obesity problem, yet it's not too big with too much porkage for Rest of World sales, and would probably be cheaper to do in North America than building and setting up all the tooling necessary for a Bronco derived from the Everest or Ranger. Also because it allows the usage of Ford's latest AWD technology and the 2.0/2.3 engines and maybe the 2.7. Put a Bronco top hat on a shortened version of the next Focus platform. No offense (really) but I don't think you understand the target segment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 That and sometimes...don't quote me on this... it may be hard to believe but people drink a little beer while they're on the beach. And it may impair their judgement. Plus the Yahoo factor must be accounted for. Surely not alcohol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Because with the RS, it's AWD capable, and IMHO is a better width than the Fiesta platform for the North American obesity problem, yet it's not too big with too much porkage for Rest of World sales, and would probably be cheaper to do in North America than building and setting up all the tooling necessary for a Bronco derived from the Everest or Ranger. Also because it allows the usage of Ford's latest AWD technology and the 2.0/2.3 engines and maybe the 2.7. Put a Bronco top hat on a shortened version of the next Focus platform. ...and what separates it from any other small CUV out there (besides... I'm assuming... styling)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 No offense (really) but I don't think you understand the target segment. You are probably 100% correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 ...and what separates it from any other small CUV out there (besides... I'm assuming... styling)? I'm sorry, I thought "Put a Bronco top hat on a shortened version of the next Focus platform." was self-explanatory. Call it styling, if you want, sure. Now as to "what separates it from any other small CUV out there", that depends on the desire to use a 330hp 2.3 and long-travel struts and active suspension and maybe even the 2.7 for an "RS"-level model. With the exception of the Porsche Macan, AFAIK, there would be no other similar-size CUV with that kind of off-road Raptor-type performance, but I could be mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) I'm sorry, I thought "Put a Bronco top hat on a shortened version of the next Focus platform." was self-explanatory. Call it styling, if you want, sure. Now as to "what separates it from any other small CUV out there", that depends on the desire to use a 330hp 2.3 and long-travel struts and active suspension and maybe even the 2.7 for an "RS"-level model. With the exception of the Porsche Macan, AFAIK, there would be no other similar-size CUV with that kind of off-road Raptor-type performance, but I could be mistaken. What is your price point? ...and why should I buy it over a Wrangler? Which, mind you... does not have Raptor-type performance...it's a rock crawler go-anywhere vehicle, while the Raptor is a desert pre-runner. What is your target audience (that wants a Raptor-type CUV)? Edited February 17, 2015 by Intrepidatious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddysystem Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Ford could always just build Wranglers alongside Jeep just like they did back in WWII. There was Willys Jeeps and there was Ford Jeeps. The next Wrangler is supposed to be aluminum bodied. Perhaps Ford could help with that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) I don't think we need an exact Wrangler copy or even removable doors and or roof. But it does need to be built on a good stout chassis (not an AWD unibody sedan chassis adapted with long travel struts) with strong axles so that it will accept oversize tires and differential lockers and other aftermarket mods. Also a low range gear is a must. It needs to provide truck like utility. For example, here's my 92 explorer sport with about 5000 lbs of firewood behind it in a wagon. I was dragging this through the forest trails on my property gathering wood last fall. 4-Lo was mandatory and the big 31 spline 8.8 / Dana 35 allow it to put up with such without detriment. This is a real world use for these things and Ford would do well to consider this type of use when they go to design something. Edited February 17, 2015 by Sevensecondsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Probably the best post I've seen on BON in a long time. Thank you. We sometimes can be intolerant of other opinions around here, or at least it comes off that way in writing. If we were all sitting around having a beer and talking cars/trucks/bikes it would be less abrasive. Expression, body language and tone make a difference. Good comparison with the motorcycles. I've had a few of those to, loved those British bikes (Triumph) and as far as performance you cant beat a bang-for-your-buck ride like the Triumph Speed Triple. But I'm 6'1" and old so I find my Harley Wide Glide fun these days. Besides, I'm partial to American machines. My black Wide glide and my wife's pink flamed 1200 Sportster: Thanks for the kind words! And - Nice bikes! I am glad that someone understood what I was trying to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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