fuzzymoomoo Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Do you really believe that the ATS and CTS platform is profitable for GM? The plant has been idled for weeks to clear out excess inventory (the fixed costs of that plant don't go away just because production has stopped). GM has had to pile on the incentives to move the metal. I'm wondering what that move will ultimately do to the average transaction price of these cars. I'm sure that the Camaro will help with costs, but I've read on another site that, even if the Camaro sells well, the total volume on that platform will be a little over half of what GM needs for it to make money. The reason the plant has been idled is because in their infinite wisdom, GM massively overproduced the versions of the CTS/ATS that people don't want (2.0T) which they are already overcharging for and are still very reluctant to put any incentives on them. The only thing they can do to bring the ATPs up to where they should be to make the platform profitable is another redesign that hopefully people will buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 The only thing they can do to bring the ATPs up to where they should be to make the platform profitable is another redesign that hopefully people will buy. How about this, make the ATS platform available for Buick and Chevy to use...I think a Grand National and a SS sedan or whatever that run about 35-45K would sell in decent numbers to help with profits. That is what the problem is with Caddy...it makes no sense to sell Caddy's on their own platforms since they'll never see the return on that investment. Better off making a really good cheaper platform you can make Buicks or Chevy's on and also make Caddys on also. Oh sorta like what Ford is doing...they have solid platforms that get driven to the next level by Lincoln... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 How about this, make the ATS platform available for Buick and Chevy to use...I think a Grand National and a SS sedan or whatever that run about 35-45K would sell in decent numbers to help with profits. That is what the problem is with Caddy...it makes no sense to sell Caddy's on their own platforms since they'll never see the return on that investment. Better off making a really good cheaper platform you can make Buicks or Chevy's on and also make Caddys on also. Oh sorta like what Ford is doing...they have solid platforms that get driven to the next level by Lincoln... In other words, exactly what we've all been saying for months now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) The only thing they can do to bring the ATPs up to where they should be to make the platform profitable is another redesign that hopefully people will buy. But isn't that going to run up even MORE costs? That is what the problem is with Caddy...it makes no sense to sell Caddy's on their own platforms since they'll never see the return on that investment. Better off making a really good cheaper platform you can make Buicks or Chevy's on and also make Caddys on also. I thought that the problem with that approach is that making the platform cheap enough to be used on Chevrolets and Buicks requires compromises that make it less competitive against comparable German cars. (This is assuming, of course, that GM management still wants Cadillac to be the American BMW.) The BMW 3-Series and 5-Series, and the Mercedes C-Class and E-Class, don't share platforms with less expensive brethren, which means that they can avoid those compromises. Edited March 9, 2015 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 The only thing they can do to bring the ATPs up to where they should be to make the platform profitable is another redesign that hopefully people will buy. What would a redesign do to help ATPs? There's nothing terribly wrong with the cars as is. The only thing that would raise ATPs is to cut production and offer some higher end expensive options like the Revel Audio system that Lincoln is doing for $4K. Of course that just makes it even more difficult to recover the platform costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I thought that the problem with that approach is that making the platform cheap enough to be used on Chevrolets and Buicks requires compromises that make it less competitive against comparable German cars. It might make them less competitive on a racetrack but they'd sell a hell of a lot more units with better margins AND significantly lower platform costs. Once you have the high volume bread and butter stuff squared away and you have profits to work with, then you can pursue a few niche vehicles and price them accordingly without worrying about volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 How about this, make the ATS platform available for Buick and Chevy to use...I think a Grand National and a SS sedan or whatever that run about 35-45K would sell in decent numbers to help with profits. I believe something is in the works along those lines, along with Camaro. That is what the problem is with Caddy...it makes no sense to sell Caddy's on their own platforms since they'll never see the return on that investment. Better off making a really good cheaper platform you can make Buicks or Chevy's on and also make Caddys on also. What current Cadillac is on it's own platform?. if a Chevy/Buick is on the Caddys platform, won't that make it an great Chevy/Buick instead of the other way around and making a crappy Cadillac? . Oh sorta like what Ford is doing...they have solid platforms that get driven to the next level by Lincoln... Where's those "dynamic" Lincolns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) It might make them less competitive on a racetrack but they'd sell a hell of a lot more units with better margins AND significantly lower platform costs. Once you have the high volume bread and butter stuff squared away and you have profits to work with, then you can pursue a few niche vehicles and price them accordingly without worrying about volume. You're correct, but that approach just won't do when top management suffers from a serious case of "BMW Envy." Edited March 9, 2015 by grbeck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 The reason the plant has been idled is because in their infinite wisdom, GM massively overproduced the versions of the CTS/ATS that people don't want (2.0T) which they are already overcharging for and are still very reluctant to put any incentives on them. The only thing they can do to bring the ATPs up to where they should be to make the platform profitable is another redesign that hopefully people will buy. As someone mentioned before a redesign will drive cost up on something that haven't been paid off yet, the ATP is being met . The engine problem as i think GM is aware is the output and engine configuration you get isn't on par with some competition in which Cadillac is getting their own versions of GM engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 What would a redesign do to help ATPs? There's nothing terribly wrong with the cars as is. The only thing that would raise ATPs is to cut production and offer some higher end expensive options like the Revel Audio system that Lincoln is doing for $4K. Of course that just makes it even more difficult to recover the platform costs. It's simple, their BMW chaser formula isn't working. Besides, I'm using GM logic here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 So how about that next gen Malibu? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 The engine problem as i think GM is aware is the output and engine configuration you get isn't on par with some competition in which Cadillac is getting their own versions of GM engines. If you think the problem is engine output then you're just as clueless as GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 If you think the problem is engine output then you're just as clueless as GM. And you as hopeless as Lincoln.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I believe something is in the works along those lines, along with Camaro. I think the Buick Avenir concept is a hint of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 What current Cadillac is on it's own platform?. if a Chevy/Buick is on the Caddys platform, won't that make it an great Chevy/Buick instead of the other way around and making a crappy Cadillac? . Your talking out of both sides of your mouth now.... The point is that Luxury cars can be successfully made using regular platforms (see most Lexus' and Infiniti models) and don't need their own bespoke platforms to be successful. Caddy would be better off coming out with a FWD car based off the Malibu instead of the ATS as its entry level car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Back to the Malibu, I hear awd and a police pursuit model will be options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Still no one has answered what they'll do with Impala. If Malibu is going to be just as big as the current Impy, do they move the latter to the big RWD platform? I actually would not have a problem with that on either the consumer or (superficially) the business end... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Still no one has answered what they'll do with Impala. If Malibu is going to be just as big as the current Impy, do they move the latter to the big RWD platform? I actually would not have a problem with that on either the consumer or (superficially) the business end... Good question. I haven't heard hide nor hair about Impala. It's been out for what 2 years and now what, move to another platform? I could say Impala doesn't get much air time but same with Taurus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 You are assuming that they knew what they'll do wtih Impala. I assume the new Imapala will soldier on and takeover for the old Impala, whenever they finally put that old girl down. Enterprise will still want big cars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Do they still have 2 Impalas? Or just 1? Should they add a third? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Why 3 when you could have 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 Good question. I haven't heard hide nor hair about Impala. It's been out for what 2 years and now what, move to another platform? I could say Impala doesn't get much air time but same with Taurus. Expect an Omega big Chevy to replace all 4 cars (Impala,SS,Caprice,fleet Impala). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Expect an Omega big Chevy to replace all 4 cars (Impala,SS,Caprice,fleet Impala). Five. LaCrosse. Because where the Malibu goes, there goes the Regal. EDIT for clarification: I mean to say that you may as well add a big Buick into the program. Edited March 13, 2015 by papilgee4evaeva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 Five. LaCrosse. Because where the Malibu goes, there goes the Regal. EDIT for clarification: I mean to say that you may as well add a big Buick into the program. Actually the Lacrosse is staying fwd as the largest Epslion platform car, just the Omega Buick (probably Park Avenue) will be above it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehaase Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 GM should just drop the 2.5L Impala when the new Malibu debuts. I wouldn't expect a new Impala before the 2019 model year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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