Anthony Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 For the correlation folks out there....you'll love this website http://www.tylervigen.com/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Wow. This thread took a weird detour. does this really surprise you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I think we're being trolled. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) So, about that lighter Mazda6... Yes, I know they don't produce it to the scale that they produce the top five sellers here, but still... since it was brought up repeatedly, there should be something said about it, right? Edited April 14, 2015 by papilgee4evaeva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Mazda is the scribes darling when it comes to curb weight...but read their critiques, and theres something that pops up in every Mazda compare....ROAD NOISE................guess where they saved weight...theres that compromise again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Wow. This thread took a weird detour. I forgot, what was the topic? BONADD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 it would seem as if Biker wants Ford to build its cars using super expensive and hard to mass-produce carbon fiber then watch car prices soar overnight But the F-150 proves that light weight materials can be used for FREE!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) How does the extra "needless" weight affect sales? It doesn't. Nobody looks at curb weights or 0-60 times on a midsized family sedan. But they do pay attention to the feel of the doors when you close them and the 'vault-like' interior of said vehicles. you assume the better selling competition have issues with NVH because of their Lighter Weight, the truth is the Camry and Accord always beat Ford in NVH and they are lighter than the Fusion. I guess they have a magic Wand. I am Blown away by the Responses, all I hear is Denial, excuse, and displacement. When the Camaro weighed 200lbs more than the 2014 mustang it was called a Pig, Boners were proud of the "Superior" agility of the mustang vs it's heavier foe. Where is the outrage about the weight of the Fusion? Like I said 10 pages ago what will ford's response be the New Malibu's lighter weight? Edited April 14, 2015 by Biker16 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 you assume the better selling competition have issues with NVH because of their Lighter Weight, the truth is the Camry and Accord always beat Ford in NVH and they are lighter than the Fusion. I guess they have a magic Wand. Let's revisit this issue when Ford brings to market an architecture engineered from the ground up to be sold on both sides of the Atlantic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Let's revisit this issue when Ford brings to market an architecture engineered from the ground up to be sold on both sides of the Atlantic. I Hope you are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 quick question....prove they sell better because they are "lighter"...and by TRIVIAL amounts...but keep beating that horse Biker....also, enjoy replacing belts when cam chains soldier on......( IIRC it used to be the major reason their engines were deemed smoother..) and PPS, get back to us in regards to road noise and bump thump... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 the truth is the Camry and Accord always beat Ford in NVH and they are lighter than the Fusion. I guess they have a magic Wand. You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you. MotorTrend seems to agree. I didn't go looking for others but no reason to think they're different. It's probably the quietest car in the group, with minimal wind and road noise intruding on the cabin. Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1212_2012_2013_midsize_sedan_comparison/ford_fusion.html#ixzz3XJed8Dfz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 but wait............I mean weight............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) Aneekr, I know for a fact you took stats in college. You can't get a degree in engineering without taking stats. Heck, you can't *understand* engineering without understanding certain fundamentals of statistics. Assuming, first of all, that the curb weights you're reporting are even remotely reflective of the most popular configurations---much less a sales-weighted average, the correlation between weights and sales is -.27. That's predictive of absolutely nothing. --- And if curb weight is not even remotely connected to sales success, please explain to me why it should be a higher priority for Ford than other more important factors? You are correct about coursework in statistics and random variables being a part of engineering curriculums, and about lack of any direct relationship between curb weights of midsize sedan models and sales trends. I noted the latter in post #269. While I did take a business statistics course, I did not pursue studies in any engineering field, nor have I worked as an engineer. Anyway, weight reduction for passenger cars and light trucks is a very high priority for all automakers, including Ford. Regulatory factors - especially those related to emissions and fuel consumption - are particularly significant here, but weight reduction results in numerous other benefits, as Biker16 mentioned in this thread. There are numerous tracks devoted to the topic at SAE 2015 World Congress, which begins next week in Detroit. So, you are saying the point you were trying to make with your numbers is that your point is false? No. The point is clearly stated in the first sentence of post #269. The examples that follow corroborate it. So, about that lighter Mazda6... Yes, I know they don't produce it to the scale that they produce the top five sellers here, but still... since it was brought up repeatedly, there should be something said about it, right? GJ (third generation) Mazda6 offers the most engaging driving dynamics in its class, due in no small part to Mazda's holistic SKYACTIV strategy that emphasizes mass optimization. Mazda could easily sell more of these excellent cars in the U.S. market if not for capacity constraints at their assembly plants in Hiroshima and Hofu, Japan. Edited April 14, 2015 by aneekr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) ....also, enjoy replacing belts when cam chains soldier on...... You mean like the cam belts used in Ford's not so smooth 1.5L and 1.6L Ecoboost engines? Edited April 14, 2015 by aneekr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 GJ (third generation) Mazda6 offers the most engaging driving dynamics in its class It is not wise for Ford to base its business decisions on the choices made by a much smaller company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) When the Camaro weighed 200lbs more than the 2014 mustang it was called a Pig, Boners were proud of the "Superior" agility of the mustang vs it's heavier foe Where is the outrage about the weight of the Fusion? Are you seriously trying to compare the reaction to the weight of a family sedan, where weight is irrelevant to pretty much every buyer, with the reaction to the weight of a performance car, where weight is a key factor in the car's performance? Seriously? Edited April 14, 2015 by SoonerLS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 @aneeker...did they too stoop to cheapness in leiu of durability? ARG! Also, just read an article on Jags upcoming 3 series competitor....EXTENSIVE use of Aluminum....and guess what.....3500 plus pounds..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Trolling, trolling, trolling..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 You mean like the cam belts used in Ford's not so smooth 1.5L and 1.6L Ecoboost engines? Cam belts that run in oil don't normally need replacing as often as the older dry belt systems like 2.0 Pinto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I know they are still used in the 2.0 no?....even my 1.6 ST has reverted to lubricated belts...although service interval is 150000 miles, I remember my exs Acuras was 60 k, she didn't do it and BLAMMO!...interference engine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 You mean like the cam belts used in Ford's not so smooth 1.5L and 1.6L Ecoboost engines? Do you have anything useful to add to this discussion, or are you going to continue to phrase uncited and subjective comments from third parties as though they were fact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I stand corrected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnostic Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I dont get why all the argument about weight? It seems everyone here wants heavier cars. Lighter is better. Does it sell more because its lighter? Its not the only factor but is plays a roll. If I remenber correctly Mullaly's goal was to build the safest , most reliable and most fuel efficient cars. Being lighter is a key aspect of that goal. It seems like a lot of arguing for arguments sake going on here lately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 But it has to be taken in context. Is it better to have a 5 star crash rating or a 4 star rating with 100 lbs less weight? Is it better to have the quiestest interior or noisy but 100 lbs lighter? TANSTAAFL. Is it worth spending an extra $1K per vehicle to save 200 lbs? Weight is a factor but it's one of many and outside of high performance sports cars or work trucks it's just not as important as the other things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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