twintornados Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 No way no how. At worst they would simply not raise the truck standards. Or, Ford would sell a lot of fuel efficient full-size trucks.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 You guys are underestimating the GM faithful. They are not reasonable people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 You guys are underestimating the GM faithful. They are not reasonable people. The biggest buyers are fleets....they don't care what it says on the hood as long as it is the least expensive. They won't march on Washington, they will march over to the next manufacturer that has the lowest price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 You know what would instantly bring an end to CAFE? Imagine if GM announced there will be no more Silverado/Sierra due to the fact that they can no longer meet CAFE. Overnight there would be angry mobs of millions of pitchfork-wielding GM truck loyalists marching on DC. Congress would repeal the whole thing before the mobs even arrived. Maybe that's GM's long term plan for CAFE. Well, if GM does that, it will just shoot itself in the foot and CAFE will still be around. GM's balance sheet will implode if it stops selling pickup trucks. CAFE has what is known as the "Mercedes" loophole. if GM can't meet CAFE target, it just means GM has to pay a fine. GM will pay a fine before it will stop selling fullsize pickup trucks. If GM says it will stop selling pickup trucks, there won't be any angry mob... just lots of ridicule and a complete PR disaster. Not to mention a financial one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 CAFE has what is known as the "Mercedes" loophole. if GM can't meet CAFE target, it just means GM has to pay a fine. GM will pay a fine before it will stop selling fullsize pickup trucks. From my understanding, that loophole is going away. If you don't meet CAFE, you don't sell. Period. Well, except for a few that don't sell many vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 You guys are taking my post way too seriously. Lighten up a bit and laugh once in a while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 How about this one....given the drumbeat of Bronco rumors that are going around...why not have a small pickup based on that? It would check all the boxes...it would be an actual compact pickup truck (I'd expect the new Bronco to be in between the Escape and Edge in size) and share its platform with something that would command "real" money, since I can see the Bronco getting into the 30K range nicely loaded. You could expect something like that to sell around 150K units a year without much effort. I personally like the idea but the problem is that Ford would most likely base it on some FWD platfrom like the Escape or possibly the Transit. No way would a FWD Bronco be worth a crap. Not even worth entertaining the thought unless its going to be RWD with both 2 and 4 wheel drive options, respectable ground clearance and a bevy of engine options ranging from the 2.7 to the 3.5 and even a 5.0 option. With the way car corporations are operated now, Ford is not going to do this. Now a full size 2 door Bronco on the F150 regular cab chassis would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) The going rumor is that a Bronco is currently being developed based on the Troller platform (which is a smaller RWD/4x4 and BOF platform from Ford's Brazil operations). I know, I too will believe it when I see it as I've lost a lot of faith in Ford's ability to produce such a vehicle for NA in the last several years. But If it does come true, a new ranger on the same platform would make a ton of sense. Edited June 4, 2015 by Sevensecondsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) The going rumor is that a Bronco is currently being developed based on the Troller platform (which is a smaller RWD/4x4 and BOF platform from Ford's Brazil operations). I know, I too will believe it when I see it as I've lost a lot of faith in Ford's ability to produce such a vehicle for NA in the last several years. But If it does come true, a new ranger on the same platform would make a ton of sense. I haven't seen the troller platform but if it's RWD and has decent ground clearance it should work. The problem in America is that SUV's are made for women and therefore they aren't really true SUV's in the traditional sense. Aside from the Xterra and the 4 Runner I can't think of a single SUV on the American market in the mainstream price range that isn't just a glorified mommy mobile FWD station wagon. This happens because when people go to buy new cars more often than not the wife gets the new car and the husband gets some hand me down. So SUV's have been wussified to suit women who just want the look of an SUV but not a real SUV. This is why we have a glut of FWD unibody SUV's on the market that are really just station wagons. Men tend to buy pickup trucks because a truck is still a manly type vehicle. They are rugged and well built and they are about the only mainstream vehicle left that doesn't just scream "mommy mobile." PS, I would say you could add the Tahoe and the Excursion to the list of "manly" SUV's but from an offroad perspective the Xterra and 4 Runner would be the better choice. The Tahoe and the Excursion are really too long for any serious off road work. Sorry I said Excursion but I mean to say Expedition. Edited June 5, 2015 by BlackHorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Glorified Mommy Mobile? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Glorified Mommy Mobile? Yea, you can run on down to "fantasy car lot" and find those all over the place here in the States. Although it does obviously favor a Jeep Wrangler which I would say qualifies as a manly type SUV, even more so than the Nissan and 4 Runner. Edited June 5, 2015 by BlackHorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 It's no Corolla off-road, but it does pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) It's no Corolla off-road, but it does pretty well. That's good to know, in the picture you posted I wouldn't give it much more than trail work because those tires are not up to it. Edited June 5, 2015 by BlackHorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The Troller has about as many off-road chops as you're going to find on this side of mainstream-priced and street legal, including a diesel engine, 6 spd manual, and solid Dana axles. If it's actually true that a Bronco is being developed from the Troller, it will be interesting to see just how much DNA it keeps by the time it makes to dealership lots here in the states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The Troller has about as many off-road chops as you're going to find on this side of mainstream-priced and street legal, including a diesel engine, 6 spd manual, and solid Dana axles. If it's actually true that a Bronco is being developed from the Troller, it will be interesting to see just how much DNA it keeps by the time it makes to dealership lots here in the states. Well I think you can axe the diesel option right off the top. Ford here in the States is averse to putting a diesel motor in anything south of an F250 for some reason. Other than that I think it would be easy enough to keep the rest of that list of options. The South Koreans are already making noise about bringing a Wrangler competitor to the US market so anything is possible. In keeping with the standard operating mantra at these car companies, however, I wouldn't be surprised to see it have a starting price of 30 grand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Troller did make a mid-size Troller T-4 based pickup truck called Pantanal...but according to the wiki page, the entire run of 77 (yes, 77 units) were recalled by Ford and bought back due to frames cracking. 77 units from 2006 to 2008....and we wonder why Ford is a little gun shy about bringing another Ranger to the North American market... The Pantanal is a mid-size pickup truck made by the Brazilian off-road vehicle manufacturer Troller Veículos Especiais S/A from 2006 to 2008. Only 77 Pantanal trucks were built, and all were recalled in February 2008 due to the possibility of cracks forming in the chassis.[1]Ford, the current owner of Troller, announced that they would take back all 77 trucks, thus making the Pantanal obsolete unless an owner wished to keep their Pantanal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I personally like the idea but the problem is that Ford would most likely base it on some FWD platfrom like the Escape or possibly the Transit. No way would a FWD Bronco be worth a crap. Not even worth entertaining the thought unless its going to be RWD with both 2 and 4 wheel drive options, respectable ground clearance and a bevy of engine options ranging from the 2.7 to the 3.5 and even a 5.0 option. With the way car corporations are operated now, Ford is not going to do this. Now a full size 2 door Bronco on the F150 regular cab chassis would be awesome. Isn't that basically an Ecosport? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 That's good to know, in the picture you posted I wouldn't give it much more than trail work because those tires are not up to it. Are they any different than stock tires on a Wrangler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) For Blackhorse's sake I'm hoping Bronco is based on T6 Ranger/Everest, perhaps a SWB, 2-door version off T6 Everest? Nice diesel engines and maybe an Ecoboost ot two.. Like Troller, that could come from South America... Edited June 5, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 It would be cheaper for Ford to just buy Jeep from FCA than to try to make a viable Jeep Wrangler competitor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Isn't that basically an Ecosport? No it's not. An Ecosport is a FWD B3 unibody chassis for compact cars. As I stated that would be an out of the box failure for a new Bronco. Edited June 5, 2015 by BlackHorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Are they any different than stock tires on a Wrangler? Nope. What you thought Jeep put serious tires on the Wrangler? No. Jeep is just like every other car company. They give customers the bare minimum they can get away with for nice fat price tags. Most Jeep owners who are serious about going off road ditch the stock wheels and tires in short order. In a similar comparison, the Pirelli tires that Ford puts on the Mustang are pretty much junk. Most Mustang owners ditch them after they wear down their first set and go with another brand. Edited June 5, 2015 by BlackHorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 For Blackhorse's sake I'm hoping Bronco is based on T6 Ranger/Everest, perhaps a SWB, 2-door version off T6 Everest? Nice diesel engines and maybe an Ecoboost ot two.. Like Troller, that could come from South America... Personally I would rather see a 2 door full size Bronco based on an F50 regular cab chassis. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) double post Edited June 5, 2015 by BlackHorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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