rmc523 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I think it's a combo of all of that, leading to low sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 A better question is why Ford NA knew that Ecosport was not a good fit for its market. Bottom line is that it really doesn't compare well to Focus hatch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 A better question is why Ford NA knew that Ecosport was not a good fit for its market. Bottom line is that it really doesn't compare well to Focus hatch. Because maybe it thought that B-class SUV market wasn't going to take off in North America/EU and it already had the Escape which more or less fills the C range SUV market? From what I saw Trax and Encore sales where dipping the last few months in NA. Seems like the Ecosport was done with the thinking it was just going to be for emerging markets like China, Brazil, and India, like Figo...the but the Figo/Escort have more refinement since they are based on last gen products made for 1st world markets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Because maybe it thought that B-class SUV market wasn't going to take off in North America/EU and it already had the Escape which more or less fills the C range SUV market? From what I saw Trax and Encore sales where dipping the last few months in NA. Seems like the Ecosport was done with the thinking it was just going to be for emerging markets like China, Brazil, and India, like Figo...the but the Figo/Escort have more refinement since they are based on last gen products made for 1st world markets. Encore sales is slowing because it is a 3 year old car now... it's supposed to slow. Trax sales is probably negatively impacted by Honda HR-V. EcoSport is based on the Fiesta so it's not inherently "cheap". It's just the design and execution fell short of 1st world expectation. Edited July 13, 2015 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Relevant news: Nissan will introduce SWB Qashqai to complement LWB Rouge. That makes Nissan the 4th company in the US to sell both short and long version C-segment CUVs in the US. Mitsubishi Outlander Sport + Outlander Subaru VX + Forester Jeep Compass/Patriot + Cherokee Nissan Qashqai + Rouge http://www.autonews.com/article/20150713/RETAIL/307139917/nissan-will-boost-production-by-100k-units-add-two-variants BTW, Nissan is projecting 300,000 unit sales for both Rouge and Qashqai... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Or conversely, would an "XV" cost that much more than a Focus hatch? It will cost more to make, but if it isn't looked at in isolation, the cost of the AWD system can and should be share with The RS, and more pedestrian AWD focus models. The greatest Development cost will be in redesigning The front and rear suspension models to Jack the vehicle up. Beyond cost, this variant will have a much higher ASP than the mainstream focus. Does the XV Focus eliminate the need for the EcoSport? no it does not. A better question is why Ford NA knew that Ecosport was not a good fit for its market. Bottom line is that it really doesn't compare well to Focus hatch. Great Question, how short sighted do they look now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 What is this supposed "explosion" of cute utes based on other than sheer speculation? Given the low prices and profit levels, is Ford really missing anything by not having Ecosport available now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 What is this supposed "explosion" of cute utes based on other than sheer speculation? Given the low prices and profit levels, is Ford really missing anything by not having Ecosport available now? the Trax base price is $20k, 3,000 higher than the Focus and 6,000 higher than the Fiesta. having a fiesta based CUV like the Ecosport would be far more profitable than the fiesta, and likely more profitable than the Escape and the same price point. this is what it always has been, CUVs are more profitable because they command a high price, than the Sedans they are based upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 the Trax base price is $20k, 3,000 higher than the Focus and 6,000 higher than the Fiesta. having a fiesta based CUV like the Ecosport would be far more profitable than the fiesta, and likely more profitable than the Escape and the same price point. this is what it always has been, CUVs are more profitable because they command a high price, than the Sedans they are based upon. Yeah but at that same price point, there is a clear overlap with the Escape, which starts at $22,960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Yeah but at that same price point, there is a clear overlap with the Escape, which starts at $22,960 Escape overlaps with Edge too... Edge overlaps with Explorer. Earth revolves around the sun. The world doesn't end... $20k Ecosport is a step up vehicle for people coming out of a $17k Focus from a few years ago. Just like $25k Escape is similarly positioned vs. midsize sedan replacement buyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 But a $20k eco sport would still be on the low end of the profit totem pole. Just like fiestas. The volumes would have to be huge to provide the ROI of other vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Escape overlaps with Edge too... Edge overlaps with Explorer. Earth revolves around the sun. The world doesn't end... $20k Ecosport is a step up vehicle for people coming out of a $17k Focus from a few years ago. Just like $25k Escape is similarly positioned vs. midsize sedan replacement buyers. The difference in overlap is huge though. A fully loaded Escape Titanium overlaps with the base model Edge. The scenario Biker posed essentially made the Escape and Ecosport the same price. That will never fly. If you think the Focus is overpriced (and I have heard that complaint more than I care to), that would bring new meaning to the term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 But a $20k eco sport would still be on the low end of the profit totem pole. Just like fiestas. The volumes would have to be huge to provide the ROI of other vehicles. The Escape would be less profitable than the ECosport at the same price point. so selling an EcoSport at 23k would make more monet than an Escape at 23k, because it Ecosport is based on a lower cost base architecture than the Escape. The volume of the Ecosport is already huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 The Escape would be less profitable than the ECosport at the same price point. so selling an EcoSport at 23k would make more monet than an Escape at 23k, because it Ecosport is based on a lower cost base architecture than the Escape. The volume of the Ecosport is already huge. It's not huge in North America which is the topic of discussion here. It's nonexistent, and Fiesta sales are nothing to get excited about either. A nicely equipped Escape at 27K is a better comparison to a fully loaded Ecosport at 23K. Don't assume people buy solely on price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) The difference in overlap is huge though. A fully loaded Escape Titanium overlaps with the base model Edge. The scenario Biker posed essentially made the Escape and Ecosport the same price. That will never fly. If you think the Focus is overpriced (and I have heard that complaint more than I care to), that would bring new meaning to the term. Stop, you are making silly contradictory arguments. $23k EcoSport will be either SE AWD with options or Titanium FWD while the $23k Escape is the base S FWD model. So how is any different than a $30k Escape Titanium vs. Edge SE? Ecosport will probably start at $19k (S FWD) and goes up to $26k (Titanium AWD) - see MSRP for Honda HR-V or Chevy Trax for comparison Escape base MSRP starts at $23,450 (S FWD) and goes up to $31,485 (Titanium AWD) Edge base MSRP starts at $28,100 (SE FWD) and goes up to $40,095 (Sport AWD) Explorer base MSRP starts at $30,700 (base FWD) and goes up to $52,600 (Platinum AWD) Edited July 14, 2015 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) Stop, you are making silly contradictory arguments. $23k EcoSport will be either SE AWD with options or Titanium FWD while the $23k Escape is the base S FWD model. So how is any different than a $30k Escape Titanium vs. Edge SE? Ecosport will probably start at $19k (S FWD) and goes up to $26k (Titanium AWD) - see MSRP for Honda HR-V or Chevy Trax for comparison Escape base MSRP starts at $23,450 (S FWD) and goes up to $31,485 (Titanium AWD) Edge base MSRP starts at $28,100 (SE FWD) and goes up to $40,095 (Sport AWD) Explorer base MSRP starts at $30,700 (base FWD) and goes up to $52,600 (Platinum AWD) You and I are in agreement dude. What I was commenting on was Bikers ridiculous notion that because the Trax and Encore both START at 23k (edit: sorry 20k), the Ecosport should too. Edited July 14, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 It's not huge in North America which is the topic of discussion here. It's nonexistent, and Fiesta sales are nothing to get excited about either. But a potential Ecosport with proper US market friendly execution and designs could sell a lot more... Honda sold almost 8,000 HR-V last month (and 14k in 45 days since mid May). We are on pace to see this segment boom to 300,000 units on annualized basis by September (~4,000 monthly sales from each of the volume competitors: Buick, Chevy, Jeep, Fiat, Honda, Mazda; ~2,000 monthly sales each from Nissan and Mini). When I made that prediction last year in another EcoSport thread, let's just say there were plenty of doubters. YTD sales Buick Encore 30,549 Chevy Trax 24,815 Nissan Juke 14,647 Jeep Renegade 14,431 (since April) Honda HR-V 14,141 (since Mid May) Mini Countryman/Pacman 9,116 Fiat 500X 332 (just went on sale) Mazda CX-3 (on sale mid summer) Total B-segment CUV YTD 108,031 Not counting Kia Soul (67,986), which is sort of the same thing as the others but lacks AWD option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 That's what I was asking - are we seeing sales numbers that back up the "exploding segment" claim? I don't count Juke, Soul, Fiat or Mini - those are niche products on their own. But that's a pretty strong showing from Trax, Renegade and HR-V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 It's not huge in North America which is the topic of discussion here. so what! It would be imported, open your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 You and I are in agreement dude. What I was commenting on was Bikers ridiculous notion that because the Trax and Encore both START at 23k (edit: sorry 20k), the Ecosport should too. why should the Ecosport be cheaper than the Trax? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 That's what I was asking - are we seeing sales numbers that back up the "exploding segment" claim? I don't count Juke, Soul, Fiat or Mini - those are niche products on their own. But that's a pretty strong showing from Trax, Renegade and HR-V. Soul is not niche anything... it has sold over 100,000 units for several years now (145k in 2014). It's a force to be reckon with when you are talking about B-segment CUVs (since most of them are FWD like Soul). I'm guessing the next generation Soul will have AWD option. Juke is very much in the segment, although on the sporty end. Mini is the god father of the segment and they will be back with stronger push next year when the new Countryman arrives. FCA has said they expect about similar volume with 500X and Jeep Renegade twins. We'll see if that happens. For sure 500X will be the biggest seller for Fiat. The one to watch is Mazda CX-3... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I meant niche from a styling perspective. The fact that they're B size CUVs is almost irrelevant - it's the styling that attracts buyers. I don't see the Ecosport or HR-V competing directly with a Juke or Soul and vice versa. They appeal to totally different customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) Lots of older buyers love these small utes, and are moving away from 'traditional' big cars. Buick's #1 seller is the Encore. Honda Civic and Accord onwers are trading in for HR-V. So, time to roll out a [uS spec] Ford B size ute, but not call it "Eco-Sport". Edited July 15, 2015 by 630land 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Lots of older buyers love these small utes, and are moving away from 'traditional' big cars. Buick's #1 seller is the Encore. Honda Civic and Accord onwers are trading in for HR-V. So, time to roll out a [uS spec] Ford B size ute, but not call it "Eco-Sport". I agree... leave that name in Brazil and India. It's not that great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I agree... leave that name in Brazil and India. It's not that great. Not to mention the EcoBoost potential confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.