Michael Reynolds Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 This car without the pano roof (and added weight) probably would have faired better performance and efficiency wise. Yes the car is slow, but who in their right mind shops a hybrid with the emphasis on off the line performance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 This car without the pano roof (and added weight) probably would have faired better performance and efficiency wise. Yes the car is slow, but who in their right mind shops a hybrid with the emphasis on off the line performance? Not just a hybrid but a hybrid with every possible heavy option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 There is plenty of room for improvement but that doesn't make the current one bad. A base MKX Hybrid Premiere at its MSRP of about $37k is OK at best. The $55k variant that C&D tested is a real dud. C&D is absolutely correct in stating "Black Label experience isn’t enough to make the MKZ competitive in its entry-luxury segment" and that the price increase associated with Black Label "makes its shortcomings stand out even more." Is it any wonder why MKZ sales (as a whole) are down nearly 20% for the first half of 2015 compared to the same period last year? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 It starts at $35K. If you don't want all those options you don't have to buy it. Offering expensive options to people who want them is smart business. Offering a lower cost model without those options is even smarter. If Lincoln wanted more sales they could lower the price and/or add incentives. They're doing neither, probably due to manufacturing constraints in Hermosillo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 A base MKX Hybrid Premiere at its MSRP of about $37k is OK at best. The $55k variant that C&D tested is a real dud. C&D is absolutely correct in stating "Black Label experience isn’t enough to make the MKZ competitive in its entry-luxury segment" and that the price increase associated with Black Label "makes its shortcomings stand out even more." Is it any wonder why MKZ sales (as a whole) are down nearly 20% for the first half of 2015 compared to the same period last year? Yes, 55K is a bit on the steep side! That's 5 Series/E Class/A6 money....albeit with less feature content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Is it any wonder why MKZ sales (as a whole) It's following the typical, expected product life cycle curve. It's in its 4th year, and ready for a refresh. Edited July 27, 2015 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 It's following the typical, expected product life cycle curve. It's in its 4th year, and ready for a refresh. Dismissive again. what is the "expected product life cycle curve" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Yes, 55K is a bit on the steep side! That's 5 Series/E Class/A6 money....albeit with less feature content. Less feature content? What do they have that the MKZ doesn't? Aside from performance models (which cost quite a bit more than $55K). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Dismissive again. what is the "expected product life cycle curve" You're arguing for the sake of arguing. You know exactly what he meant - approx 3 years for a refresh, 6 for a full redesign. MKZ is due for a refresh, which has been spied already. And it needs it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Less feature content? What do they have that the MKZ doesn't? Aside from performance models (which cost quite a bit more than $55K). He meant less feature content in the BMW and MB compared to the MKZ at the same $55K price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) He meant less feature content in the BMW and MB compared to the MKZ at the same $55K price. Exactly my point. Edited July 27, 2015 by Michael Reynolds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I don't know what is the hub bub... the review seems really on point. MKZ is pretty decent car but the hybrid drivetrain is a little short of breath, and the Black Label price tag is rather optimistic. Perhaps what C&D didn't do is to point out the competition and put all of it in context... Lexus ES300h has 200hp but otherwise similar performance. The base price is $40,580 and can be similarly over-subscribed at over $54k if you check all the option boxes. And of course if you want to talk about value proposition of something based on ho-hum midsize sedan, take a look at the price of Cadillac XTS. It will make C&D editors pop a blood vessel and stroke out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 He meant less feature content in the BMW and MB compared to the MKZ at the same $55K price. Ah yes. Well in that case, I agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I don't know what is the hub bub... the review seems really on point. MKZ is pretty decent car but the hybrid drivetrain is a little short of breath, and the Black Label price tag is rather optimistic. Perhaps what C&D didn't do is to point out the competition and put all of it in context... Lexus ES300h has 200hp but otherwise similar performance. The base price is $40,580 and can be similarly over-subscribed at over $54k if you check all the option boxes. And of course if you want to talk about value proposition of something based on ho-hum midsize sedan, take a look at the price of Cadillac XTS. It will make C&D editors pop a blood vessel and stroke out. I think you hit the nail on the head... They wrote this article with no context of competition. They looked at the price in a vacuum and determined that they felt it was overpriced. And perhaps it is, but I think the article would've looked less like a biased piece had they mentioned the similar price of its closest competitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Dismissive again. what is the "expected product life cycle curve" Decreasing sales as a product refresh/replacement approaches. Fusion sales are also down year-over-year. Edited July 27, 2015 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 Then they shouldn't even bother to test a hybrid in the first place. Go test the 3.7L instead. If they drove it like a hybrid but it was still noisy and got lousy mpg then that would be something worth reporting. That's too limited, though, and would mean prefacing their review with "tested only in sub-40 mph traffic in the urban crawl". What would be the point? In this era, there's plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize a thrashy engine in a luxury hybrid. I agree that added displacement, bringing the usual torque and smoothness gains, would likely have a number of positive effects overall. Torquey engines don't get near the credit they deserve in terms of power/economy, because horsepower is a sexier term. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Personally I would take the A6 easily over the Lincoln. While the exterior may have some unique styling the interior is quite a let down compared to their German counterparts. On a side note, I did see on C&D website where they ranked 16 small SUV's and the Escape finished 3rd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 That's too limited, though, and would mean prefacing their review with "tested only in sub-40 mph traffic in the urban crawl". What would be the point? Driving it like a hybrid doesn't mean sub-40 mph traffic. It means not flooring it. It means driving for fuel economy not performance where the engine wouldn't sound so bad. In other words - driving it like most hybrid buyers are going to drive it. Or better yet - compare it to the Lexus ES 300H which is the closest competitor. Maybe they're both that noisy and unrefined when driven the same way. Did Lincoln mail it in by just cloning the Fusion hybrid gauges and drivetrain? Of course! It was easy and cheap and they're selling 10K/yr and they're made in a factory running at 100+% capacity. With ATPs over $40K. Is there room for improvement in the interior? We've already confirmed that with the MKC and MKX. MKZ is just waiting its turn. I have a pair of vice grips. They work great as pliers. I tried to hammer a nail with them and they were awful. Does that mean they're not good at being pliers? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Personally I would take the A6 easily over the Lincoln. While the exterior may have some unique styling the interior is quite a let down compared to their German counterparts. On a side note, I did see on C&D website where they ranked 16 small SUV's and the Escape finished 3rd. I believe the Fusion was ranked number 3 out of mid-sizers by C&D too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Personally I would take the A6 easily over the Lincoln. While the exterior may have some unique styling the interior is quite a let down compared to their German counterparts. On a side note, I did see on C&D website where they ranked 16 small SUV's and the Escape finished 3rd. The A6 doesn't offer a hybrid. Plus it starts at $46K ($11K more) and tops out at an astounding $80K (and that's the A6 not the S6). It's a nice car but way more expensive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) The A6 doesn't offer a hybrid. Plus it starts at $46K ($11K more) and tops out at an astounding $80K (and that's the A6 not the S6). It's a nice car but way more expensive. I would not do the hybrid Lincoln either. Much of that article centered on the rest of the vehicle-plus to me why bother? The vehicle starts at $46K and you are right heads north quickly. I have a friend of mine moving out of his 3 Series over to the A6 and it is coming in at $61K-which includes a performance package of some sort. Edited July 27, 2015 by kyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Well, there will be many here who hate me................. I love the MKZ Hybrid, and will be owning one when the deal works out. Do I think it is perfect................ nope. However, for what I want it for, for our 3rd vehicle, it will be fantastic. And yes, we did the Lincoln date night and had a fully loaded early 2014 for 2 days. I want a nice luxury car with all the bells and whistles, and a great dealership experience, hybrid. I love the way the MKZ looks. It is truly eye catching on the road, and in the Ruby Red or Bronze Fire Metallic that I will get, I will be approached all the time by admirers (not that I care, but our Ruby Red Explorer Sport gets more comments, looks, follows, and stops than any vehicle I have ever had). The version I will get will be a fully loaded Reserve and will sticker over $49K (BL is not available in AZ). I love the feature set, the panoramic roof, the multi-contour seats, and the hybrid drivetrain. The push button gear shift only matters for the first hour or two, and is a no brainer after that. In my driving, up and down steep mountain grades and driven at mid elevation (5000-5600ft), then back.................. I averaged almost 35mpg. That is without trying. It handles fantastic when the suspension is in sport, and coddles when in comfort. It is also much quicker than I thought it would be. Negatives. Yes, the engine does get a bit noisy when pushed hard. No, all of the interior materials are not up to todays luxury standards, but I do understand the car is very close to MCE.................. so it is understandable. The features, and the things I use all the time are great.................. and you would pay many thousands more to get them in a competitor. The point being, I am not buying one because it is the fastest, or "the ultimate driving machine." I am buying it because it is a strikingly handsome vehicle that has the features and dealership experience I am looking for in my next vehicle. Said dealership experience is why my Explorer Sport is serviced there also, even though it is 100 miles from my home. When a performance oriented car magazine tests a truck, then complains about it because it is too truck like................ they are idiots. When a performance oriented magazine tests a hybrid car that is not a hybrid performance car, and complains that it is not as fast as a performance car, and the mileage is not what they would like to see when flogged within an inch of its life.................. they are idiots. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Seems there are some good lease deals going on, I think there's like a $-4500 on a loaded MKZ total in discounts to be had. I know my dealer was bragging about a $289 for just a basic MKZ leases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 There are decent deals on the 2015's. Unfortunately, there are no 2015's in a color I like, with the equipment I want, within 3 states. 2016's there is hardly nothing. If I wanted a CTS, I could get $10K+ off, a 2016 MKZ, about 1/4 of that (yes, there is one in a color I like and loaded, but can't make the numbers work). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Then they shouldn't even bother to test a hybrid in the first place. Go test the 3.7L instead. If they drove it like a hybrid but it was still noisy and got lousy mpg then that would be something worth reporting. They shouldn't drive vans then either, but they did drive the Transit, floged the hell out of that and smoked the tires, got much better than expected fuel economy, and they liked it too. They have a right to an opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.