Chrysler is Dead….to me

[Anthony]

I’ve been here well over a decade and during most of that time I’ve always seen myself as a Chrysler fan first and a Ford fan a close second.

Over the past year, the tides have been turning. First, at the beginning of 2015, I bought a Focus (I didn’t even bother shopping a Chrysler dealer because they don’t sell a compact hatchback). Sure, I’ve had minor trials and tribulations with my little red rocket, but all in all it is a good car with excellent driving dynamics.

But the reason for the gradual walk away from Chrysler isn’t because of the car I own. It’s because of what is becoming of Chrysler altogether.

For the longest time, I stood up for Chrysler when bad news matriculated through the rags. I fought back against the boilerplate internet posts with phrases like “No, the majority of their cars don’t go to rental fleets” “Yes, the RAM gets the best fuel mileage” “The Challenger is the best of the muscle cars even though it’s on a platform older then my kids” “Sergio knows what he is doing”. Always waiting for the shoe to drop where they did something truly spectacular and regained some of the engineering or design glory they had in the 1990’s.

Sergio has killed any hope I once had. He is driving the company I had a passion for into the ground and it seems there is no turning back.

Yes, Ram and Jeep are the bread and butter for the meager profits they make. But why abandon everything else? Sure, the entire Jeep lineup is sales masterpiece (and some damn good vehicles too) and the Ram trucks are selling better than ever. But for how long? How long can they rely on buying CAFE credits to keep churning out vehicles?

Giving up on the midsize and compact segment (or possibly slapping a Chrysler badge on some unnamed import) is not smart. It is brand suicide. How well did rebadging cars do for Geo? Plymouth? Mercury? Oldsmobile?

But perhaps that’s the long con Sergio has been planning all along.

Sure we’ve said Ram and Jeep will be sold to the highest bidder eventually, but this is the surest proof that this is the end of the beginning. The rest is downhill for Chrysler.

I’m a Mets fan, so I know how to root for an underdog. But I always know they’ll be back next year with a new and (hopefully) improved team. But this? I can’t watch it anymore. There is no new team for Chrysler. Next year only digs the hole even deeper.

Chrysler is only a company in name now. The real Chrysler left years ago.

At this point, it almost makes me wish for the days of Lutz…hell, even Daimler.

[bdegrand]

I’ve been here well over a decade and during most of that time I’ve always seen myself as a Chrysler fan first and a Ford fan a close second.

 

Over the past year, the tides have been turning. First, at the beginning of 2015, I bought a Focus (I didn’t even bother shopping a Chrysler dealer because they don’t sell a compact hatchback). Sure, I’ve had minor trials and tribulations with my little red rocket, but all in all it is a good car with excellent driving dynamics.

 

But the reason for the gradual walk away from Chrysler isn’t because of the car I own. It’s because of what is becoming of Chrysler altogether.

 

For the longest time, I stood up for Chrysler when bad news matriculated through the rags. I fought back against the boilerplate internet posts with phrases like “No, the majority of their cars don’t go to rental fleets” “Yes, the RAM gets the best fuel mileage” “The Challenger is the best of the muscle cars even though it’s on a platform older then my kids” “Sergio knows what he is doing”. Always waiting for the shoe to drop where they did something truly spectacular and regained some of the engineering or design glory they had in the 1990’s.

 

Sergio has killed any hope I once had. He is driving the company I had a passion for into the ground and it seems there is no turning back.

 

Yes, Ram and Jeep are the bread and butter for the meager profits they make. But why abandon everything else? Sure, the entire Jeep lineup is sales masterpiece (and some damn good vehicles too) and the Ram trucks are selling better than ever. But for how long? How long can they rely on buying CAFE credits to keep churning out vehicles?

 

Giving up on the midsize and compact segment (or possibly slapping a Chrysler badge on some unnamed import) is not smart. It is brand suicide. How well did rebadging cars do for Geo? Plymouth? Mercury? Oldsmobile?

 

But perhaps that’s the long con Sergio has been planning all along.

 

Sure we’ve said Ram and Jeep will be sold to the highest bidder eventually, but this is the surest proof that this is the end of the beginning. The rest is downhill for Chrysler.

 

I’m a Mets fan, so I know how to root for an underdog. But I always know they’ll be back next year with a new and (hopefully) improved team. But this? I can’t watch it anymore. There is no new team for Chrysler. Next year only digs the hole even deeper.

 

Chrysler is only a company in name now. The real Chrysler left years ago.

 

At this point, it almost makes me wish for the days of Lutz…hell, even Daimler.

 

The name Chrysler doesn't even stand alone. It's was Diamler/Chrysler....and now Fiat/ Chrysler.

[Hugh]

I sympathize with you in a lot of ways. I'm a Senators fan and after the 2007 Stanley Cup run, it hasn't been the same. Inconsistancy all around. I've had a soft spot in my heart for Chrysler and I feel they have a good product lineup. I can't help but think what would we have thought of Ford if they decided to just make Trucks and Mustangs? There was musing on these forums regarding that almost a decade ago. I also agree with your Sergio 'long con' statement. It appears that way that his Modus Operandi was to use Chrysler to sell Fiats in NA. In the name of all things holy WHY? Is there such a demand from the masses for them or is it more likely delusional thinking. It appears it is a niche market only for the 'A' platform 500 and a 'B/C' 500L (They are so Fugly but to each their own. Your money not mine). Alfa Romeo? Again WHY? Where is the demand when there is plenty of product that is most likely better. Heck Ford is leaving Japan and the reality is they are not popular there.

So Chrysler is getting screwed again by upper leadership who is only using the resources instead of nuturing the company that has potential and that bugs me the most.

 

Never wish for Daimler (Sergio Ver 1.0) or LUTZ! Man alive if you were my buddy across the table at the pub, I'd slap you. Out of love and friendship of course...snap out of it!

[Anthony]

 

 

Never wish for Daimler (Sergio Ver 1.0) or LUTZ! Man alive if you were my buddy across the table at the pub, I'd slap you. Out of love and friendship of course...snap out of it!

 

 

I don't wish for either of them, that was just a sarcastic way of showing how frustrated I am at the current debacle.

[Pioneer]

You going to change your name?

[Anthony]

Funny enough, the name is not a reflection of the car. I just liked the name.

 

But I was thinking of changing my name to Anthony since I think it is more personable online. I'll probably ask Robert to do that.

[J-150]

I admire Chrysler. They have been a scrapper for their entire life. Always fighting the uphill battle.

 

Sadly, the end is near. There is no coming back from this latest battle. Ram and Jeep will be long to Nissan - Renault or Hyundai within 2 years.

[mettech]

Maybe Google or Apple will buy Chrysler..

 

Now that would be a true game changer..

[rmc523]

Sad thing is, it seemed like they were finally starting to make some new, good products and were on their way to doing something pretty good, and now this.

[RichardJensen]

Maybe Google or Apple will buy Chrysler..

 

Now that would be a true game changer..

 

You mean like it was when Google bought Motorola?

[danglin]

It is sad to see an American Icon in automobile manufacturing is being cash hogged into oblivion for Fiat.

[J-150]

It is sad to see an American Icon in automobile manufacturing is being cash hogged into oblivion for Fiat.

And Cerberus

 

And Daimler

 

Who's next to milk the truck profits?

[AlRozzi]

Anthony - interesting comments.

 

I've always been a Ford guy but I would say that Chrysler has been my second favorite company and is the only non-Ford I've ever owned. Another way of stating my view would be that I've always been anti-foreign and anti-G.M.

 

Cars and the auto industry has always been my passion but I believe the industry is about to take a dramatic turn. In fact I believe it will be difficult to find passion in vehicle ownership as we have known it.

 

Forget working on cars and tinkering, for one thing. Those days are gone.

 

I'm assuming there will be a combining and consolidation of the industry (Toyota buying the remaining shares of Daihatsu, for example) as well as newly created ownership stakes like Apple, etcetera.

 

Even worse for me is the notion of driverless cars and ride sharing. If I can't own my car and drive it myself then like Chryler being dead to you, the auto industry will be dead to me.

 

Back to Chryler, I think it is almost a miracle the company is still around (although controlled by Fiat) considering what Daimler did and then the 2009 bankruptcy. There is irony in the fact that Chrysler would even exist today if it weren't for Fiat yet Fiat wouldn't exist today if it weren't for Chrysler.

 

The real problem for Chrysler now is Sergio himself, as I see it. He got a big chip on his shoulder when he saved Fiat from collapse 10 years ago or so, and now he has bigger things to prove - and that is the problem.

 

If he were thinking clearly he wouldn't be trying to do the things he wants to do such as trying to turn Alfa Romeo into a volume luxury brand. He should have sold Alfa to VW five years ago when he had the chance. VW today would have that financial burden on top of its scandals.

 

Furthermore, he should have off-loaded Maserati rather than Ferrari and he shouldn't have separated the Ram brand out of Dodge.

 

Sergio's quest for merging with G.M. last year illustrates to me that he sees his plan isn't going to work and his narcissism is a big part of the problem.

 

Regardless of Chrysler specifically, the auto industry in general is about to morph into something completely different and I think many auto industry buffs will feel a sense of loss similar to yours.

[AlRozzi]

Should add that noting the historical Ford and Agnelli family friendship it would not surprise me if there were some cooperation between Ford and FCA regardless that the Agnelli's are out of FCA now. It could be that the next Ka/500 share a platform once again.

Edited January 30, 2016 by AlRozzi

[Fgts]

I'd get the OPs point but IMO I'll see what "partners" S/Ms is talking about for smaller fwd cars. Can Ford, GM or Mitsubishi offer a platform with Chrysler running gear?.

 

The Caliber, Avenger Sebring/200 were built off a compact Mitsubishi platform and Mitsu engines albeit they were made in Chrysler factories.

 

Can Ford offer the Focus platform with Ford production facility for the Dart/200 replacement?.

[jpd80]

I'd get the OPs point but IMO I'll see what "partners" S/Ms is talking about for smaller fwd cars. Can Ford, GM or Mitsubishi offer a platform with Chrysler running gear?.

 

The Caliber, Avenger Sebring/200 were built off a compact Mitsubishi platform and Mitsu engines albeit they were made in Chrysler factories.

 

Can Ford offer the Focus platform with Ford production facility for the Dart/200 replacement?.

Yes they could but some other manufacturers could also service that outsourcing too...

Ford doesn't need that kind of relationship given what we know about near future production plans.

 

I think it's more important for FCA to concentrate on getting mid size and large Utilities and cars right,

if it is determined to stay RWD, then incorporate all that product envelope under one RWD/AWD platform.

With a little care and attention to detail, FCA could have desirable vehicles across Jeep, Dodge and Chrysler.

 

But that's putting a positive spin on FCA products that may no longer exist...

Edited January 30, 2016 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

I'd get the OPs point but IMO I'll see what "partners" S/Ms is talking about for smaller fwd cars.

 

They're going to rebadge Mitsubishis. That much was all but admitted during the presentation.

[ehaase]

Does Mitsubishi make any cars anymore? I think that Nissan supplies the Galant replacement in Japan, and the Lancer is quite an old design.

[Anthony]

I think it's too early to say who they would partner with. But regardless, if you are selling someone else's items and slapping your name on it, you might as well just call yourself Westinghouse.

[fusioneh]

Unfortunately everything you are saying about FCA in these posts is all true.

Like many here I also used Chrysler as my "backup" brand and on occasion have recommended their vehicles to friends when it seemed appropriate.

However, being in Canada I was more worried than most of you here (probably) because in Canada we had felt Fiat's wrath in the past.

Starting in the seventies some genius felt that just because we had more European brands of cars here than in the U.S.A. that we would also "love" Fiats.

They tried to "flood" our market as much as possible and in areas with decent sized Italian communities they sold a fair number of cars.

Then the first couple of winters hit! There were so many that would not start in the cold that the Auto Clubs just hated them. By the third winter you could see rust holes in the lower sections of the bodies! There was an ongoing joke about how if you parked one in a quiet garage you could hear them rust.

They were dying so often that parts were hard to get for repairs.

What did they bring in? It is a relatively long list; 850 Sedan and spider, 128 sedan, 124 sedan and spider and the 125 sedan.

At this point I lost interest in them and I do not remember when they pulled out.

I do have one last memory of their "Canadian experience". Not long after they left Canada I was doing my usual annual visit to the Canadian International Auto Show in Toronto, and without really caring noticed that there was a Lada sedan on display. Well, I had to have a look!

Yep, same old same old. Just as I walked by the thing I heard one fellow say "Just what the world needs, a brand new 25 year old Fiat".

And I am willing to bet that all the marketing geniuses at FCA don't have a clue as to why the 500 still isn't selling well here.

I also expect these are the same marketing geniuses that have determined that due to cheap cost of fuel here there is no future for cars like the Dart and 200. This is why Ford has invested in a second location for building the Fusion (bringing sales up to well over 300,000) and in spite of some issues with the Focus' transmission it is still selling almost 250,000 per year.

Wow, I have ranted for long enough!

Later,

Morry

[Ron W.]

 

They're going to rebadge Mitsubishis.

 

Just one more mistake.

 

Does Mitsubishi make any cars anymore?

 

I'm sorry to say, but yes.

[AR]

I've been following the FCA news on these forums, but I never felt the desire to post my thoughts until now. I must say I am surprised to read the post by the original poster. I don't have anything really to say except, welcome to the club.

 

I was born and raised into a Mopar family and drove nothing but Chrysler products (real Chryslers, not rebadged Mitsubishis, Renaults, or AMCs) in my high school and college years. My grandfather sold Chrysler products since the mid 1930s and eventually opened his own Chrysler dealership in 1955. My dad worked right alongside him as the Service and Parts Manager. He, too, was (and still is) an avid Mopar fan, although that has dropped off as of late. So, my family ties to Chrysler products go way back. That all came to a halt in 1998 when the "merger of equals" happened. I was against the idea the very second I heard it announced on TV. I knew the Germans were going to take over and run the company. Chrysler was going to play second fiddle - and that was something I (and our family) did not want. Unfortunately, there was nothing that could be done about it and Eaton and his gang got their way. Fast forward to today and we all know the outcome of that decision.

 

Anyway, it was at that time (1998) that Chrysler Corporation became dead to me and I swore I would never spend a penny on DCX. So, I changed the family's direction by being the first in the family to buy and drive a non-Mopar. In 2002, I ordered a 2003 Ford Mustang Mach 1. I really didn't know much about Ford or the Mustang, but I knew I didn't want a DCX product and GM was just killing the Camaro/Firebird, so it was easy to appreciate Ford's understanding and appreciation of its heritage. It also helped that my dad worked for a great Ford dealer for a brief time after he was pushed out of Chrysler for good in 1992 (dealership was sold). As it stands today, I still have that Mach 1 and have since added a BMW 435xi coupe, and just yesterday a 2015 Ford Focus SE. Unless something miraculous happens, I don't see myself in another vehicle with a Dodge or Chrysler nameplate (with the exception of my Daytona Shelby whenever that gets restored).

 

I was never a fan of the Fiat/Chrysler merger and have been against it since day 1. After having gone through so much for so long, I would rather the Dodge and Chrysler nameplates die to put them out of their misery. Based on the news from a few days ago, it looks like that is a real possibility. I don't care about Jeep or Ram, so they could go to China or somebody else for all I care. I never did see Chrysler or Dodge staying around for the next 10 to 20 years and I figured I would be alive when those nameplates eventually leave the marketplace. They just aren't strong nameplates now and with Sergio's new plan, it looks like they are closer to death than ever before. Dodge is really just the Charger and Challenger division because nothing else sells. Chrysler is pretty much the 300 (which has become old) and the Pacifica. For all the hype about the 200, it never lived up to its billing. Sales had to be propped up by heavy incentives and high fleet sales. In December, the 200 sales dropped almost 50% reflecting what I believe to be the real sales numbers for the car - roughly 8,000 to 9,000 units per month. Not very good. So, what really is a Dodge and Chrysler to the American car buying public?

 

I also don't believe FCA will be around in 10 to 20 years. I just don't see the strong foundation that I see with Ford, Toyota, Honda, BMW, etc... I think FCA will be around as long as Sergio is at the helm, but once he leaves, it will most likely be merged (bought) by somebody else. Or it might even be parted out if Autoextremist is correct. I believe that Sergio's latest plan is not being done in the long term interests of FCA, but rather as a short term clean-up and package effort to make certain pieces attractive to an eventual buyer. He'll keep the company going just long enough to which he can retire in 2 to 4 years and leave before it falls apart or is gobbled up. At that time, I believe Dodge and/or Chrysler is gone. Again, I really don't care what happens to Jeep or Ram.

 

In the end, this is bittersweet for me. On one hand, this should refute all the claims that Sergio, Fiat, and Auburn Hills are the smartest people in the industry. However, I am bitter by this because things could (and should) have been different at Chrysler. The poor leadership over the decades contributed to the problems Chrysler has had to overcome time and time again, but there are only so many times that a company can screw up before it can't be fixed anymore. That time has come and has been coming for some time.

[mettech]

How long does it take to get a BMW in after you order it?

[AlRozzi]

Looks as though Sergio is preping Jeep for a sale.

Fiat is worthless. Good as gone.

No equity In Dodge or. Chrysler brands.

If Jeep is all that remains while all else is dead, is Jeep in fact the death of automakers

as many have speculated?

[J-150]

Looks as though Sergio is preping Jeep for a sale.

Fiat is worthless. Good as gone.

No equity In Dodge or. Chrysler brands.

If Jeep is all that remains while all else is dead, is Jeep in fact the death of automakers

as many have speculated?

And Ram trucks.