silvrsvt Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 I was wondering what would happen when American and European Fords were co-developed under the "One Ford" program. My first experience with a European Ford was a new 1974 2800cc Capri. I was a Mustang buyer prior to that; but I could not stomach the Mustang II. Although the Capri was an enthusiast kind of car and very sporty, it was absolutely terrible build-wise. Many mechanical problems arose; followed by rusting out in just a few years. Years later, we bought an 1991 Escort GT which was part Mazda. This was one of the better Ford cars I ever owned. We then purchased an SVT Contour; although I was concerned about the quality coming from Europe. The result was eerily similar to the Capri. The mechanical problems just took all the pleasure out of owning such a car. The issues were not confined to any one particular area either. Fast forward to our 2011 Edge. After five years, it remains the most perfect Ford that we have ever owned (started buying new Fords in 1965). I may be wrong, but I think the 2011 Edge is not on a European based platform like the new Edge. Depends on what you want to define as European...what about the Volvo based Taurus/500/Explorer/etc? Outside of a fuel sending unit (which looks to be a bad batch of parts away) my 2013 SHO has been mechanically flawless. MFT has its own fits at times, but nothing that keeps me from operating the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) Quality and manufacturing problems are caused by a combination of inexperience, cost cutting, manpower, and management decision making which falls in-line with what many Ford Engineers have been complaining about behind the scenes. Ford is still recovering from its era of cutting which left them too lean and under developed to take on huge challenges like restructuring it's entire global business in a short period of time. Ford is a smart company however, I'm sure they have their priorities lined up and have made calculated risks to service their main priorities which was to stabilize their business for the future and set the stage for an more efficient global company. They are learning some new lessons about that process. We've seen Ford's quality dip and spike unlike any other carmaker which tells you allot about the dramatic evolution the company has been going through. While I accept that Ford just isn't a quality-first company, I know they are making better than average products and are still innovation focused. Ford's brief era of top-tier quality was a fairly dry time for the company and I wouldn't really want that Ford back anyway. Edited February 27, 2016 by BORG 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Ford issues 16th recall on Escape since latest redesign. What's your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) http://www.carcomplaints.com/Ford/Escape/2016/ Still having problems in 2016 Wow. 15 complaints from a website that has no statistical filtering whatsoever. Your anecdata has convinced me entirely. Ford is a horrible company that will go bankrupt either next year or the year after. Thank you for your enlightening, detailed, carefully constructed and well-thought-out analysis of where exactly Ford can improve its processes. Edited February 28, 2016 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 What's your point? Figure it out Richard. The topic is JDPower Vehicle Dependability Study. I guess 16 recalls on one vehicle makes it dependable? And still recalls on the 2016 model. I don't know if you work for Ford or not, but I sure wouldn't feel to good about that type of quality in a vehicle. Am I missing something? I'm not a troll. I have owned Fords all my life. Have 3 of them right now in my garage, I own Ford stock, I cheer for Ford when racing. I want this company to achieve great things, but when stuff like this keeps happening over and over it makes one wonder if anyone there has their finger on the pulse. It sure seems like they don't to me. Tell me I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 How do you fix a problem when pointing out the problem is labeled an excuse? I don't know maybe you should ask Ford management. The really stupid part is these are issues raised in MY2013 product, issues that for the most part have already been addressed and fixed Anyone quickly skimming this article could easily mistake the results as applying to last year's vehicle..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Figure it out Richard. The topic is JDPower Vehicle Dependability Study. I didn't ask what the topic of the thread was. What's your point? All you've contributed to this thread is obnoxious management-speak. I don't care how much Ford stock you own or how many Fords you own, your contributions to this thread have been nothing but vague negativity and empty rhetoric. If you've got a useful observation about a definite aspect of this problem, then share it. But if all you've got to add is 'we need solutions, not excuses', then just read the threads. -- Also, Ford's product range has an 'average' rating over at CU right now, based on owner surveys, so it's not like their product range is horrible (as opposed to makes that are riding the bottom in both the VDS and CU surveys) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 The Fusion/500/05 Mustang launches were pretty trouble free, weren't they? What happened? My 2015 Edge has a ton of issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) The Fusion/500/05 Mustang launches were pretty trouble free, weren't they? What happened? My 2015 Edge has a ton of issues. Supplier base issues and different build process to the CD3S before it - not excuses, points of failure. MY2016 Edge seems to have settled down just fine, sales are pretty good. CD4 Fusion changeover went OK but CD4 MKZ was a right cock up due to supplier trim issues. 05 Mustang changeover was an evolution of existing design with very similar build process and supplier base. C1 Focus was a headache becaus US supplier couldn't get dashboard quality up to scratch. All of those vehicles settled down to be good sellers. Edited February 28, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 (edited) Figure it out Richard. The topic is JDPower Vehicle Dependability Study. I guess 16 recalls on one vehicle makes it dependable? And still recalls on the 2016 model. I don't know if you work for Ford or not, but I sure wouldn't feel to good about that type of quality in a vehicle. Am I missing something? I'm not a troll. I have owned Fords all my life. Have 3 of them right now in my garage, I own Ford stock, I cheer for Ford when racing. I want this company to achieve great things, but when stuff like this keeps happening over and over it makes one wonder if anyone there has their finger on the pulse. It sure seems like they don't to me. Tell me I'm wrong. All those recalls have not affected the popularity of Escape. A lot of those recalls would have been timed to coincide with service work and from past experience, they are a great opportunity for dealers to connect with owners - I'm sure GM dealers maybe full use of ignition switch recalls to expose owners to new GM products and deals, increasing annual sales when most thought GM would be in the crapper... Edited February 28, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Average is good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Average is good! It's better than 'much worse than average' which is where these VDS results are. And it's an indication that Ford's quality over a broader time frame isn't as bad as this year's VDS snapshot would indicate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Average is good! In the context of where Ford is today compared to model years 2011 to 2013, when it botched nearly every new or refreshed product launch, it's good indeed. Ford increased the weighting given to product quality and customer satisfaction in its most recent performance based incentive plans for executives. The company has a long way to go, but it's heading in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 It won't be a huge priority as long as sales and profits remain high, but I do think Ford is improving from the 2012-2013 years. 2013 Fusion launch was terrible. They had to send a stamping die back to Michigan to be fixed prior to production. Launch issues can be mostly addressed with process changes and more time. Engineering issues need more better engineers. I hope Ford is working on both now that they're solidly profitable and the platform consolidations are behind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I wonder if part of the issue is they're launching vehicles that are "completely new". As maddening as it was when they'd launch a new model with an old engine and/or transmission only to update it in a year or two, perhaps it saved them some growing pains?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 2013 Fusion launch was terrible. They had to send a stamping die back to Michigan to be fixed prior to production.That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a launch. That's happened to a C-Max die in the middle of a model year. They had to send it to Dearborn to be fixed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a launch. That's happened to a C-Max die in the middle of a model year. They had to send it to Dearborn to be fixed. It does if it happens before they start shipping any vehicles. Just one more thing they screwed up during the launch regardless of the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 It does if it happens before they start shipping any vehicles. Just one more thing they screwed up during the launch regardless of the cause. My point is being a launch has absolutely nothing to do with a die splitting, it's just coincidence that's when it happened. I know that launch was seriously screwed up, but that's the one thing that nobody could do anything about. It just happens sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 My point is being a launch has absolutely nothing to do with a die splitting, it's just coincidence that's when it happened. I know that launch was seriously screwed up, but that's the one thing that nobody could do anything about. It just happens sometimes. Brand new ones? Is it a hard to find material defect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Brand new ones? Is it a hard to find material defect? It could literally be anything as far as I'm aware. For all we know it was a fluke thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 What's your point? Does it mean anything that the new escape has been recalled more than the 2000 focus? Does Quality matter? the consistent/ persistent narrative that is soft on Quality represent a problem for the company? I wonder if part of the issue is they're launching vehicles that are "completely new". As maddening as it was when they'd launch a new model with an old engine and/or transmission only to update it in a year or two, perhaps it saved them some growing pains?? Ford has to figure out how to launch all new products, becuase I cannot forsee a futurew where its ok to not launch all new products. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 I'm giving them a one time pass on the 2012 Escape and 2013 Fusion/MKZ launches because they were rushing to get the NA and European platforms consolidated and I think they purposely cut timelines to realize the platform cost savings as early as possible. There was a big learning curve there. Going forward that should not be an issue. We did not see those issues with the 2015 Edge launch. In fact it was delayed. So it was considerably better but still not without issues - missing seam sealer caused water infiltration to the point some vehicles had to be bought back. There was also an issue with the newly designed seat cooling module that also affected the F150 and other vehicles. What happened in 2012 and 2013 is in the past - it is what it is. The real question is whether changes have been made to avoid those in the future and so far it seems the answer is yes, but there are still many many areas for improvement overall. The Focus/Fiesta DCT also dates back to 2011-2012. I think they were going too fast with too many changes and not enough people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Does it mean anything that the new escape has been recalled more than the 2000 focus? It doesn't mean anything if they've fixed the problems going forward. The new F150 launch which included a complete factory gut and rebuild was relatively trouble free. The 2015 Edge launch which moved it to a new platform had some issues but nothing compared to 2012-2013. Are they perfect? No. Are they better than 2012-2013? It appears they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 It doesn't mean anything if they've fixed the problems going forward. The new F150 launch which included a complete factory gut and rebuild was relatively trouble free. The 2015 Edge launch which moved it to a new platform had some issues but nothing compared to 2012-2013. Are they perfect? No. Are they better than 2012-2013? It appears they are. Why didn't they learn from the disastrous launches in 2000-2002? what is going to prevent it from happening again in 2022? The my coworkers 2015 edge is not perfect, has a fit and finish issue in that the rear door won't shut properly. something so simple should not happen in 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) The pace of new products has slowed significantly as they ramp up for a big global onslaught at the end of the decade, but this time they won't be cutting and consolidating their operations at the same time so this will be the true test of the lessons they've learned. Over the next few years Ford will have one of the older lineups in the industry in key volume segments (at least architecturally) so they better see significant improvements with far fewer new tech features launching in this period as well. Ford does often repeat history, Focus and Escape have had 2 very rocky launches surrounding all-new models so hopefully the 3rd time is the charm in 2018. Edited February 29, 2016 by BORG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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