Looks like we have a couple of first reviews of the new MKZ

[LincolnLover]

I've been in BMW 5 series, E class, CTS, MKZ, the MKZ comes in last for overall...... If the cars are so great, why aren't they buying them up? Sales are minimally increasing, most likely because of Matthew, which is a shame. The Navigator in my opinion is junk. Why no Lincoln stars anywhere inside? Why so much hard materials? Why so little wood and chrome? It's like either they are trying to save money on all the little tedious things that add up, like Lincoln stars, Navigator engraved on door handle trim..... It doesn't read Lincoln, except for the unmistakable duel cowl dash.......

[akirby]

Are you really that naive that you can't follow the logic that several people have put forth here? Or are you being deliberately obtuse just to keep the argument going?

[Extreme4x4]

Congratulations on your successes..... Everything you just said is your opinion...... I won't argue that the Cadillac's are geared a bit too much toward performance, but that's to change, as the CT6 is definitely not a performance monster. How could you say that RWD offers a rougher ride? That's most certainly not true, I've been in RWD/FWD/AWD/4WD vehicles, and they all are different. Town Car anyone? S600 Maybach? BMW 760li? Hyundai Genesis? Lexus LS? Cadillac CT6? Should I keep going?

 

I find it very funny how you all are coming to Lincoln's defense and really believe in your minds that they compete with the likes of Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Audi, even Cadillac. I see nothing or feel nothing to say otherwise. I don't see any type of high end interiors, gadgets or features, just industry standards that SHOULD be in there. The ride qaulity is absolutely not superior to anything German or Japanese, even though I hate anything from Asia. It's quite funny how it's turned around to be convenient for Lincoln, but bad for every other luxury company. I doubt any vehicle I buy will be in the shop more than the MKZ..... Cadillac's ATS/CTS sales may have fallen slightly, due to stagnancy, with 2017 I see an increase in sales. I do see Lincoln catching up or surpassing ANY other brand by the end of the decade. If Lincoln can't catch up, "oh that's ok, we're a boutique brand" but if they go huge, "just as we planned".....

 

And right here, in this one post, you show just how young and inexperienced you are. This is not bashing, it is an observation based on the tantrums that you throw when you don't get your way.

 

Nowhere did I say that RWD offered a rougher ride. I said that the CTS / ATS had a rougher ride and that people have complained about it. You say you are on GMI, and yet you have never read this?? There are many who have not bought the cars just because of the ride. You say that sales have "fallen slightly." Slightly??? 20-30-40% is slightly?? Ok. What is your reasoning for ATS / CTS increasing in 2017?? Is GM planning some blow out buy one get one for 50% off sales that we don't know about?? You say you don't see Lincoln catching up in sales (yes, we know you made a typo in your haste to get your post out). Yet Lincoln is the one who's sales have increased the last 2 years and is up double digits this year................ and Cadillac is down, once again.

 

You see what you want to see, and read what you want to read, and when we don't agree with your..................... shall I say interestingly thought out posts, throw a little word tantrum.

 

And you wonder why we won't take you seriously.

 

My son is a 14-year-old motorhead, as he is surrounded by 2 motorheads. He suffers from the same lack of a filter before things just fly out of his face. It is depressing to think that there will be no improvement in the next 6 years, based on the evidence of 1.

[LincolnLover]

 

And right here, in this one post, you show just how young and inexperienced you are. This is not bashing, it is an observation based on the tantrums that you throw when you don't get your way.

 

Nowhere did I say that RWD offered a rougher ride. I said that the CTS / ATS had a rougher ride and that people have complained about it. You say you are on GMI, and yet you have never read this?? There are many who have not bought the cars just because of the ride. You say that sales have "fallen slightly." Slightly??? 20-30-40% is slightly?? Ok. What is your reasoning for ATS / CTS increasing in 2017?? Is GM planning some blow out buy one get one for 50% off sales that we don't know about?? You say you don't see Lincoln catching up in sales (yes, we know you made a typo in your haste to get your post out). Yet Lincoln is the one who's sales have increased the last 2 years and is up double digits this year................ and Cadillac is down, once again.

 

You see what you want to see, and read what you want to read, and when we don't agree with your..................... shall I say interestingly thought out posts, throw a little word tantrum.

 

And you wonder why we won't take you seriously.

 

My son is a 14-year-old motorhead, as he is surrounded by 2 motorheads. He suffers from the same lack of a filter before things just fly out of his face. It is depressing to think that there will be no improvement in the next 6 years, based on the evidence of 1.

No Cadillac is significantly reducing incentives to try and keep resale value up, while Lincoln has incentives everywhere.

 

What experience does your son have with anything automotive? Other than living with "2 motorheads"? I'd rather not repeat AGAIN what I had done by that age..... I forgot to mention my small racing time in ATV's...... Fixed and rebuilt the whole machine with my dad, he just was supervising and there for questions if I had any. literally only reused the frame......

Edited July 5, 2016 by LincolnLover

[LincolnLover]

Are you really that naive that you can't follow the logic that several people have put forth here? Or are you being deliberately obtuse just to keep the argument going?

I don't know why I keep being addressed...... You all know where I stand..... I want a flagship full size LWB floaty RWD sedan with a small TT V8...... I also want a sporty LS successor. I also want to make all of you people happy, and let you keep your FWD MKZ, MKC, MKX, and Continental. After all, the last Continental was just like this new one, built on Ford's FWD platform, at that time the Taurus, now the Fusion, as Taurus will be gone and it sucks a big one, for how big it is, it's the smallest full size sedan ever....... GO FWD!

Edited July 5, 2016 by LincolnLover

[MKX1960]

Cadillac sales still dropping. Here is part of an article from Forbes.

 

Cadillac’s success in transforming its product from old and stodgy to cutting-edge and bold is nothing short of remarkable. It’s position in the market has improved, and the automaker’s new boss, Johan de Nysschen, has stated unapologetically he’s gunning for the same high-end clientele currently shopping German luxury makes. His mission will depend on cars like the entry-level ATS, the newly positioned CTS CTS -1.57%, the more upscale XTS, the technically advanced ELR, and Cadillac’s two utility vehicles, the compact SRX and full-size Escalade. But despite its impressive line up, Cadillac sales are faltering even as the luxury market grows. If you’ve driven the compelling new 2015 Cadillac ATS Coupe it’s difficult to understand why.

[LincolnLover]

Cadillac sales still dropping. Here is part of an article from Forbes.

 

Cadillacs success in transforming its product from old and stodgy to cutting-edge and bold is nothing short of remarkable. Its position in the market has improved, and the automakers new boss, Johan de Nysschen, has stated unapologetically hes gunning for the same high-end clientele currently shopping German luxury makes. His mission will depend on cars like the entry-level ATS, the newly positioned CTS CTS -1.57%, the more upscale XTS, the technically advanced ELR, and Cadillacs two utility vehicles, the compact SRX and full-size Escalade. But despite its impressive line up, Cadillac sales are faltering even as the luxury market grows. If youve driven the compelling new 2015 Cadillac ATS Coupe its difficult to understand why.

Where's it say they are bad vehicles? In fact, you are providing substance to my argument that they're excellent vehicles, stated in the last sentence of the quote. We already know the sales decline has a lot to do with the cuts of programs to allow for less wealthy people to afford a Cadillac, which is good and bad. Makes the brand higher end for the wealthy, but at the cost of sales. I think the ATS and CTS and XT5 need programs for more affordability until the end of the decade at least until the brand image has spread everywhere to show prestige again.

[LincolnLover]

There will come a time where Lincoln sales will not continue to climb, soon enough. They will reach a plateau.

[LincolnLover]

Cadillac sales still dropping. Here is part of an article from Forbes.

 

Cadillacs success in transforming its product from old and stodgy to cutting-edge and bold is nothing short of remarkable. Its position in the market has improved, and the automakers new boss, Johan de Nysschen, has stated unapologetically hes gunning for the same high-end clientele currently shopping German luxury makes. His mission will depend on cars like the entry-level ATS, the newly positioned CTS CTS -1.57%, the more upscale XTS, the technically advanced ELR, and Cadillacs two utility vehicles, the compact SRX and full-size Escalade. But despite its impressive line up, Cadillac sales are faltering even as the luxury market grows. If youve driven the compelling new 2015 Cadillac ATS Coupe its difficult to understand why.

MKX1960, I also want to publicly apologize for my much earlier comment the other day, about your age and early onset of dementia, I was annoyed..... I don't usually talk to elders that way (I don't say elders as if you're old, but for your superiority). You actually are probably my parents age, if you were born in '60...... Anyways, I think my grandma was starting to get a little coo coo before she passed, and it's not nice, I don't wish on anyone. So you can accept my apology, or not....... Whatever floats your boat. I'm sorry for that..... Edited July 6, 2016 by LincolnLover

[akirby]

There will come a time where Lincoln sales will not continue to climb, soon enough. They will reach a plateau.

Caddy is trying to be BMW and in the process forsaking their faithful customers, and German car fans are buying German brands not Caddys.

 

Lincoln will continue climbing as they bring out new models like Continental and the upcoming Aviator and Navigator that appeal to Potential Lincoln buyers.

 

The luxury car market is not about RWD.

[LincolnLover]

Caddy is trying to be BMW and in the process forsaking their faithful customers, and German car fans are buying German brands not Caddys.

 

Lincoln will continue climbing as they bring out new models like Continental and the upcoming Aviator and Navigator that appeal to Potential Lincoln buyers.

 

The luxury car market is not about RWD.

 

You got me there! The RWD-bias Aviator and new Navigator is going to be huge! I look forward to that! I really just wish that if there is any possible way for Ford to end up building a 5.0TT ecoboost, or 4.0TT ecoboost V8, I'd love to see that in the new Navigator. In any event, I will end up owning one, because I must at least try the newest version of my most favorite vehicle in history......

[rmc523]

I've been in BMW 5 series, E class, CTS, MKZ, the MKZ comes in last for overall...... If the cars are so great, why aren't they buying them up? Sales are minimally increasing, most likely because of Matthew, which is a shame. The Navigator in my opinion is junk. Why no Lincoln stars anywhere inside? Why so much hard materials? Why so little wood and chrome? It's like either they are trying to save money on all the little tedious things that add up, like Lincoln stars, Navigator engraved on door handle trim..... It doesn't read Lincoln, except for the unmistakable duel cowl dash.......

 

You're obviously not referring to the new MKZ. Would you rather have marginally increasing, or falling off a cliff sales numbers? I like how you use Navigator - by far the oldest vehicle in the lineup, and one that is being replaced next year.....previewed by a concept nonetheless - to illustrate your argument against Lincoln. Have you even seen the concept for the new one?

 

No Cadillac is significantly reducing incentives to try and keep resale value up, while Lincoln has incentives everywhere.

 

Haha, ok! Whatever you say! Even if that were true (it's not), so Cadillac sales will tumble even further?

 

Where's it say they are bad vehicles? In fact, you are providing substance to my argument that they're excellent vehicles, stated in the last sentence of the quote. We already know the sales decline has a lot to do with the cuts of programs to allow for less wealthy people to afford a Cadillac, which is good and bad. Makes the brand higher end for the wealthy, but at the cost of sales. I think the ATS and CTS and XT5 need programs for more affordability until the end of the decade at least until the brand image has spread everywhere to show prestige again.

 

Nobody here has said Cadillac makes bad vehicles....quite the contrary, I think most of us would compliment them. They are good vehicles. They're just not what the market - and more specifically traditional Cadillac buyers - want. There's a reason Cadillac's biggest sellers are by a wide margin the Escalade and SRX/XT5. And that's not me advocating rebadged and/or FWD vehicles. It's more the approach those vehicles take. Rather than ring rounding, corner carving BMWs, they're more comfort oriented luxury vehicles.

 

There will come a time where Lincoln sales will not continue to climb, soon enough. They will reach a plateau.

 

I don't see how you can argue that point. A steady stream of continually improved vehicles resulting in organic growth of the brand. How can you say sales won't continue to climb? I'd rather have slow, organic growth than one flash in the pan great seller surrounded by a lineup of duds.

 

With the exception of the outgoing MKS, old Navigator (which is down only 38 units on the year), and the transitioning (to the 2017 model) MKZ, the entire lineup is up year over year. As the MKZ transition occurs, sales of it will be up too.

 

Or there's Cadillac, where the entire lineup is down except for Escalade......including the holy grail ATS and CTS being down another 20% YOY, which they have been down that much and more every year for the last two years.