Looks like we have a couple of first reviews of the new MKZ

[LincolnLover]

You want legroom in a S550 Mustang? You had best not have legs.

Lol I know, I don't even see the point in actually having rear seats..... I'm talking about stretching it...... It could've and can be done......

[akirby]

So aggravating they would kill the perfect flagship town car, when it should've been revised for 2010

 

That pretty much tells us all we need to know.

[bdegrand]

OMG I'm gonna puke reading this thread! Are you people midgets? We got a 2010 MKZ and its tight as hell! I've been in a distant friend's new CD4 as well, and it stinks too! I'm going to reiterate here...... Lincoln needs another sedan, in RWD-bias form, in between the MKZ and Continental. I don't need a muscle Lincoln, I'd just get a CTS-V. I say they should just do the S550 platform and not wait until the new decade..... Be a mix like Lexus, then I think the brand image will begin to rise, along with better and better driving dynamics, better powertrains, better quality control, better service, better materials, better styling, etc...... Fuel economy has always been an issue and it hasn't stopped other luxury brands from building on the tradition, just a crutch for Ford to save and make the most profit........ The whole brand needs to be redone..... Needs new execs at Ford and Lincoln, they're heads are bigger than their bodies, and they only care about more money than they can count. So aggravating they would kill the perfect flagship town car, when it should've been revised for 2010, on a new platform, even the Mustang, and the LS is the biggest disgrace, should've indefinitely went on the Mustang platform and used a 5.0...... Bunch of asshats over there

Wow...somebody has anger issues with Ford. He needs to check the subject regarding the MKZ...especially when he refers to 2010!!! He needs to put on some listening ears!

[LincolnLover]

Wow...somebody has anger issues with Ford. He needs to check the subject regarding the MKZ...especially when he refers to 2010!!! He needs to put on some listening ears!

 

I'm referring to the new model like everyone! I stated we own a 2010, but I personally drive a gorgeous LS....... My anger comes from the fact I love the Limcoln brand and I think at this point they are making fools of themselves, everyone in the auto world is laughing, Johan ade Nysschen doesn't even acknowledge Lincoln, the Germans laugh, and the Japs dismiss it. It's a shame that in the last decade, every single Lincoln, with the exception of the Navigator, that was just perfect until ecoboost, I would've opted for a SC5.0, anyways, caters to "old people"...... The new ones look nice, but again still cater to old people tastes. I don't know a single peer of mine or elsewhere who looks at Lincoln, usually the way Lincoln was once viewed is the way Mercedes is now viewed..... Cadillac still carries its prestige, and damn we'll deserves it with that lineup! If they kept the Town Car, or let's say dropped in 2011, and brought it back as a 2013 in 2012 on a stretched Mustang platform, which could've been in development looking ahead from back when the way forward was cooked up in '06. We now would've had a flagship redesigned and better than ever that would be the epitome of world class premium luxury. True RWD-bias, longitudinal V8 layout, with an ecoboost option of course, and large proportions. The Continental could've still been, and came out as it is now, everything would've been perfect had the initial Zephyr/MKZ not been such garbage, and so close to MKS in size. I think the LS should've idled for '06 and picked up on the Mustang platform indefinitely, which if I was CEO, that would've been the initial platform for cost savings anyways........ They thought they were smart building is Jag cousin because of pedigree and they owned them, but in the end it was bad business, because some moron, whoever cooked up the LS, whether Nasser or Ford, or whoever..... Who did come up with the LS anyways?

[LincolnLover]

Wow...somebody has anger issues with Ford. He needs to check the subject regarding the MKZ...especially when he refers to 2010!!! He needs to put on some listening ears!

I'm referring to the new model like everyone! I stated we own a 2010, but I personally drive a gorgeous LS....... The new MKZ is too small for its overall size, ugly, except for the front, short dash to axle ratio, fwd, horrendous rear end...... My anger comes from the fact I love the Lincoln brand and I think at this point they are making fools of themselves, everyone in the auto world is laughing, Johan ade Nysschen doesn't even acknowledge Lincoln, the Germans laugh, and the Japs dismiss it. It's a shame that in the last decade, every single Lincoln, with the exception of the Navigator, that was just perfect until ecoboost, I would've opted for a SC5.0, anyways, caters to "old people"...... The new ones look nice, but again still cater to old people tastes. I don't know a single peer of mine or elsewhere who looks at Lincoln, usually the way Lincoln was once viewed is the way Mercedes is now viewed..... Cadillac still carries its prestige, and damn we'll deserves it with that lineup! If they kept the Town Car, or let's say dropped in 2011, and brought it back as a 2013 in 2012 on a stretched Mustang platform, which could've been in development looking ahead from back when the way forward was cooked up in '06. We now would've had a flagship redesigned and better than ever that would be the epitome of world class premium luxury. True RWD-bias, longitudinal V8 layout, with an ecoboost option of course, and large proportions. The Continental could've still been, and came out as it is now, everything would've been perfect had the initial Zephyr/MKZ not been such garbage, and so close to MKS in size. I think the LS should've idled for '06 and picked up on the Mustang platform indefinitely, which if I was CEO, that would've been the initial platform for cost savings anyways........ They thought they were smart building is Jag cousin because of pedigree and they owned them, but in the end it was bad business, because some moron, whoever cooked up the LS, whether Nasser or Ford, or whoever..... Who did come up with the LS anyways?

Edited June 28, 2016 by LincolnLover

[rmc523]

OMG I'm gonna puke reading this thread! Are you people midgets? We got a 2010 MKZ and its tight as hell! I've been in a distant friend's new CD4 as well, and it stinks too! I'm going to reiterate here...... Lincoln needs another sedan, in RWD-bias form, in between the MKZ and Continental. I don't need a muscle Lincoln, I'd just get a CTS-V. I say they should just do the S550 platform and not wait until the new decade..... Be a mix like Lexus, then I think the brand image will begin to rise, along with better and better driving dynamics, better powertrains, better quality control, better service, better materials, better styling, etc...... Fuel economy has always been an issue and it hasn't stopped other luxury brands from building on the tradition, just a crutch for Ford to save and make the most profit........ The whole brand needs to be redone..... Needs new execs at Ford and Lincoln, they're heads are bigger than their bodies, and they only care about more money than they can count. So aggravating they would kill the perfect flagship town car, when it should've been revised for 2010, on a new platform, even the Mustang, and the LS is the biggest disgrace, should've indefinitely went on the Mustang platform and used a 5.0...... Bunch of asshats over there

 

You can't snap a finger and have the brand redone instantly. Lincoln was largely ignored until 2013 at the earliest.

 

I'm referring to the new model like everyone! I stated we own a 2010, but I personally drive a gorgeous LS....... My anger comes from the fact I love the Limcoln brand and I think at this point they are making fools of themselves, everyone in the auto world is laughing, Johan ade Nysschen doesn't even acknowledge Lincoln, the Germans laugh, and the Japs dismiss it. It's a shame that in the last decade, every single Lincoln, with the exception of the Navigator, that was just perfect until ecoboost, I would've opted for a SC5.0, anyways, caters to "old people"...... The new ones look nice, but again still cater to old people tastes. I don't know a single peer of mine or elsewhere who looks at Lincoln, usually the way Lincoln was once viewed is the way Mercedes is now viewed..... Cadillac still carries its prestige, and damn we'll deserves it with that lineup! If they kept the Town Car, or let's say dropped in 2011, and brought it back as a 2013 in 2012 on a stretched Mustang platform, which could've been in development looking ahead from back when the way forward was cooked up in '06. We now would've had a flagship redesigned and better than ever that would be the epitome of world class premium luxury. True RWD-bias, longitudinal V8 layout, with an ecoboost option of course, and large proportions. The Continental could've still been, and came out as it is now, everything would've been perfect had the initial Zephyr/MKZ not been such garbage, and so close to MKS in size. I think the LS should've idled for '06 and picked up on the Mustang platform indefinitely, which if I was CEO, that would've been the initial platform for cost savings anyways........ They thought they were smart building is Jag cousin because of pedigree and they owned them, but in the end it was bad business, because some moron, whoever cooked up the LS, whether Nasser or Ford, or whoever..... Who did come up with the LS anyways?

 

de Nysschen doesn't acknowledge Lincoln because that would bring attention to the fact that Lincoln is gaining momentum, while Cadillac continues to crater on the vehicles in which it puts the most investment, and is saved only by Escalade.

 

You keep pointing at the past and saying "they should've done this and this and that." The past is done. Mistakes were made in the handling of PAG (nevermind creating PAG in the first place) and the ignoring of Lincoln. That can't be changed now. What we can do is look forward. As I say all the time, the Lincoln of today is not the Lincoln you will see just a few years from now. I mean look at today's Lincoln compared to Lincoln of even 4 years ago and how far they've come already. They are taking gradual, sustainable steps back toward relevance and prestige. Is this approach as glitzy and glamorous as Cadillac's approach? Perhaps not, but Lincoln is being given a strong foundation upon which to build the brand and its reputation. Compare that to Cadillac, which took the "here it is, buy it" approach. As I said before, sales of those vehicles continue cratering year after year. Lincoln will get there. It just doesn't happen overnight.

Edited June 29, 2016 by rmc523

[akirby]

Caddy fans won't admit it but Lincoln has been turning a profit for Ford for several years. There is no way Caddy has turned a profit for GM despite bigger sales because of the huge investment they made the last decade in new platforms and low volume niche models. It's not sexy but it's damn good business. So far we've seen continual improvement - my Fusion is better than any town car much less the MKZ or Continental and the first new platform is still a couple of years away.

[Gnostic]

Caddy fans won't admit it but Lincoln has been turning a profit for Ford for several years. There is no way Caddy has turned a profit for GM despite bigger sales because of the huge investment they made the last decade in new platforms and low volume niche models. It's not sexy but it's damn good business. So far we've seen continual improvement - my Fusion is better than any town car much less the MKZ or Continental and the first new platform is still a couple of years away.

Im pretty sure Caddy is making money. Selling Tahoes at 85k a pop really helps.

[fordmantpw]

Im pretty sure Caddy is making money. Selling Tahoes at 85k a pop really helps.

 

Are you taking into account the billions of $$$ they've spent on the other platforms that aren't selling?

[akirby]

New platforms are a HUGE investment and you have to sell a LOT of vehicles to recover that cost. Continental probably cost 1/3 of what the CT6 cost because it used an existing platform.

 

CTS has gone through 3 platforms since 2006. ATS was a new bespoke platform. CTS and ATS sales were tepid and prices had to be reduced. There is no way ATS and CTS paid for those platforms.

 

CT6 - new platform with a single model and modest sales potential.

 

They are/will be sharing the platforms going forward but for the last decade or so Caddy has spent a boatload of cash on new shiny platforms and now volume models. No way they were making money if the accounting was accurate.

[MKX1960]

I have been waiting and waiting, as this may be my next car (in 400 hp form) but two reviews have trickled out. Positive! it looks like both hybrid and 2.0 were tested. Take a look.

 

http://driving.ca/lincoln/mkz/reviews/road-test/first-drive-2017-lincoln-mkz

 

http://www.autoguide.com/manufacturer/lincoln/2017-lincoln-mkz-review

 

 

My favorite compliment:

 

"But here’s the thing: As much as I craved to sample the powerhouse V6, the MKZ’s standard engine — a carryover but retuned 2.0L turbo — behaved so well and spooled out so much fun that few will go pining for more."

 

A worrisome comment:

 

"And despite the MKZ’s exotic looking interior and exterior, space is an issue. Head room for front passengers is limited, and leg room for rear passengers is non-existent when the front seats are set for a six-foot tall person."

There is something about the head room in the MKZ.I tried out an 07 and with the seat adjusted where it felt right, I kept bumping my head at the top of the window every time I moved to the left. I bought an MKX instead. I also tried out a 14 when they had a drive promo for $300 Maui Jim sunglasses. The same headroom issue. The 14 was much nicer than the 07 and surprisingly quiet even with the big glass roof open.

[LincolnLover]

There is something about the head room in the MKZ.I tried out an 07 and with the seat adjusted where it felt right, I kept bumping my head at the top of the window every time I moved to the left. I bought an MKX instead. I also tried out a 14 when they had a drive promo for $300 Maui Jim sunglasses. The same headroom issue. The 14 was much nicer than the 07 and surprisingly quiet even with the big glass roof open.

Yes, there is most definitely a headroom problem, you guys just think I'm an asshole because I want RWD biased vehicles with RWD proportions, etc...... It's quite irritating..... Current Lincoln still has aways to go....

[akirby]

You guys just think I'm an asshole because I want RWD biased vehicles with RWD proportions, etc...... It's quite irritating..... Current Lincoln still has aways to go....

 

No - you can want whatever you want. Insisting that Lincoln MUST do what you want and they must do it right away or they're doomed is what makes you irritating.

Edited June 30, 2016 by akirby

[bdegrand]

I was wondering how front headroom is determined, if your car has adjustable height seats? I noticed a major difference if I adjust my MKZ seats to lowest position. Do they determine the FHR with seats at maximum height or lowest...or average of both?

Edited June 30, 2016 by bdegrand

[LincolnLover]

 

No - you can want whatever you want. Insisting that Lincoln MUST do what you want and they must do it right away or they're doomed is what makes you irritating.

Who ever insisted anything? I think they definitely need more options than FWD...... FWD has a slight advantage in winter, but the rest of the time is gross for anyone to drive. Granted, to save costs, there's nothing wrong with the MKZ, MKC, even MKX being FWD biased, as long as there's a LS replacement, Town Car replacement, and even follow Cadillac's lead a little bit and have the Continental, like Caddy is keeping the XTS. RWD SUV "explorer", and 5.0TT V8 optional Navigator 42mpg highway...... That's a winning lineup as long as they can market and design the right way. I think that Lincoln in current form will not stretch beyond a couple hundred thousand in sales, unless they change. I'm hoping they build up enough cash by 2020 and open the decade and have some real fun. Just had my appraiser come do one of my properties and he has a 2008 Town Car..... Fucking thing looks new and better than the MKS ever could, and definitely gives the new Continental a run for its money. If only they made it less old looking and modern interior, AWD, I think sales would've regained momentum. They let it fall way behind the German's, 2003 should've been way more modern for a flagship. I'm blaming back 10-15 years ago

[LincolnLover]

I was wondering how front headroom is determined, if your car has adjustable height seats? I noticed a major difference if I adjust my MKZ seats to lowest position. Do they determine the FHR with seats at maximum height or lowest...or average of both?

 

I don't know, but I'm 6'4" so if I go to the floor, legs are messed up, and I can't push my seat back if someone is sitting behind me...... I do like our MKZ, but absolutely is weak on luxury.

Edited July 2, 2016 by LincolnLover

[MKX1960]

I don't know, but I'm 6'3" so if I go to the floor, legs are messed up, and I can't push my seat back if someone is sitting behind me...... I do like our MKZ, but absolutely is weak on luxury.

Did you shrink? You just got through saying you are 6' 4" in another post.

[LincolnLover]

Did you shrink? You just got through saying you are 6' 4" in another post.

Oh I'm so sorry about that, you caught me! I lie about my height so much that I couldn't keep it straight! If you must know my dr says I'm 6'3" and 3/4 and I asked if he drove a Lincoln too....... I usually say 6'3"-6'4"........

Thanks for catching me in my one of many lies!

[LincolnLover]

There, does that satisfy the committee? I edited to 6'3" and 3/4.......

[Extreme4x4]

LL, just to let you know, the current CTS has rear seat leg room of 35.4" and a wheelbase of 114". In other words, your "needs RWD proportions and bias to be a real roomy luxury car like Cadillacs," is BS. The CTS has the wheelbase of a full size car (like the Town Car was) and the back seat room of a compact. The ATS that you aspire to own has rear seat leg room of 33.5", which is great for your kids................. no adults need apply.

 

GO RWD !!!

[LincolnLover]

LL, just to let you know, the current CTS has rear seat leg room of 35.4" and a wheelbase of 114". In other words, your "needs RWD proportions and bias to be a real roomy luxury car like Cadillacs," is BS. The CTS has the wheelbase of a full size car (like the Town Car was) and the back seat room of a compact. The ATS that you aspire to own has rear seat leg room of 33.5", which is great for your kids................. no adults need apply.

 

GO RWD !!!

I'm single, so.......

[Extreme4x4]

So...................... you were complaining about how horribly small the back seat of the MKZ is.

 

I guess you don't understand the reason for my post.

[LincolnLover]

So...................... you were complaining about how horribly small the back seat of the MKZ is.

 

I guess you don't understand the reason for my post.

You're a car enthusiast, so how can you possibly compare a vehicle sold as compact, ATS, to a midsize MKZ? That's not a fair comparison....... I'm not buying it as a family/friends car, a sport car. I want a CT6 to cruise around in with friends/family....

[Extreme4x4]

The CTS is a midsize, with the wheelbase that the EPA classifies as a full size car. It has 35.4" of rear legroom. I guess you missed that part.

 

The irony was, rear seat room made the MKZ a POS..................... yet the perfectly proportioned RWD Cadillac CTS is significantly smaller in the rear seat. But it is ok to have a small back seat, I guess, when you have RWD.

 

Ok.

 

While I will acknowledge that the CTS / ATS are better drivers cars.................. they are not necessarily better luxury cars. It depends on what you want a luxury car to be. The MKZ in Sport mode is very sporty and handles very well. We had it set on Sport in the corners as I love handling. On the rougher portions we put it on comfort and enjoyed a nice comfortable ride. The car handled much better than I thought it would. As I am experienced in driving FWD / RWD / AWD vehicles, both in spirited driving, winter driving, regular driving, I am well aware of the handling differences. However, in my luxury car, I do not want a rough ride.................. and that has been a complaint in the ATS and CTS. The car is too performance oriented at the price of a luxurious ride. I will never take my luxury sedan to "The Ring," but I guess if I did, then the CTS / ATS would be the cars to bring.

 

You love the CTS / ATS trade-off, and that is good for you. The reality is the buying public does not agree with you. This is why ATS / CTS sales have fallen and fallen. They do not agree with the trade-offs made.

 

BTW, I have built and raced Mustangs, in SCCA and at the drags (prefer SCCA). Have raced my '94 Lightning and my '2001 Lightning. Have built and heavily 4wheeled (rock crawling) my 1993 Eddie Bauer 4-door Explorer, and co owned and wrenched in our Auto Repair and Towing business (closed in 2003 to move back to AZ). I am no novice in any of this. This is why I get a kick out of your definitive statements and facts of what is better than what.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Extreme4x4

[LincolnLover]

The CTS is a midsize, with the wheelbase that the EPA classifies as a full size car. It has 35.4" of rear legroom. I guess you missed that part.

 

The irony was, rear seat room made the MKZ a POS..................... yet the perfectly proportioned RWD Cadillac CTS is significantly smaller in the rear seat. But it is ok to have a small back seat, I guess, when you have RWD.

 

Ok.

 

While I will acknowledge that the CTS / ATS are better drivers cars.................. they are not necessarily better luxury cars. It depends on what you want a luxury car to be. The MKZ in Sport mode is very sporty and handles very well. We had it set on Sport in the corners as I love handling. On the rougher portions we put it on comfort and enjoyed a nice comfortable ride. The car handled much better than I thought it would. As I am experienced in driving FWD / RWD / AWD vehicles, both in spirited driving, winter driving, regular driving, I am well aware of the handling differences. However, in my luxury car, I do not want a rough ride.................. and that has been a complaint in the ATS and CTS. The car is too performance oriented at the price of a luxurious ride. I will never take my luxury sedan to "The Ring," but I guess if I did, then the CTS / ATS would be the cars to bring.

 

You love the CTS / ATS trade-off, and that is good for you. The reality is the buying public does not agree with you. This is why ATS / CTS sales have fallen and fallen. They do not agree with the trade-offs made.

 

BTW, I have built and raced Mustangs, in SCCA and at the drags (prefer SCCA). Have raced my '94 Lightning and my '2001 Lightning. Have built and heavily 4wheeled (rock crawling) my 1993 Eddie Bauer 4-door Explorer, and co owned and wrenched in our Auto Repair and Towing business (closed in 2003 to move back to AZ). I am no novice in any of this. This is why I get a kick out of your definitive statements and facts of what is better than what.

Congratulations on your successes..... Everything you just said is your opinion...... I won't argue that the Cadillac's are geared a bit too much toward performance, but that's to change, as the CT6 is definitely not a performance monster. How could you say that RWD offers a rougher ride? That's most certainly not true, I've been in RWD/FWD/AWD/4WD vehicles, and they all are different. Town Car anyone? S600 Maybach? BMW 760li? Hyundai Genesis? Lexus LS? Cadillac CT6? Should I keep going?

 

I find it very funny how you all are coming to Lincoln's defense and really believe in your minds that they compete with the likes of Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Audi, even Cadillac. I see nothing or feel nothing to say otherwise. I don't see any type of high end interiors, gadgets or features, just industry standards that SHOULD be in there. The ride qaulity is absolutely not superior to anything German or Japanese, even though I hate anything from Asia. It's quite funny how it's turned around to be convenient for Lincoln, but bad for every other luxury company. I doubt any vehicle I buy will be in the shop more than the MKZ..... Cadillac's ATS/CTS sales may have fallen slightly, due to stagnancy, with 2017 I see an increase in sales. I do see Lincoln catching up or surpassing ANY other brand by the end of the decade. If Lincoln can't catch up, "oh that's ok, we're a boutique brand" but if they go huge, "just as we planned".....

Edited July 5, 2016 by LincolnLover