The Lincoln Way-Plan to Woo Customers

[rmc523]

 

The first of McCarthy's "Four Ps of Marketing", namely product. Product is the most noteworthy lacuna in Lincoln's recent attempts to position itself as a luxury brand. While some elements of the brand may be considered "luxurious", at this point Lincoln lacks a full range of legitimate luxury vehicles.

Have you been in a current Lincoln product?

[BORG]

Maybe that's what they are aiming for, slotting another car under it. It's sort of how I remember they pushed the LS into the $50K right before they introduced the MKZ. I priced one MKZ loaded for upper $59K, problem is at that price point there's other brands with more cache.

 

 

Are they really? Maybe a crossover like the Buick Enclave, but a compact car sounds like a very bad idea in the US...maybe China. Compacts are for people who want to buy into a brand they aspire to own but can't really afford, and Lincoln definitely isn't an aspirational brand like Mercedes or BMW, particularly among younger customers who typically buy them. MKZ is already very cramped for its class so for now they just need to make sure the next generation delivers on the basic needs of that customer while earning its higher price tag.

 

It's hard to measure Lincoln's progress entirely in sales growth. Generally speaking sales growth for Lincoln is pretty small for a car company with many new products, MKX and MKC are still very light sellers compared to the competition and MKX hasn't added any additional customers to the fold. That's also true of MKZ which has actually seen a sales decline since the newest model. However, the cars are certainly better, often more expensive, and who knows how much more money they are bringing in (although the investment is certainly bigger which offsets that).

 

I do agree that Lincoln needs to focus on its core assets and evolve from there, but I do feel the ceiling for Lincoln is certainly much lower than other luxury makers which have a little more customer flexibility.

 

As for Navigator, very similar to Escalade, this is a brand within a brand and brings in a completely different customer, but it's a great asset to have. I do believe however that a Navigator and Continental customer are more similar than a CT6 and Escalade customer...mostly because the Escalade is a VERY crude piece of cake decorating while the CT6 is far more substantive. The Navigator and Continental have a much more consistent story and the Navigator will certainly be a much more bespoke product (although the concept looks pretty bland and ungainly).

Edited July 21, 2016 by BORG

[rmc523]

We know another sedan is coming. Presumably it's a larger one....however....my theory is that the "larger" one is in fact a larger, next-gen CD6-based Conti. With the MKZ moving upward into Conti's current space, and a new sedan slotting under the new bigger MKZ, with this new one being similar in size to the current MKZ.

[silvrsvt]

 

 

Are they really? Maybe a crossover like the Buick Enclave, but a compact car sounds like a very bad idea in the US...maybe China. Compacts are for people who want to buy into a brand they aspire to own but can't really afford, and Lincoln definitely isn't an aspirational brand like Mercedes or BMW, particularly among younger customers who typically buy them. MKZ is already very cramped for its class so for now they just need to make sure the next generation delivers on the basic needs of that customer while earning its higher price tag.

 

 

 

 

You have quit being so narrow minded....look at something like the BMW 2/3 Series vs the MKZ...the MKZ is a longer car

 

I'm thinking something with a 108 inch wheel base and a overall length of around 180 inches or so...a larger Focus sedan

 

Not a subcompact, but a compact car. I'm thinking something like an A4, Lexus IS, BMW 2/3 Series and like...not a tiny car.

[jcartwright99]

 

The first of McCarthy's "Four Ps of Marketing", namely product. Product is the most noteworthy lacuna in Lincoln's recent attempts to position itself as a luxury brand. While some elements of the brand may be considered "luxurious", at this point Lincoln lacks a full range of legitimate luxury vehicles.

 

Since I was more of a tech guy, I may have fallen asleep through that part of my marketing class! I will agree that Lincoln hasn't had true luxurious elements in previous years (almost just going through the motions) but I really think this is the breakthrough year. I know since the process started some years back, more focus has been on cleaning up the dealership/client experience and how Lincoln is branding itself. They had to get rid of the years of neglect and negative perception. Since nobody (ok, maybe somebody on here has), has driven a production ready Continental we can't make judgments yet. If we make an assumption that it will be another step forward from the MKX and MKZ, I think they will be setup with the product they need to continue to grow and impress folks. I think Lincoln, while on an extremely difficult road, is about to bare the fruits of labor that Ford has been putting into it for the past 5 years or so. I have said this before and I will say it again, a smart and pragmatic approach to luxury vehicle market. They aren't trying to be BMW or Merc, like some makers are chasing (I give two craps about the Ring). They are carving their own niche. I think Lincoln is finally serious about taking back what Lexus took from them 20 some years ago. I think focusing on high technology,luxurious, powerful vehicles that are quiet, ride nice but also can effortlessly flex it muscles when need and no fall over itself in a corner is a exactly where Lincoln needs to be. I "think" that is where they are headed but we'll see.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was talking about todays models...but in all honesty I don't think a MKZ is worth anywhere from 10-15K more then a loaded Fusion. They have two options that aren't on the Fusion (AWD vectoring and the full sunroof) but there isn't enough separation options wise where most people would see it. The Pricing of the MKZ is getting to the point that Lincoln can fit a smaller car under it...

 

 

 

 

I think for the 2.0t and hybrid models, its a bit closer than the Sport vs. 3.0t. The 3.0t is going to be the real gem here. No disrespect to the Fusion as it is a good car but when most of your interior points are shared with the Fusion S, there is a lot of ground to cover. The titanium/platinum while nice is still a fusion interior and materials. It is really tough to match them up option per option.

 

I think you get more in the Lincoln than just AWD vectoring and the full sun roof. Really you kind of have to break it down Titanium vs 2.0t 200a. That is roughly a 6k difference between the two. There are many more features that are included in the Lincoln than in the fusion for 6k. Taking looks out of the equation because that is subjective, I just created a list off of the top of my head. I know I am missing some but don't have time to fully vet this out. Personally, I think I would pay for those 5 things. Again, this takes nothing away from the Fusion but shows that there are areas where "Luxury" can really be added.

 

1.Ride Control Suspension

2. Active Noise Control- Quieter

3. Higher quality interior (leather, wood, touch points)

4. Better warranty

5. Better Dealership experience.

[2b2]

...I'm thinking something with a 108 inch wheel base and a overall length of around 180 inches or so...a larger Focus sedan

 

Not a subcompact, but a compact car. I'm thinking something like an A4, Lexus IS, BMW 2/3 Series and like...not a tiny car.

given that imho Lincoln needs to keep moving towards a $40k starting point;

I asked, "Self, how they gonna make a smaller than midsize that starts at more than now?"

 

I speculated:

make it a specialty car ......... by

offering only sport and electrified variants; pricing ABOVE the base Z (or C)

&

keeping in mind what HAS BEEN (until CUVpocalype) the "Highest Volume Lux Segment"

111" wlb, 182~" ovl >> compare to 3/4ers and friendz, incldg the Tesla III

Edited July 21, 2016 by 2b2

[akirby]

 

Since I was more of a tech guy, I may have fallen asleep through that part of my marketing class! I will agree that Lincoln hasn't had true luxurious elements in previous years (almost just going through the motions) but I really think this is the breakthrough year. I know since the process started some years back, more focus has been on cleaning up the dealership/client experience and how Lincoln is branding itself. They had to get rid of the years of neglect and negative perception. Since nobody (ok, maybe somebody on here has), has driven a production ready Continental we can't make judgments yet. If we make an assumption that it will be another step forward from the MKX and MKZ, I think they will be setup with the product they need to continue to grow and impress folks. I think Lincoln, while on an extremely difficult road, is about to bare the fruits of labor that Ford has been putting into it for the past 5 years or so. I have said this before and I will say it again, a smart and pragmatic approach to luxury vehicle market. They aren't trying to be BMW or Merc, like some makers are chasing (I give two craps about the Ring). They are carving their own niche. I think Lincoln is finally serious about taking back what Lexus took from them 20 some years ago. I think focusing on high technology,luxurious, powerful vehicles that are quiet, ride nice but also can effortlessly flex it muscles when need and no fall over itself in a corner is a exactly where Lincoln needs to be. I "think" that is where they are headed but we'll see.

 

 

 

I think for the 2.0t and hybrid models, its a bit closer than the Sport vs. 3.0t. The 3.0t is going to be the real gem here. No disrespect to the Fusion as it is a good car but when most of your interior points are shared with the Fusion S, there is a lot of ground to cover. The titanium/platinum while nice is still a fusion interior and materials. It is really tough to match them up option per option.

 

I think you get more in the Lincoln than just AWD vectoring and the full sun roof. Really you kind of have to break it down Titanium vs 2.0t 200a. That is roughly a 6k difference between the two. There are many more features that are included in the Lincoln than in the fusion for 6k. Taking looks out of the equation because that is subjective, I just created a list off of the top of my head. I know I am missing some but don't have time to fully vet this out. Personally, I think I would pay for those 5 things. Again, this takes nothing away from the Fusion but shows that there are areas where "Luxury" can really be added.

 

1.Ride Control Suspension

2. Active Noise Control- Quieter

3. Higher quality interior (leather, wood, touch points)

4. Better warranty

5. Better Dealership experience.

 

What about Revel Audio, 360 degree camera? Or is that only on the MKZ?

[rmc523]

I believe those features are only on the MKX right now......hmm the Revel system mayve made it to MKZ, I don't remember.

[aneekr]

Have you been in a current Lincoln product?

 

Yes, i was a passenger in a 2016 Lincoln MKC 'Uber' vehicle recently in Chicago (I am not able to drive due to medical/health restrictions). This MKC was decent, but not a bona fide luxury vehicle.

[rmc523]

 

Yes, i was a passenger in a 2016 Lincoln MKC 'Uber' vehicle recently in Chicago (I am not able to drive due to medical/health restrictions). This MKC was decent, but not a bona fide luxury vehicle.

What in your opinion was it lacking?

[PREMiERdrum]

 

This MKC was decent, but not a bona fide luxury vehicle.

 

Do you have any experience with the Lexus NX or Audi Q3 that you could compare to? This statement should be qualified as compared to the MKC's segment peers...

 

(Edit: Corrected A3 to Q3. Sorry, aneekr!)

Edited July 22, 2016 by PREMiERdrum

[akirby]

Do you have any experience with the Lexus NX or Audi A3 that you could compare to? This statement should be qualified as compared to the MKC's segment peers...

 

He means compared to a an AMG S Class costing 3 times as much

[aneekr]

 

Do you have any experience with the Lexus NX or Audi A3 that you could compare to? This statement should be qualified as compared to the MKC's segment peers...

 

I don't have any experience with NX or A3, but I did drive an Audi Q5 back in 2013 (Q5 is the brand's entry in the "premium compact crossover" segment). As Blue Oval Forums members know, I'm not a fan of crossovers in general. With that context, the Q5 is among the best I've experienced in terms of ride, interior design, handling, build quality, and powertrain refinement.

 

What in your opinion was it lacking?

 

As a passenger, the main demerits were:

1.) Ride quality: way too much harshness was transmitted through the suspension and chassis, with frequent side to side motions on bumpy Chicago streets and some of the rougher stretches of Lake Shore Drive. The resulting head toss was really fatiguing for an old geezer like me!

2.) Seat comfort: Poor thigh support was the main issue here. The Uber driver encouraged me to use the power seat adjustments as desired, but they didn't help much. After the 35 minute Uber ride, my legs were aching.

 

Beyond that, MKC was a decent vehicle as I mentioned before, but certainly not one of the better compact crossovers.

 

Regardless of its merits otherwise, MKC can't be considered a legitimate luxury vehicle with these flaws. More plebian "Uber" cars I've experienced like Camrys, Accords, and Subaru Foresters (to name a few) were notably more comfortable for me as a front seat passenger.

Edited July 22, 2016 by aneekr

[sullynd]

Q5 is the brand's entry in the "premium compact crossover" segment

It is? What do you consider the Q3? The Q5 lines up with the MkX.

[akirby]

It is? What do you consider the Q3? The Q5 lines up with the MkX.

Exactly.

[aneekr]

It is? What do you consider the Q3? The Q5 lines up with the MkX.

 

Audi's Q3 and Q5 are both compact crossovers, covering opposite ends of that segment in terms of size. Q3 uses VW Group's PQ35 platform and is about the size of a Volkswagen Tiguan, which uses the same platform. Q5 uses the MLB/MLP platform that debuted with the Audi A5 and A4.

 

MKC slots between Q3 and Q5 in size, though it's closer to the latter (MKC is about 7" longer than Q3 and about 3" shorter than Q5). MKX is about 8" longer than Q5.

[RichardJensen]

 

MKC slots between Q3 and Q5 in size

 

I think price is a better touch point when it comes to ride quality and other amenities.

[rmc523]

 

I don't have any experience with NX or A3, but I did drive an Audi Q5 back in 2013 (Q5 is the brand's entry in the "premium compact crossover" segment). As Blue Oval Forums members know, I'm not a fan of crossovers in general. With that context, the Q5 is among the best I've experienced in terms of ride, interior design, handling, build quality, and powertrain refinement.

 

 

As a passenger, the main demerits were:

1.) Ride quality: way too much harshness was transmitted through the suspension and chassis, with frequent side to side motions on bumpy Chicago streets and some of the rougher stretches of Lake Shore Drive. The resulting head toss was really fatiguing for an old geezer like me!

2.) Seat comfort: Poor thigh support was the main issue here. The Uber driver encouraged me to use the power seat adjustments as desired, but they didn't help much. After the 35 minute Uber ride, my legs were aching.

 

Beyond that, MKC was a decent vehicle as I mentioned before, but certainly not one of the better compact crossovers.

 

Regardless of its merits otherwise, MKC can't be considered a legitimate luxury vehicle with these flaws. More plebian "Uber" cars I've experienced like Camrys, Accords, and Subaru Foresters (to name a few) were notably more comfortable for me as a front seat passenger.

To each his own, I suppose. I didn't find either point you made to be an issue at all when I did a thorough review of the MKC after taking advantage of the Date Night program...

 

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/56975-my-lincoln-date-night-experience-with-the-2015-mkc/?fromsearch=1

 

There's a link to it if you're interested.

[sullynd]

 

Audi's Q3 and Q5 are both compact crossovers, covering opposite ends of that segment in terms of size..

But that's not what you said.

 

Q5 is the brand's entry in the "premium compact crossover" segment

So what segment do you consider the Q3? You didn't know it existed, did you?

[aneekr]

But that's not what you said.

 

 

So what segment do you consider the Q3? You didn't know it existed, did you?

 

Q5 is the Audi's "premium compact crossover" (which is what I said in a previous post); Q3 is the brand's "entry compact crossover". The MQB based Q2, when it comes out in late 2016, will provide Audi with an entry in the "mini crossover" segment to compete with Opel Mokka/Buick Encore and Mini Countryman.

 

Yes, I know Audi Q3 exists.

Edited July 22, 2016 by aneekr

[RichardJensen]

 

Q3 is the brand's "entry compact crossover".

 

And its starting MSRP is still about a thousand bucks higher than the MKC, so like I said before, it's probably the more apt comparison in terms of luxury and refinement.

[bzcat]

 

And its starting MSRP is still about a thousand bucks higher than the MKC, so like I said before, it's probably the more apt comparison in terms of luxury and refinement.

 

Audi no doubt introduced Q3 (as did BMW and Mercedes with X1 and GLA) as a per-emptive strike to cover the lower end of the MSRP from NX, MKC, RDX and the likes. But MKC is still more comparable to Q5 in MSRP and size over the bulk of the model range when similarly equipped.

 

For the sake of comparing apples to apples, I'm just going to limit this to AWD models (because Q5 is AWD only). Lincoln has 4 trim levels vs. Audi's 3 levels so there is also an inherent gap when looking strictly at base MSRP without taking into account the options needed to bring the trim level to identical equipped.

 

Q3 Premium AWD $33,900 (the FWD model starts at $31,800)

Q3 Premium Plus AWD $36,600

Q3 Prestige AWD $39,200

 

MKC Premiere 2.0T AWD $35,130 (FWD starts at $32,720)

MKC Select 2.0T AWD $38,125 vs.

MKC Reserve 2.0T AWD $41,895

MKC Black Label 2.0T AWD $47,880

 

Q5 Premium 2.0T $40,900

Q5 Premium Plus 2.0T $43,150

 

MKC Select 2.3T AWD $39,265

MKC Reserve 2.3T AWD $43,035

MKC Black Label 2.3T AWD $49,020

 

Q5 Premium Plus 3.0T $46,400

Q5 Prestige 3.0T $53,200

Edited July 22, 2016 by bzcat

[BORG]

I don't think Lincoln translates well to lower priced smaller products based on cheaper Ford platforms, it's very hard to meet expectations there. I immediately disliked the MKC when I drove one, it felt and sounded exactly like an Escape and the only thing that was luxurious about it to me was the design. The cheapest Ford Edge feels substantially more luxurious than an MKC, let alone the MKX. It didn't sound quieter, smoother, more refined, or solid and substantial. However, by all accounts, the MKC is one of the best in its class and certainly offers far more luxury and technology. Lincoln isn't doing anything wrong with the MKC, but like Caddy it's struggling to convince new customers or old customers because it doesn't successfully appeal to either...and that's what I expect would happen with a compact Lincoln which is already a very weak segment outside of the 3-series in the US. Lincoln isn't hip enough to sell to the young folk that buy them, you would basically have a better executed Verano (which I'm sure China can use).

Edited July 22, 2016 by BORG

[2b2]

among a bunch of other things

I'd love to the (nextgen)MKC(replacement) have the 30-waay Perfect seats in its toptrims

[RichardJensen]

 

Audi no doubt introduced Q3 (as did BMW and Mercedes with X1 and GLA) as a per-emptive strike to cover the lower end of the MSRP from NX, MKC, RDX and the likes. But MKC is still more comparable to Q5 in MSRP and size over the bulk of the model range when similarly equipped.

 

For the sake of comparing apples to apples, I'm just going to limit this to AWD models (because Q5 is AWD only). Lincoln has 4 trim levels vs. Audi's 3 levels so there is also an inherent gap when looking strictly at base MSRP without taking into account the options needed to bring the trim level to identical equipped.

 

Q3 Premium AWD $33,900 (the FWD model starts at $31,800)

Q3 Premium Plus AWD $36,600

Q3 Prestige AWD $39,200

 

MKC Premiere 2.0T AWD $35,130 (FWD starts at $32,720)

MKC Select 2.0T AWD $38,125 vs.

MKC Reserve 2.0T AWD $41,895

MKC Black Label 2.0T AWD $47,880

 

Q5 Premium 2.0T $40,900

Q5 Premium Plus 2.0T $43,150

 

MKC Select 2.3T AWD $39,265

MKC Reserve 2.3T AWD $43,035

MKC Black Label 2.3T AWD $49,020

 

Q5 Premium Plus 3.0T $46,400

Q5 Prestige 3.0T $53,200

 

Mmm. I'm not quite sure I can back that logic. I don't think you want to handicap the MKC because Lincoln offers more options than Audi (powertrain upgrade being the biggie).

 

Flip side of that, though, is that Edmunds put the ATP for the MKC at like $44k vs. $38k for the Q3.