silvrsvt Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/can-fiat-fill-fcas-small-car-void Hmm not like you couldn't see this coming.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Exactly............................................... Such a shame that Fiat cars are crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Exactly............................................... Such a shame that Fiat cars are crap. That is giving crap a bad name. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 In same article, says a dealer group bought a few and closed 2, a Mitsu and a Fiat store, saying "Fiat is dead". The dealer who want Fiats will use them as "bait and switch" saying "why do you want this tiny car, you can get a bigger used one [and pay higher interest rates]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Sergio Marchionne should be fired for his comments about the 200 and dart. Even if you thought your products were POS's, to actually publicly state that is a deriliction of your duty as CEO. If you have no faith in your own products, how is a consumer expected to. The current 200 was far better than the outgoing model and it certainly could not have been worse than the Hyundai rental I recently had. I'm sure everyone can recall the days when people considered Hyundai an inferior brand. Now look at them. It's no wonder FCA's car sales tanked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) The old style 200/Avengers sold with huge rebates, the new 200 was released and Sergio folks to pay higher prices. But, ever since the days of "buy a car, get a check", Mopar buyers won't sign unless they get a huge incentive. Now, after spending millions to retool for the new 200, plant is getting more money to re-retool for trucks. Edited October 5, 2016 by 630land 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Fiat should have been in Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge dealers from the beginning. Maybe they should bring that Mexican Neon in the USA as a Fiat or bring the Fiat versions of the Dart over here from China. It is probably too late for them anyway as they need a "Hail Mary" pass to survive and I don't really see any product that they make in Europe or South America that could do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 (edited) The old style 200/Avengers sold with huge rebates, the new 200 was released and Sergio folks to pay higher prices. But, ever since the days of "buy a car, get a check", Mopar buyers won't sign unless they get a huge incentive. Now, after spending millions to retool for the new 200, plant is getting more money to re-retool for trucks. how is that any different than ford and MAP? the only difference is FCA will complete it's conversion next year and Ford won't be done until late 2018. Edited October 6, 2016 by Biker16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 how is that any different than ford and MAP? the only difference is FCA will complete it's conversion next year and Ford won't be done until late 2018. WTF are you talking about? Ford isn't starting anything major in MAP until 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 WTF are you talking about? Ford isn't starting anything major in MAP until 2018. He just meant retooling MAP for Focus then having to spend more money to retool it for trucks. The difference is Focus isn't going away - it's moving to Mexico - and MAP would have to be retooled for the new Focus platform anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I'm pretty sure in his own professional way, Sergio was softening the blow by telling everybody they were mistakes and that's why they couldn't sell and should be gone. I can't imagine what it must be like to work there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 "How is that any different?" pfffftt Well, for one thing, at least Ford isn't dropping Focus and Fusion, hoping for a partner to bail tem out. Oh, and Ford didn't go belly up and get Govt bailout, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Fiat should have been in Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge dealers from the beginning. Maybe they should bring that Mexican Neon in the USA as a Fiat or bring the Fiat versions of the Dart over here from China. It is probably too late for them anyway as they need a "Hail Mary" pass to survive and I don't really see any product that they make in Europe or South America that could do that. The Mexican Neon will be here MY '19 with Chrysler running gear, US crash standards and interior. Some side notes 2 Chrysler CUVs (midsize, small and fwd based) will also arrive at this time. The 200 is still in-the-air as a contract car, Of course that if FCA survives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 - and MAP would have to be retooled for the new Focus platform anyway. Who said that? How would you know if the new car would need anywhere near the tooling that will be required to build the ranger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 (edited) Who said that? How would you know if the new car would need anywhere near the tooling that will be required to build the ranger? And how do you know it wouldn't? Most of the work they would need to do in final is on the chassis side, and even then it's not as much as you might think. They definitely need to expand some clearances for the extended length of a truck, and some expansion in the suspension area to account for frames instead of just subframes. Semi-educated guess, total of 3 months of retooling time. They're already doing work in stamping and paint. They've painted a few bodies already. Edited October 6, 2016 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Who said that? How would you know if the new car would need anywhere near the tooling that will be required to build the ranger? Now you're just arguing to be arguing. Knock it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Now you're just arguing to be arguing. Knock it off. Really? This is the difference, FCA will move from cars to trucks in 12 month ford will take 3 years from announcement to conversion. during those 3 years they will move from 3 shifts to likely1 shift idling workers paying them not to work, during this time the 600+ million in Capital will sit underutilized. while ford will bleed red on every vehicle sold. . And how do you know it wouldn't? Most of the work they would need to do in final is on the chassis side, and even then it's not as much as you might think. They definitely need to expand some clearances for the extended length of a truck, and some expansion in the suspension area to account for frames instead of just subframes. Semi-educated guess, total of 3 months of retooling time. They're already doing work in stamping and paint. They've painted a few bodies already. https://uaw.org/app/uploads/2015/11/reducedFINAL-FORD-HOURLY-11-9-15-1229p-FINAL-with-numbers-p24-headings-page-6-charts-p25.pdf 700 million dollar investment for the 2019 Ranger. Ford spent 550 million to completely gut and refurbish MAP to build the focus. this included new final and chassis lines from the Floor to the roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 Now you're just arguing to be arguing. Knock it off. Really? This is the difference, FCA will move from cars to trucks in 12 month ford will take 3 years from announcement to conversion. during those 3 years they will move from 3 shifts to likely1 shift idling workers paying them not to work, during this time the 600+ million in Capital will sit underutilized. while ford will bleed red on every vehicle sold. . And how do you know it wouldn't? Most of the work they would need to do in final is on the chassis side, and even then it's not as much as you might think. They definitely need to expand some clearances for the extended length of a truck, and some expansion in the suspension area to account for frames instead of just subframes. Semi-educated guess, total of 3 months of retooling time. They're already doing work in stamping and paint. They've painted a few bodies already. https://uaw.org/app/uploads/2015/11/reducedFINAL-FORD-HOURLY-11-9-15-1229p-FINAL-with-numbers-p24-headings-page-6-charts-p25.pdf 700 million dollar investment for the 2019 Ranger. Ford spent 550 million to completely gut and refurbish MAP to build the focus. this included new final and chassis lines from the Floor to the roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) I think you will find that the previous decisions were a mixture of DOE low interest rate loans, diverted money form Ford's VEBA obligations in return for more US jobs aand needing to offset US built Taurus. A lot has changes in the last four years and now time to move on. Michigan was a dead plant after BOF Explorer was ceased, I can understand why Ford wanted to re-purpose it for more fuel efficient cars, it played well in the press at the time.. Edited October 7, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 I think you will find that the previous decisions were a mixture of DOE low interest rate loans, diverted money form Ford's VEBA obligations in return for more US jobs aand needing to offset US built Taurus. A lot has changes in the last four years and now time to move on. Michigan was a dead plant after BOF Explorer was ceased, I can understand why Ford wanted to re-purpose it for more fuel efficient cars, it played well in the press at the time.. Expedition, not explorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 7, 2016 Author Share Posted October 7, 2016 This is the difference, FCA will move from cars to trucks in 12 month ford will take 3 years from announcement to conversion. during those 3 years they will move from 3 shifts to likely1 shift idling workers paying them not to work, during this time the 600+ million in Capital will sit underutilized. while ford will bleed red on every vehicle sold. . Yet again you fail to realize that FCA will have NO small compact nor a midsize sedan to compete in the market...where as Ford is winding down production on the Focus for the next year and half or so till it moves to Mexico with a significantly redesigned platform and even a Electric/Hybrid car/CUV built at the same plant? Then it will have a much more profitable mid-sized truck and SUV coming out at around the same time being built at MAP? So its ok for FCA to leave a combined 4.7 million market for one that is only 3.6 Million? alrightly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 In other words, if Ford was cancelling Focus they could start building something new in MAP in 12 months also. Apples and Oranges. Look - we get that Ford is moving slowly and that they're leaving sales and profits on the table in the meantime. But there's nothing that can be done about that at this point so stop whining about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 (edited) Well stated, and TTAC has a good series articles called "mid size death watch" Not that the segment is dying, but that some other models are gone too, not just 200. Kizachi, Galant. Camry sales were down at a higher percent than Fusion. Corolla out sold it! . Edited October 7, 2016 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 To be fair, who the hell has ever heard of the Kizachi, and Galant has been totally irrelevant for years already. I'm surprised it's lasted this long, as well as Mitsu in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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